No more digital/analog nightmare?Sony have THE answer? Look at analog and digital recording,resonably good whatever,but then you have too reproduce the studio work in your home,its here it ALL begins. Gramofhone,making mekano movement to elect.impuls, dont work.Nobody who have been in a studio and listened to reel_music would say that a grammo can sound like that. At least 20% are missing.But we recon what we hear as our Analog alternative. Digital Are better!Not much are missing,and we learn! BUT you have to use digital filter on a digital recording, and analog on a analog recording and shape it likewise. Thats why SONY has placed 9 koefc.filters on there better CD.s since -96 so you can listen to take thr right one, at a spec.recording.But with all the standards in use while recording it is hard to make it funktion,Thats one of the reson to SuperAudio CD,to take controll over All What is happening in the studio,so that we only have to think about "Getting the right fase,The current in the diff countries in the world Even SONY can get controll over". So grammos are a relic fromlast centure.But analog recordings vill survive. Excuse my spelling, Greetings from Sweden |
Surely you jest Fear3000 (Felix) especially coming from a vinylphile like yourself? But I must agree. CD recordings are improving. In addition the remasterings, especially of rock is easier to listen to than the vinyl of the same in most cases. All things being equal, Carl sums it up quite nicely, the continuousness (resolution) of vinyl is still top dog on an absolute level and I bet all doubting Thomas would be convinced if they could hear a analog great set-up. That said my digital front end with the Bel Canto has put listener fatigue in remission for the time being and I sure welcome the convenience. Now it is time to work on my analog front end. When is this ever going to end? |
carl, i'm not surprised that yer vinyl rig surpasses the quality of yer cd rig. but, yust *imagine* the improvements to yer vinyl yude realize w/an upgrade to yer preamp. i only have to assume that yer preamp could use upgrading, as ewe previously mentioned not wanting to reveal its make/model because ewe said "i'd make fun of it". well, all joking aside, i tink yude really be amazed how much improvement a good preamp can make. not that it could possibly improve the sound of yer res-audio cd-player run straight-in... ;~) doug |
Tubegroover, you're correct to be suspicious of the post, simply because I did not write it. Clearly someone's registered my moniker here, and is having some fun with this forum. Best Wishes, Felix |
Please explain. Tubegroover: do you agree or not with Fear3000's previous post now that he disowns it ? Fear3000: do you prefer CDs or vinyl ? |
Sedond, I'll not reveal it, simply for the reason that no matter what it is, guys like you will say things like you said ("just imagine how good it would be if you would just get a better one"). You know what? You don't even know what it is, nor have you heard it in my system, so frankly I don't need to hear what you have to say about it. It's irrelevant, and mere speculation. I'd also lay odds that you don't really think much of the rest of my equipment, either. That's fine, you aren't the arbiter of good sound. You don't decide what's what....thank goodness! |
Hexenboden I agree that digital is improving. I am really taken with some of the remasterings and prefer many to their vinyl counterparts. But as stated above, all things being equal so far as the recording is concerned, analog playback is better. Even on my modest rig, which is old, it is all too obvious. On a great analog set-up on the order of Albert’s with his absolute attention to ALL the details and set-up, the superiority and sheer musical enjoyment would be obvious to all who would listen. I don’t for a second doubt it. I now recognize the need to upgrade mine because the fact is I have more albums than CD's and it is worth it to me to do so. I currently listen to digital more than vinyl because of convenience. I would say I am currently 70/30. When digital was far worse than it currently is, I spent much more time listening to vinyl. If I were just getting started I would certainly be looking at the future of digital as my primary format. Digital will in the near future, I feel certain, offer that continuousness found in the very best analog along with the obvious benefits it has over analog. It is a matter of time. But I suspect this argument will continue on as long as there are die-hard analogphiles around. So far as Fear3000 post is concerned, I was quite surprised at the original post and it is the reason I commented. I have read his posts on AA and those who are familiar with him would be surprised at those remarks. He is a dedicated knowledgeable analog lover who I have learned much from. |
