Moon by Simaudio builds outstanding gear. I have owned their CD Transport, DAC'S, Integrated, Preamps and Amps. Nice gear.
What are you using for a pre?
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I am using Pass Labs XP10 for pre-amp. |
I owned W6 monoblocks paired with Dynaudio C4's more than a decade ago. I found them very underwhelming and sold them within a few weeks. Not impressed. |
@andy2 it is not your preamp that’s for sure… |
The older Sim gear when they made the transition from Celeste to Moon, like your W3, was really good, a great value, and looked cool. Today their stuff still sounds great but the retail prices are getting out of control ie the 6 figure 888 flagship mono amps. Tech in the audio world (outside of digital) isn't really advancing that quickly. You could even argue that we might be going backwards when you consider turntables and tube amps. Changes between model generations amount to tweaks rather then leaps which makes the price jumps hard to justify- ex. the W5 introduced in the late 90's was $4800, its current equivalent the 860a retails for 14k. Adjusting for inflation the W5 would be about $7,500 nearly half of it's contemporary. Place the two side by side and you will probably discern a marginal improvement assuming you prefer the 860 which is no guarantee in a blind test. It's not just Sim though, lots of manufacturers have engaged in rampant price escalation over the years. Its hard to blame them when audiophiles go through cognitive dissonance trying to pick apart minute subjective differences and end up picking the more expensive component.
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Sim audio, make great stuff as well.
Not heard any bad reviews about sound, build, etc, .....some of their out of warranty repair, Has been a pain in the butt, read over at audiokarma, or another audio message board, I’ll try to look for it.
but, like any high quality item, you will pay a little more.
BMW, Jaguar, any top tier brand will cost a little more.
You sure make up for it In looks, sound, and bragging rights!
:)
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It's not just Sim though, lots of manufacturers have engaged in rampant price escalation over the years.
Yes, I notice that too. High end audio gears price have been going up at rate that seems a little unreasonable. If you look inside some of the high end preamps, there are not much stuffs inside that justify the high price. |
High end gear can be considered Veblen goods, like some other luxury goods, the higher the price, the higher the demand. There is an exclusivity created by higher prices which is something a large segment of the population value. I wouldn't say the price hikes are unreasonable, since they need to keep up with the pace of wealth growth at the very top. If you really want to have an interesting discussion on economics, this probably isn't the forum, but I'd argue the price hikes are necessary for companies like Sim Audio et al. to maintain their status as luxury goods. The 888 monos I mentioned previously are the direct byproduct of the explosive wealth growth of the worlds millionaires and billionaires. If you can get past your concerns over owning something exclusive, and recognize the influence of cognitive dissonance, you can make better decisions on gear.
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I like Simaudio may get 330a amp to power my new speakers Motion ESL. Well plain and simple gear is going up insanely is because manufacturers figured out if we are willing to pay $2k for a power cord than a $15k amp is reasonable. This mark up is what they feel they creation is worth in the market place not the actual worth of parts, labour and R&D. Enjoy😃 |
Transportation and Raw Material costs are though the roof.
Supply chain is a mess no matter what you are manufacturing.
This will all play into global inflation. Things are going to get real crazy.
Just try and buy lumber, building materials, supply is short and prices are high. Higher than Giraffe ....
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"Today their stuff still sounds great but the retail prices are getting out of control ie the 6 figure 888 flagship mono amps. Tech in the audio world (outside of digital) isn’t really advancing that quickly. You could even argue that we might be going backwards when you consider turntables and tube amps. Changes between model generations amount to tweaks rather then leaps which makes the price jumps hard to justify- ex. the W5 introduced in the late 90’s was $4800, its current equivalent the 860a retails for 14k. Adjusting for inflation the W5 would be about
$7,500 nearly half of it’s contemporary."
I would normally not post anything at all on these forums, as it is supposed to be a place for users to express their views. However when an error is made of a factual nature, I feel it important to point out for the sake of everyone having the correct information. Reading the post quoted above, I can certainly see how that conclusion can be arrived it, but it is nonetheless incorrect.
It is surprising to see that our prices are "out of control" because we have introduced one statement product, the 888, which is very expensive.
MOON gear starts at US $2600 for an integrated amplifier. Twenty years ago the entry integrated was $1600 (for the i-3). Power amps today start at $4300. Twenty years ago the W-3 was $3200. It is no different for preamps and phono stages.
In all cases the current models have superior sonic performance, from the perspective of sonic accuracy and in technical performance.
As for the W-5, its contemporary wasn’t the 860A at all. It never was, nor the W-7 either. The W-5 morphed into the W5.3, using the same circuit but a bit less power, however, additional sonic refinement. After that it was completely discontinued.
Costa Koulisakis
Simaudio Ltd.
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Ive had the W 5.3 SE for at least 5 years and love it. Still don't have any inclination to replace it.
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Not an amp, but purchased their 260DT CD transport , well worth the $2K to my ears
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I have the 600i integrated and the 430HA headphone amp. Both pieces are keepers. The 600i is mated to Harbeth P3ESR SE speakers and it rivals my main system for enjoyment and sound quality.
Keepers, unless I decide to try out a high end tube headphone amp. Hah! |
Thanks, Simaudio for the forum clarification. Always good to see a manufacturer here. |
Agreed. Thanks for weighing in Costa.
Personally, I have found Simaudio’s level of customer service exemplary and enjoy their components immensely. I have owned the 780d DAC, the 740p and 850p preamps and the 870a stereo amp and 860a v2 monos. I believe their performance has been commensurate with their price all things being relative. That said, I was also quite impressed at the improvement of the 860a v2 in stereo over the 870a. And the retail on the 870a used to be $22k and now the 860a v2 is $18k. Not sure how many manufacturers end up pricing improved products lower. In addition they offer 10 year warranty on their products. Which seems incredibly rare. |
What is the main SQ difference between 860v2 and 870A ?
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