1. The Beatles: Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Heart's Club Band. The songs on this album are nowhere near as memorable as those on "Revolver" and "Rubber Soul". For that matter, this album is nowhere near as innovative, nor ultimately as influential, as either "Pet Sounds" or the first Velvet Underground album. I'm not the first to point out that blame for such artless excess as all seventeen minutes of In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida rests primarily with Sgt. Pepper.
2. Pink Floyd: The Wall. All of the criticisms usually applied to late 70's stadium rock, i.e., that it was pretentious, bloated, pseudo-intellectual,and self-indulgent; apply doubly to this crock opera. If you want witty and insightful philosophizing on the human condition, read Nietzsche, H.L. Mencken, or Michel Foucault. To seek such wisdom from pop music, a genre defined by its righteous Dionysian folly, is the greatest folly imaginable.
Pearl Jam: 10. Johnny Rotten was bang on when he described Pearl Jam as "bloody awful" and as sounding like "Joe Cocker singing for Black Sabbath." To my ears, this sounds like so much bland 70's rock (e.g., Bad Company). As The Monkees are to The Beatles, so are Pearl Jam to Nirvana.
4. U2: The Joshua Tree. I don't know where to begin. These guys plagiarized Joy Division, and set their sublime riffs to dumbass lyrics bespeaking the most niave sort of Oprah Winfrey meets Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farms bourgeois liberalism. I've said it before, I'll say it again: If you make me listen to a record by someone named Bono, his first name better be SONNY.
5. Bob Marley & The Wailers: Exodus. Not only was Bob Marley not, by a long shot, the best pop music figure to come out of Jamaica, he wasn't even my favorite member of The Wailers. The monomaniacal cult of personality surrounding the deceased Robert Nesta Marley comes at the expense of all the other, far more exciting, music to come out of that poverty-stricken island. As Lester Bangs put it:
"Toots and the Maytalls, who never got promoted properly, are the real heat from a Stax/Volt kitchen, whereas Marley always struck me as being so laid back he seemed almost MOR. Rastaman Vibration was the last straw: an LP obviously calculated to break Disco Bob into the American Kleenex radio market full force, complete with chicklet vocal backdrops chirping 'Pos-i-tive!'
I'm not sure if he tackled it or was driven into the dirt by it! You're right about the Final Cut comments. I think we might have flailed this dead horse into submission, but the journey is its own reward.
Nrchy I think now you are changing the argument but I agree up to a point but the main themes of the album are about Waters life. I think Waters ego might be the main problem on this album but most of that is probably to do with the group dynamics at the time As for your comment that it is social commentary about the British Empire? That probably fits The Final Cut better in terms of description. It's quite a brave record in a way,I agree some of it is simplistic but some of it is excellent too,to me it is flawed and signals the end of Floyd but it is too in many ways the apex of the concept album and that inevitably signals levels of pretension and conceit. As for rock stars only thinking their opinions are valid because they are rich(and powerful), isn't that one of the themes he tackles on the record?
Listening to the wall is like listening to a primary school student provide social commentary of the British Empire. The album is self indulgent and sophomoric. Roger Waters seems to be of the opinion that because he has MONEY he has an opinion worth hearing. I disagree!
Nrchy whatever faults The Wall has (and it has a few imho)I don't see how you can accuse Waters of having not a lot to say-there a number of elements in this piece that he clearly hadn't explored before and a number that he expanded on,in fact as you point out lyrically Animals is "the" album that has stereotypical Waters themes. And of course Jethro Tull are much better than the bands you mention........good grief.
Everything reveiwed by stereophile (well almost) sucks. Anything that passed for grunge sucked! Led Zeppelin IV was so overrated it is impossible to go into detail that would cover all of it. The Eagles-Hotel California, if only they would step inside and someone would have followed them with a match! U2s Joshua Tree was pretty sad but their previous outings were listenable AC DC metalica iron maiden: all metal for the mindless. Pink Floyd The Wall. I like Pink Floyd but it possible to hear on Animals (one of my favs) that Roger is running out of theings to say. Unfortunately he had to record a double album to prove how little he had to say! Jethro Tull Aqualung I am a huge fan of this band. I've seen them live more than any other band. Everyone can be excused a few lapses in reason. They did so many other albums which were good.