carl, i think ewe have an *excellent* vinyl rig, an *excellent* cd-player, an *exellent* amp. i owned the fono-stage ewe use, & dint care for it - a bit too dry for my tastes, but perhaps it matches better w/yer benz cartridge, which is known for being warm, than it did w/my ortofon. i can't comment about your speakers, as i don't recall them; or your preamp, cuz it's a secret. my *only* interest in these threads is to help audiophiles get the best sound for their dollars; the only speculation i see here is ewe feeling i'd make fun of your preamp. kind of absurd. i'm only the arbiter of what makes good sound in *my* system. same goes for you, i'm sure. but, i've found it very helpful learning about other's experiences in *their* systems. it's too bad ewe seem to make decisions based upon what ewe speculate are someone's ulterior motives, than to yust accept their comments at face-value. i've always felt open, honest discussion was key to learning, not yust in audio. regards, doug |
Doug, please do not pretend that you were not making a value judgement based on PURE SPECULATION (on YOUR part) of whatever linestage you think it is, that I own (when you said "if you would just get a good one, you wouldn't believe the improvement"). And frankly, I consider it a pompous attitude, that someone would feel that they are here simply because they can "help everyone save money". That assumes that such an individual would have "all the answers for all possible situations". I always thought of being here as being a function of sharing my own personal experiences with those who would listen, and if they are somehow helped by it, so much the better. I certainly do NOT assume that I will "help", by demanding that others share my point of view (and therefore "save money")....because that doesn't work, Doug. And this is not speculation on my part, this is fact. My point is, your views of audio are more subjective than mine, and nothing you have said is evidence to the contrary. That's fine, you are free to be that way, but it still annoys me, and I don't feel that it helps anyone. Whenever an ACTUAL personal experience is shared here (and NOT SPECULATION), then those who are interested are helped, it seems to me. |
i don't demand anyone share my views, & i don't pretend anything. no pomposity on my part, either. my 2-cents worth, thrown in w/everyone else's, should, hopefully, help folks w/their audio systems. dunno about ewe, but it's helped me. i find it amusing that it's ok for *you* to speculate, but ya get annoyed when ya tink *others* do it. regards, doug |
I am not speculating, and you are. And I don't *tink* anything, except in the restroom. |
jeez, carl, i only contributed to this thread cuz of actual experiences i've had w/preamps, which may (or may not) benefit some of the readers, & all i get back is defensiveness & ill-will. of *course* i'm speculating about your preamp - DOH! hard *not* to, as it seems to be such a secret. here's some of *your* exact quotes, all speculative: "I'd also lay odds that you don't really think much of the rest of my equipment, either."..."Perhaps we are all biased by what we like, but I submit that my system is radically more transparent than most, because I know how to set up a room acoustically."..."I haven't seen the specs on the particular ceramic midrange that is in the Kharmas (it's not Accuton, it's supposedly much better), but I can tell you that the Accuton ceramic drivers are not any faster than the Esotar mid."..."One thing I will not stand for, are those individuals on here who are just looking to argue with me about this product line. I know what I hear, and I don't care what any of you hear...especially if you (or even your claims that the designer) thinks this product sounds better through a separate linestage. That's about as wrong as it gets."..." I doubt the Dynavector "blows away" the BPS, but I haven't heard the Dynavector. If you wanna hear "blown away", you need to spend more IMO."..."How do I know that you are even telling the truth, firstly? I've compared the Phonomena to the latest version of the Black Cube, and the Phonomena was much more accurate, more musical, more dynamic, far had less ss "false edge", and was far better able to fine tune the capacitance and resistance loading...besides the gain. Frankly, I resent dealers (or "claimed former dealers" honking that they've heard it all before "in their store"...And claims like that don't mean jack anyhow, becuase no dealer's store I have visited, or heard of, had a set-up that was resolved enough to make adequate comparisons of ANY component, AND NEITHER HAS ANYONE ELSE I'VE KNOWN OR BEEN ACQUAINTED WITH (visited a dealer where even their best "demo rooms" were "up to suff").........................What makes you think you have heard a phono stage that is a better value than the Phonomena? If you think you have, then prove it to me verbally right here, rather than relying on your pompous attitude. Prove that there is a phono stage that represents a better value in the $600 range than the Phonomena, right now."