"I guess the rest depends on the resolution of the system and" - I think it is more likely to depend on whether or not the connected components have well designed and functioning internal filtering. You wonder if some times a blown power supply cap(cheap to replace and larger caps running above 300v don't last forever)or marginal design is what leads people to believe in the mega-buck power conditioning methods? |
I know a great power-cord, and I can play Smoke-On-The-Water if I move it up and down the neck of my air guitar...
steve |
What's a "powder cord"? That sounds ultra-tweaky. I bet powder cords were real popular with the 70's disco crowd :) Ok, I'll stop... |
Jeffreybear; I would guess why I get such improvement is I live in a 94 unit complex.--Can't be doing any of that there ded.-lines,thing, here. I guess the rest depends on the resolution of the system and ones desire along with their own ears.To me spending big bucks yeilds big results. There is worse advice floating around the site than this. Reading pro and con on anything is good. I don't pretend to be anybody's guru. BUT; I do think if George or Kara came to my house they could easily hear what I hear.(The Hellen Keller ref.) |
This will all change once Bryston markets a Unique Power Cord! If they have no opportunity to make a dollar, sure their power cords are fine. Tee Hee.. Power Cords do make a difference. Try them.
Chris |
"Audiogon is the only place I know of where the majority seem to encourage spending money on fancy power cords..." Oh no. There are even-more PCs-make-HUGE-differences people on Audio Asylums.
On the sound of powercords, I believe that EVERY change to a music-reproduction system changes its sound. Those changes can vary in degree from 'audible to anyone with ears' to VERY subtle and audible to only the most-golden of GEAs.
But I have 2 objections to the way people talk about these differences. My first gripe is to the folk who believe that if THEY can't hear or especially measure it, a difference doesn't exist. They laugh VERY loudly at my second group, those who use terms like huge and even Hellen Keller could hear it. I believe that differences that are subtle enough that MANY of us can't hear them are by definition NOT huge or anything of the sort. (I also believe that many members of the 2nd group have never CAREFULLY compared the sounds of PCs. IOW, I believe that their comparisons are highly faulty, unreliable, and not repeatable. Notice that I didn't accuse ANY OF YOU nice folk of that, so pls don't yell at me.)
Frankly, I suspect one would get more aural benefit from using IEC connectors that grip more tightly, or perhaps from the use of a contact enhancer, than from expensive cords.
I've spent my money for aftermarket PCs, but mine cost $7 and $10, being Volex-brand shielded 14g. cords from Carlton-Bates Co. E-mail me at jeffreybehr(at)cox(dot)net for the part numbers; sometimes they're tough to find there.
. |
Danlib,I totally agree with you, your post is very
accurate. |
PCs and power amps: I have found that power amps don't show much benefit from even the fanciest PCs UNLESS they have at least 10 AWG conductors.
In fact if you just make a PC from plain ole Carol 3 cond. 10AWG avail. from Home Depot and stick it on your power amp, you'll probably get 90% of the benefit of a more expensive cord. It's all about energy transfer with power amps. 12 AWG is the largest size stock PC I've seen supplied with a power amp, but they're usually 14 AWG. |
I have tried different powder cords on different equipment with differing results. I have a Krell 200S power amp that sounded better with a Gutwire power cable and continued to sound even better as I moved up the line. I was NOT looking to spend the money and was hoping I would NOT hear a difference. I heard improvements in clarity, transients, space and punch.
I also tried Cardas and Gutwire and Transparent power cables on my Classe surround processor and heard no difference(not so much current being used?)so did not bother upgrading.
I tried the same power cables on my Sonic Fontiers line 3 and there was an improvement each time.
I tried the Transparent power cables on my electronics and felt the sound seemed more sluggish with the 'networks' on them but the same power chord helped my Velodyne subwoofer with a small hum from the inboard amplifier.
If you have a good dealer that you deal with, they should let you buy the cables to try with the option of returning them if they don't work for you. Good luck. |
Instead of putting the focus on the power cord, money would be better spend on having a dedicated AC line with 20 amps available. At the very least your gear won't suffer the interference from various household devices. |
All cabling, including power cords, can change the sound to some degree. Making improvements however involves experimentation. After skeptical experimentation you may find the results are better than you'd imagine.