Glad everyone is keeping a sense of humor here. You guys are harsh! Twl: I'm mostly with you on the 80's, but have to stick up for Elivs Costello. Sure he caved to the general pop sound and short song length of the time, but seems like you could appreciate his often caustic cynicism.
As for contribution: how can any list of overrated albums not include (What's the Story) Morning Glory by Oasis. Maybe we all successfully blocked that blight from our memories.
Rcprince:Yes three ex Yardbirds!!!! Better to burn out than fade away!!! I have posted in the past that the Yardbirds where the best guitar band in the 60s. When J Beck and JPage where together, awesome!!! Unfortunately, there are only four songs they recorded that I am aware of, three rock songs and a commercial for "great shakes". You can see them together in the movie Blow Up (Jimmy Page on bass before moving over to co lead guitar). Some underground British music mags have staked the claim that the Yardbirds were the most innovative band of the 60s. Unfortunately they were better on stage than in the studio.
Twl: Nirvana's "teen spirit" was a great song, maybe they were just one hit wonders. I still crank that one up. I think they stole a lot of there material from Dream Syndicate. Does anyone remember that group???
I wish you'd stop sugar-coating your opinions, Twl! Despite that, I tend to think I lost interest in rock and gravitated more to classical by the mid 70s in part due to disco and the subsequent lack of interesting rock--even when my son was a teenager, there were only a few bands that interested me from what he was listening to (Matthews Band, a little Soundgarden (sp)). Most groups seem to lack the virtuoso instrumentalists I had access to when I listened to rock (Jeff Beck, Jimmy Page, Hendrix, Clapton--notice 3 ex-Yardbirds?), and I think the genre is worse for it. Plus I'm just older, and really can't relate to the message behind the music anymore.
I like Joni Mitchell. Any group known as the "pogues"(slang for gay) can go butt-surfing as far as I am concerned. The 80's? A decade of stinking crap, including Clash, and the rest of the so-called British Wave. Talentless thrashers. Anything that was on MTV sucked.Techno-pop, hideous. Vitually everything post-1980 should be put in a time capsule and ejected to the far reaches of the universe. Of course, the '80s were only exceeded by the disgusting '90s which heralded such "greats" as Nirvana and Ice Cube. Total waste of cheap plastic discs. Perhaps this "art form" should be re-named "Unbridled angst of untalented, uneducated, disenfanchised, walking adolescent hormones", and placed in a museum which would be appropriately marked with warning signs.
Tweek , it made my evening to read your post on J.Mitchell (was that not very strange when she made that album with Charles Mingus?).Still think of her hideous rendition of Annie Ross's "Twisted" in thick accent--"I didn't listen to his jive,cause I come fom the same hometown as Gordie Howe". Pretentious maximus. John K.
Hey, this thread died too quickly. I would say generally that double albums by "major artists" are almost invariably overrated by fans and critics. It is a very rare event when there is truly enough first rate material to justify a double album. "The White Album", "Exile on Main St.", "Blonde on Blonde", "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road", "London Calling" to name a few, all could have benefitted from some judicious trimming.
On a related note, I think the increased capacity of cds is a major problem with modern recordings. It seems bands feel compelled to put too much material on their albums simply because they can. An album just doesn't need to run much longer than 40-45 minutes without a darn good reason. I can't count how many potentially great albums have been sabotaged in this way. For god sakes, exercise a little quality control. At the very least separate out the dreck and label it as outtakes/bonus tracks at the end of the cd.
Ben, you may be right. That's why I listed it as a combo with the Jam. Paul does indeed seem to have lost his way over the last 4/5 albums, but after the terrific unplugged album I'm hoping for a resurgence. We all get old and boring though. I'm even listening to classical music now after feeding my head with my heroes: Clash, X, Jam, Costello, Velvet Underground, Ramones, Pogues, Black 47, Captain Beefheart, The Shaggs.