..."And if Jeff Kalt feels his analog output stage is of poor quality (that is also an unsubstantiated comment that somehow gets by the censors and seems like a total falsehood to me), then he needs to get out of this business, and stop making CD players."..."My only conclusion from this exchange...is that Doug Sedond is on the Audiogon staff, but hasn't been up front about it. My position is, I try to be honest. For that, I'm being victimized by those who seem less honest."..."There is also no valid reason why an extra active component in the signal path would make any improvement on the CD player, unless it is a less resolved, and less musical presentation that you're after (and there certainly is no reason to be after such a thing). I stand by the performance of my player when run directly, and I do not accept any assertion that an additional linestage will improve its performance in any way, even if God himself says so, much less a mere human. Good day."..."Frankly, you don't need to know what preamp I use, because you will simply slight it, no matter how good it is."..."I reject the notion that the designers feel the CD player sounds better with a preamp." JEEZ, CARL, SURF THRU ANY THREAD, AND IT'S EASY TO FIND YER SPECULATION. FRANKLY, I'M TIRED OF ARGUING W/EWE YUST CUZ YURE PISSED-OFF THAT I THINK GEORGE BUSH IS A MENTAL MIDGET. SORRY YURE SO CLOSE-MINDED THAT YA CAN'T ASSESS SOMEONES OPINION ABOUT AUDIO RATIONALLY, YUST CUZ YA DON'T LIKE THEIR POLITICAL VIEWS!?! sorry, audiogon members, i will try to avoid rising to the bait in the future, & i will hopefully refrain from responding to carl's small-minded barbs pointed in my direction. doug |
Most of my quotes are not speculation, but personal experience. The rest are opinions based on experience, and NOT SPECULATION THAT IS NOT BASED ON HAVING NO EXPERIENCE AT ALL WITH A PARTICULAR PRODUCT, like the speculation that YOU are want to do, seemingly all the time...........................Whether or not you personally like those experiences of mine (or disagree with them), is of no importance to me, Doug. I am NOT small minded, it is you who is small minded. Quoting what I have said in the past only proves that you know how to right click, copy, and paste (those monkeys you evolved from can do it just as easily), doesn't disprove ANYTHING I have said (also makes me believe that you are somehow obsessed with me). YOU SAYING THAT I AM SMALL MINDED IS IN DIRECT VIOLATIUON TO THE RULES, btw, not that the Audiogon staff care....unless of course it was me that was violating those rules......................And regarding Bush, you're just jealous that he went to a better school than you did! You've got 4 days to get over it... |
bush go to a better school than i?!? HA! in yer dreams, speculator-man! |
Hey Carl_eber, have you tried those Radio Shack flat speaker cables yet? I've only compared then to lamp cord and original Monster, but they're the greatest! Haha, I love all you guys. |
Have we forgotten that Mar00 has posted a legitimate question concerning his choices in playback? It would be informative to all of us if we could respond with hard, clear information as to how to improve our systems. Many of you have experiences that are valuable. Any chance of airing these treasures of knowledge without the personal attacks? Also, the ancient rule of avoiding Politics and Religion is valid. Either subject is bound to stir controversy and problems. Certainly I have my opinion, and plan to voice my choice on election day, and leave Audiogon to the pursuit of music. I believe a tiny amount of respect for other members choices will allow the postings to remain on subject. If you disagree, attacks on others members will neither change their mind, nor will it encourage others to share their information. I believe that others at this site are in need of better sound, just as I am. |
Albertporter - can you please post everywhere that I read online? Sedond & Carl - I've read and enjoyed posts from both of you, but exchanges such as these really should be kept to e-mail correspondance. |
Must agree with Albert. Once you've heard correcly set up Analog, be it LP or tape, there isn't much choice. Digital is getting better, but I won't be giving up my vinyl, this time. |