System synergies, expectations, hype, all have an impact on your perception. This said, I challenge anyone within driving distance of my home to swing by and tell me my aftermarket cords don't sound WAY better than the stock items.
Folks who TRULY hear no differences when cabling is changed can probably save themselves a lot of cash in this hobby. |
It seems popular opinion favors ignoring what the manufacturers recommend for their products. That being the case, why are people buying products from manufacturers who can't hear well enough to setup their products to sound their best? |
Being as how conditioners have already been brought up;here is my nickel's worth. I owned the CJ Prem 5 monos. Had them a year before I tried the Audio Magic conditioner--This is both amps into one A M unit-- It was like my amps were on steroids. (Read,more dynamic etc.)More recently I bought the DeHavilland Aeries g. monos. I listened for 3/4 weeks before trying a conditioner--(a no,no,says the factory) I swear it was like I had just upgraded to twice as good a pre,or something similar. This was now an Adept Response conditioner. When I talked to my dealer and Kara--they hated me.This was a difference Hellen Keller could have heard.(Sorry, I have to give an "over the top" reference.)to make my point. |
I believe conrad johnson makes the same comments concerning power cords (use the one supplied). I have upgraded the power cords on my cj amp and pre-amp and have heard no disernable difference in sound. I also upgraded the power cord on my cd player (scd-1) and felt it substantially lowered the noise floor on that component.
Chuck |
Audiogon is the only place I know of where the majority seem to encourage spending money on fancy power cords (even when you can hear a difference it is rarely an improvement). It is your money however.... |
pc's make a difference.....
i'll even go out on a limb and say just as much difference as interconnects/speaker cables in a high resolution system... |
Here's the link to the press release about the Torus power conditioners that Bryston will distribute:
http://toruspower.com/bryston_introduces_torus.htm |
George, as a matter of fact, a number of equipment manufacturers (notably power conditioners, I don't know why those but...) offer optional power cord upgrades . . . . either of their own or others manufacture. But these come at a (usually significant) price increase. If they offered these cords standard, they would price their equipment out of the market, so they just can't do it.
Another thing I learned recently, was that in order to obtain UL approval of their equipment, any shielded PC (either detachable or hardwired) supplied with the equipment must have the shield attached to ground at both ends, a configuration that often creates more hum problems than it eliminates.
So the manufacturers are in a sort of a damned if we do or don't situation. |
Nsgarch
Regarding aftermarket PC's ,well I say yes to them what the hell almost all audiophools do ,I mind as well joint the crowd.But seriously don't you guys agree that the audio companies are interested in selling products (amps for example) that sound the best possible and if that nice powercord gave them that extra edge they would include it and CHARGE for it.Or perhaps give you an option to have it .
I bought my first Virtual Dynamics PC's about a month ago I am not sure about their performance yet but they sure look nicier and fancier than the stock ones.
My humble opinion
Regards
George |
It's funny you mention that Onhwy61 because for years Bryston has been telling its customers there are no need for power conditioners and about a month ago they started distributing these http://toruspower.com/. Suddenly Bryston recommends clean power, when for the last 20 years they've been telling customers and dealers you don't need it and its a waste of money.
Stay tuned for Torus power cables, brought to you by an Authorized Bryston dealer near you. |
save your money. the wire that leads to your outlet comes from the same mines and manufacturers as that 500 dollar power cord. |
It's also possible that these manufacturers haven't heard the huge and dramatic improvements in sound quality that numerous audiophiles swear they've heard after spending large dollars on after market power cords. May be that Bryston and REL don't see the market opportunity to offer Mk II Signature Reference versions of their products with "upgraded" power cords. Apparently, some companies won't do anything for a dollar. |
Almost all manufacturers say the same thing as Bryston and REL. I mean, think about it: What if they said something like "Using a high quality aftermarket power cord may improve the performance of your new XXXX"
Besides begging the question "Well why didn't you supply a better PC in the first place?" (money, stupid!) Also, recommending you use only the supplied cord limits the manufacturer's liability: If anything happened to your unit while using an aftermarket product recommended by the manufacturer, they would still be responsible for damage or injury (even if the cord wasn't the problem.)
So you have to read between the (legal) lines of such statements. |
Krell also says: Only use the power cord supplied. |
Eandylee try DCCA pc, I will bet you will agree
good pc, makes a difference or maybe some good
after market pc.Thanks |