Every note that Kiss ever played,albums,rehearsals,tune ups replacing broken strings -everything.The worst rock band ever. Fleetwood mac-rumours Foghat-anything Led Zeppelin-anything Ted Nugent-anything
I find this a fascinating thread, and don't really know how to respond, but Duane's got a point. 90% of what we listen to is drivel. What is good is rare and what is ordinary is...well ordinary. Having said that I must admit that I like some truly awful groups and albums.
The Marley thing is curious to me. I've always liked Bunny better, but knew he wasn't as good as Bob. I was lucky enough to see Marley twice and Toots three times, and I gotta tell ya guys...Toots generated about one-tenth the power and emotion that Marley did.
The Shane MacGowan thread is interesting. I saw him a month ago and you couldn't ask for more...drunk, toothless, waltzing around, slobbering on himself, fat as hell...he was a true angel! Though I must say that the Jam/Style Council was the best the 80s had to offer.
But Pink Floyd....maybe I'm blind, but that is dinosaur, geezer rock...just awful.
I generally go by the rule...If its on the radio, it's terrible. Works damn near everytime.
I didn't know that O.K. computer was old enough to fit the topic, and where is it rated so highly as to cause you to mention it in the same breathe as Zeppelin 4(6th best Zeppelin Album), Tusk(boring), Van Morrison(YUCK), and who cares about Television anyway.
Woody was a great songwriter (and in my opinion the closest thing you can point to as a 'father' of American music), but he definitely had his moments of extreme selfishness. Still, I think that just makes him himan.
It gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling to know that we can all speak as one voice, in a united virtual community, and declare, without doubt or hesitation, that Creed sucks, as my Intro to Philosophy Professor was fond of saying, in all possible worlds.
Alanis Morissette- Jagged Little Pill I think this beats all! Every song on this stinker is worthy of heavy rotation on NPR's "Annoying Music Show."
For that matter, how about:
Joni Mitchell- Court & Spark After listening to "Tears of Stone" only 2 or 3 times, I decided that this disc by the otherwise reliable Chieftains was due for a trip back to the used cd store. However, I gave it one last listen; this time programming the song delivered by Joni Mitchell out of the track sequence. This trick revealed a collection of remarkable and beautiful songs that I still listen to with great frequency. If you don't believe that Joni Mitchell is overrated, you should read her self-appraisal of the value of her own work. She credits her music with artistic merit, not on a par with such contemporaries as Joan Baez or Melanie, but rather with Ludwig Van Beethoven and Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart!
Has the English language any phrase more horrifying than "Canadian singer-songwriter"?
Pawil71 I liked your post but I did take exception to your description of Geddy Lee as an arrogant fraud-the wee man may have a voice like Daffy Duck on helium and been responsible for some silly music but I think you maybe got him mixed up with somebody else,he is certainly not arrogant nor has he ever claimed to be Bob Dylan,Miles Davis or Woody Guthrie. As a teenager I was a massive Rush fan and had the fortune of meeting Geddy Lee a few times,he always had time for the fans and was a nice guy,he is actually one of the world's most talented bassists. This thread has been fun and I can't get too precious either way about music I like or don't like,I can argue to the cows come home but it won't change a lot.... As you get older and understand music more you can see some of the obvious flaws in music you like or liked but I can still get a lot of fun from music like Rush,partly is nostalgia but I do think at their peak they produced some innovative music in their field,they certainly inspired a whole bunch of folks,it's clear reading through this thread some people have just used it to blast artists they didn't like,that's really not the point of the original post certainly my listing features 4 artists I actually like but thought specific examples deserved the tag overrated..
rcprince states that Sgt Pepper is not overrated, but he thinks other albums are better. My understanding is that the "rock establishment" such as it is, regards Sgt Pepper as the #1 greatest album ever, in which case, if there is even one album better, then Sgt Pepper is by definition overrated. A small point, and not a profound one, but I thought I'd make it nonetheless. In any case, I'll say I think it's great but overrated. Give me Revolver and Pet Sounds.
Loved seeing Funhouse mentioned on the good lists. That album is primordial, evil genius. To see it on a list with Abba is more interesting still. Shows an open minded listener.
As for the originality argument, I'll take Stravinsky's view that decent artists imitate, and great ones steal. A big part of Art is using the source of your inspiration to its maximum, then covering your tracks. Many of the greatest classical works are actually arrangements and expansions of folk tunes. Pet Sounds is an inspired response to Rubber Soul. Doesn't bother me one bit. Originality does count for something, but it is not everything.
As for those who think giant egoes and arrogance are part of the fun of rock, I disagree. A humble, big hearted genius like Woody Guthrie is much more my speed than an arrogant fraud like Geddy Lee. Peacocks (except for Mick Jagger) cheapen a whole genre and blur the image of more sincere, lasting musicians. Okay, Woody's not a rock musician, but there are many in rock who have learned from his example.
That said, I agree The Wall is pretentious, but I think it is musically superb. Sad to hear Roger Waters' contempt for his audience, but that probably says more about him than it does his audience.
And I'd like to agree with the post that instists that rock is a valid artistic form. Maybe 50million Britney fans CAN be wrong, but rock as a whole is a durable, flexible, expressive art form, and if it were not, it would have gone the way of ragtime by now. And even ragtime was good art.
As someone who doesn't particularly listen to Reggae, I think it is worth noting that Bob Marley is the choice of most reggae dilettantes, and I think that's because his greatness is bigger than his genre. Just like lots of rockers love Johnny Cash, Patsy Cline, and Willie Nelson. When someone earns respect of people who don't necessarily dig his chosen style of music, that gets my attention. I think Bob is an amazing musician. Am looking into Toots and the Maytals and some of the others mentioned all the same.
I must protest the inclusion of Pavarotti in a list of schlock. The man has made some horrid missteps, but his mention in the post of Mr Mingus77etc implies that the man is a charlatan. No one who heard the man at his best would ever doubt his status as one of the greatest singers ever to live. I say this as someone who wanted not to like him...
So many musically pedestrian and mediocore records and so little time... Can't really disagree w/ the titles named so far. Might add Jethro Tull, Thick as a Brick. Most Pink Floyd and Alan Parsons releases are weak, predictable and as tasty as styrofoam when compared to the work of Blast, Universe Zero, Tipographica, Il Berlione, Massacre, Mahavishnu Orch., Present, X legged Sally, Fermata, Kollektiv, Soft Machine and dozens of other bands that expanded rock music w/out becoming fluff peddlers. hope anyone who is offended will check out some other stuff and dig it.
Sgt Peppers Overrated!!One of The most influential Rock/Pop albums of all time.In Music and our culture.Opened the door for Psych,Prog,Pop,art rock and on and on and it still is.The Beatles blew EVERYONE Away with this one.A Historic LP!Read your Music History 101 !!
Ya know I can't get this thread out of my head, but thinking about it so much has made me realize some simple facts;
1) Mankind will always differ in matters of personal preferences...maybe that is what really makes us different from the rest of the animal world. My dog don't care what window he can hang his head out, as long as he can hang his head out.
2) Ya'all are a lot older than me:p I'm scared of how much $$$ I'll have into my rig by the time I'm your age;)
Some one please tell me at least one of you know more than 1 of David Gray's songs.
Thank you Waltersalas, for including the Beatles' White Album--way too uneven for me. They could have made it one disk and had a great album. I don't agree that Sgt. Pepper is overrated, but must admit the Beatles' albums that preceded it were much better artistically, some of their best stuff. And I would include the Stones' later albums on the list, but not their earlier efforts.
Tweekgeek, I'm with you on the Marley thing, and always believed that Bunny Wailer and Peter Tosh were far better musicians. Bob couldn't really sing for that matter, but he sure did have business savvy and that's why he took top billing among his dred friends. Yet, many reggae greats including the late Dennis Brown and the Grammy nominated (finally!) Beres Hammond have always spoken with reverence about Bob Marley because of what he made possible in their lives. Somebody had to take it out of Kingston, and Bob just happened to be the man. A lot of life is luck, but I guess that's another thread.
Viridian, it took me about five years to realize that Madonna and Cindy Lauper were two different people! She's got to go, especially now that she's embarassing herself in London. Oh, and Michael Jackson's "Thriller" was about the biggest piece of poop for a top-rated albulm that I've ever heard.
Hey Tweakgeek,Looks like you started a lively thread and was most intrigued to see a few of your 'best of' inclusions. I'm a bit disappointed that you pick 'Siren' as the best Roxy Music album, but kudos for throwing the Residents in there (what about 'Duckstab' and 'Third Reich of R&R' though?). 'Modern Dance' and 'Funhouse' for absolute-sure, but Killdozer....wow, there's a band I haven't thought about in a long time. Let's dig into the same vintage and put Meat Puppets 'II' and 'Up on the Sun' in that list. I appreciated and sympathized with at least a few of your initial comments that began this thread as well. As far as Marley is concerned, I just may have to say 'thank you' for voicing your opinion on that. I am definitely not gonna dismiss Marley and his significance. A couple of his earlier works and some of the stuff he did with Lee Perry is pretty vital stuff, and I've heard a couple of live sets that really did rock. That aside, as something of a reggae fan/collector who has dug into the veritable labyrinth of the recordings that came from the classic era of Jamaican music, it is disappointing to see Marley get such exposure to a degree that shrouds everything else in the scene. I'm definitely sick of the weekend 'reggae warrior' type...you know, the guy who has one, maybe two Marley albums (and one of them has got to be Exodus) and likes to occasionally blast them out of the frat-room living area while proclaiming that they are really 'into' reggae. When anything gets a little too popular, I suppose it's easy to begrudge it. OK...let the thread continue with even more astute observations.
1)Pink Floyd, 'Dark Side of the Moon' - Is this thing still on the charts? 'Wish You Were Here' is a much better album.
2)James Taylor, anything except 'Fire and Rain'- Maybe a cheap shot to include a singer-songwriter as frothy as Sweet Baby James on this list, but I had a girlfriend once who LOVED him. He's just so sensitive, you know. We're broken up now, so on the list goes the Prince of Smarm.
3)Dire Straits, 'Brothers in Arms'- Yes, they've got a sound and they've got their MTV and they've got their beach homes. They just ain't got much to say. I'll be fine if I never hear "Money for Nothing" ever again.
4)Pearl Jam, 'Ten'- A very earnest, well-intentioned band, and they have improved. But the debut failed to live up to the hype, and then some. Sodden, dreary, dead on its feet, its weakness was brought into sharp relief by the brilliance of Nirvana's 'Nevermind'.
5)Beatles, 'White Album'- Some great stuff interspersed with some crap. I'd vote for this one over 'Sgt. Pepper's'. For that matter, I'd vote for 'Abbey Road' over 'Sgt. Pepper's'.
The best bands of the 1980s were, in no particular order, Talking Heads, X, the Feelies, the Minutemen, the Replacements, Husker Du, and Prince and the Revolution.
As to those who warn us not to look for deep meaning in our music or take it too seriously, I can only shake my head in wonder. It seems people in this hobby fall into one of two categories--those who build their systems to bring them closer to the music, and those who buy their music to bring them closer to their systems. Music not that important? Mister, in my house, it's a basic food group.
Anybody want to go for a Top Five Underrated Albums thread? I'd rather learn about 'obscure' stuff that moves people than bash...well, come to think of it, bashing is fun, too.
This is a great idea,knowing that there are people who dislike 'hotel california' as much as I do feels good.Maybe somebody could start a worst jazz/classical cd string-Kenny G and Pavarotti spring to mind,anyway I nominate any Christian rock album-there must only be 5, right.
Heart - Dreamboat Annie - another one that didn't appeal when it was new, it doesn't appeal as a "classic", it doesn't get the juices going if you happen to hear it at "just the right time."
I can't believe we're 30+ posts into this thread and nobody has bashed "Frampton Comes Alive". At least you don't hear the "talking guitar" song still coming at you from all angles, but it was painful while it lasted.
Ben, about The Pogues, when I was hanging out in London in the late 70's, I knew Shane Mcgowan as an impossibly ugly obsessive Clash fan. His Gaelic sensibilities apparently came to him later in life: his t-shirt of choice back then usually bore the Union Jack.
In 1992 I was at a Pogues concert at the Town & Country. This was when Joe Strummer was singing for them. The experience was a bit of a mise-en-abime. I was standing by the bar watching Joe Strummer immitate Shane Mcgowan imitating Joe Strummer. In the midst of it all, Shane McGowan & his wife walked right up to the bar next to me. Very wierd.
That being said, I nevertheless nominate The Pogues for the dubious distinction of the best band of the 80's. There is hardly fierce competition for this honor (the Jam? Run DMC?)
While I'm at it, the following albums also deserve a place on my all-time best list:
T-Rex-Electric Warrior The Residents-Commercial Album Primal Scream-Screamadelica Captain Beefheart-Trout Mask Replica MC5-Back in the USA (do not attempt to play this one on a high-end system) Tom Waits-Heartattack and Vine
Let's get back on the topic of trashing crappy rock albums that somehow enjoy outsized reputations. Does anybody else get an uncontrollable urge to take an axe to any speaker from which emanates the saccharine sweetness of Supertramp's "Breakfast in America"?
I find Rush to be wildly entertaining, and consider them to be the funniest Rock band in the business. Your post brings to mind one of the most common criticisms of the film "This is Spinal Tap." Everyone can name at least a dozen real-life rock bands that are way funnier than Spinal Tap. Did anyone else catch that hilarious VH-1 "Behind the Music" segment on Styx? It was everything "This is Spinal Tap" should have been, but wasn't.
Yes indeed, Rush wouldn't be Rush, and Rick Wakeman wouldn't be Rick Wakeman, without their signature over-the-top pomposity. Our world would be a more somber place without them.
Docwarnock you've obviously buying all the wrong records,I heard a record once (forget it's name) it was really quite though-provoking...:-) I like that idea where you can decide what people can and can't get out of music,remember you are only limited by your own imigination and I AM looking for truth and meaning..so where exactly should I look? Tv,under the bed,better speaker cable?
Tweak surprisingly we have semi-similar tastes-I would disagree perhaps about specific albums-Roxy etc....The Cramps well I would guess you were a big fan at the time and you see it as great rock and roll no doubt,to me fun stuff big energy-not great....likewise The Pogues a drunken bigot fronting a folk band who want to be the Clash does not great music make-Clinic surely too soon. But I see why you don't like The Wall-you read the NME for too long..........keep fighting kids it's fun and I actually like Hotel California mostly because I don't listen to radio and I only play it about once every five years
I agree with lots of the above. Anything by post-Gabriel Genesis is overrated. Aerosmith -- anything since Toys in the Attic (which was a fun listen for its time). Sting -- come on, that's not even rock, is it? The Stones were great early on (Paint it, Black or Mothers Little Helper) but by the time they tried disco, "forget about it". While I love the Who, I've never been a Tommy fan. While I love Pink Floyd (Wish You Were Here and Animals in particular), I've never been able to convince myself to pick up The Wall. And if I never hear one of the top rated songs of all time "Bye, Bye Miss American Pie", I'd be a happy guy. Great post. Oh, Sugarbrie, I'm with you on the Ramones. Also, while the grunge movement was lots of fun, I do believe Nirvana was overrated in general -- there were a lot of other fine players in that game (I miss Sound Garden for example).
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