ya, i bought my turntable & fono-stage used. but, i have only ~$2k invested in it, & i'd put it up against *any* cd set-up at *any* price. so, yes, mar00, $500 mebbe ain't enuff $$$ to better your nice cd set-up, but ya don't have to drop a huge wad-o-cash to better it. doug |
hi brian, no, you *dint* misunderstand me - run thru a cary slp98 preamp, there was absolutely *no* difference between the $500 nad cd-changer & the $1700 alchemist nexus cd player on my system, which is as stated previously. (*everything* sounds better thru a melos music director preamp, tho!). i've not listend to the resolution audio cd-55 thru my system, but my brother-in-law has compared it w/the alchemist nexus on *his* system: alchemist kraken preamp, audio research vt100 mkII, proac 2.5's. miniscule changes between them both, he reports. both also sound better thru the kraken than straight-in. also, a *big* improvement w/a new a-r ls16 preamp he *yust* purchased. so, what's not right? perhaps my nad cd-changer is a giant-killer? it did receive a class-d s'phile rating, after all! ;~) regards, doug |
hi craig, i respect your point-of-view, & it's true - w/my ~$500 nad cd changer, my digital is far from state of the art. but, i a-b'd my nad w/a $1700 alchemist nexus cd player, on *my* system, and there was *no* difference between the two. my brother-in-law a-b'd this same alchemist on *his* system w/a $3500 resolution audio cd-55, & he said there were "miniscule" differences between the two, only noticed, & yust "barely", when run in a direct a-b comparison. i can see no reason to upgrade my nad cd player - i wonder how much $$$ i'd really have to spend, if i wanted cd to come close to analog on my system. i agree that cd is way-convenient, but i'm waiting until the 24-192 format (or whatever) is commercially awailable before spending any more $$$ on cd-playback. regards, doug. ps - i *do* have a full-range system, w/a pair of vmps larger subs, electronically crossed over to a pair of meret re's @ 60hz w/a marchand 24db/octave x-over. a pair of bridged adcom gfa 555's drive the vmps', & a pair of electrocompaniet amps drive the merets in a biamped configuration. i get *great* tight, deep bass extension, and excellent dynamics w/vinyl, on my system. cd *is* good, yust more fatiguing, & a bit less dimensional... |
hi craig, i have *no* problem w/background noises on my vinyl set-up, and i don't have a super-spendy cartridge either. the ortofon mc25-fl retails at $450, but the needle-doctor sells it (perpetually on sale?) for $225. perhaps your fono-stage was lacking? or, mebbe ewe had too much gain from your fono-stage/preamp combo, for the cartridge used? i have a nice fono-stage, the pentagon ps-3 (retail $1900?), which i got as a demo close-out for $600. i had it set to highest gain for the lo-output (0.2mv) of my m/c w/my cary preamp, and all was well w/the world. no noise problems. when i hooked up the melos music director preamp, there was all sortsa noise on the fono - i dint understand it, and at 1st, i thought it was a poor preamp. but, a bit of experimenting led to the realization that the melos had so much gain, that, even w/the low-output mc cartridge i'm using, i could set the fono stage on its lowest setting, & still have plenty of gain. (melos sez this preamp will drive efficient speakers directly w/no amps - i *believe* 'em!) no more background noise, only sweet music. so, craig, i tink there was a mismatch in your system between the preamp/fono/cartridge. regards, doug |
hi joe_b. *PLEASE* email me yer record list!!! sedond@ors.od.nih.gov re: your 'table, i bought an oracle, orig version updated to mk-v specs, all except the power-supply, included grace 727 tonearm, box, & shipping from canada to maryland, for $1250. included was the $60 to buy the correct factory box for shipping. hope this helps, doug |
noise on vinyl must be a generational thing. sure, an album in really poor condition is annoying, but most vinyl noise is not at all irksome to me. (most of my vinyl is in decent shape, too). must be cuz i've been doing that vinyl-thing for over 30 years, and i got a cd player only 5 years ago - and *only* because some new releases i couldn't get in the vinyl format. i *always* check to see if new releases are awailable on vinyl prior to purchase - often, they are - gotta know where to look. doug |
jeez, i have a decent vinyl rig, but by no means anywhere near the top of the food-chain, at least as far as price goes! ;~) while i *do* get some unwanted noise on some of my discs in less-than-pristine condition, for the most part, it isn't a problem. and, while i *can* set-up a turntable, i don't have all kindsa fancy test equipment to aid me. while i have grown-up w/vinyl, i've listened to enuff cd's, and had enuff folks hear my set-up that are mainly familiar w/only cd's, to know that noise ain't an issue w/properly set-up vinyl. i gotta weigh in w/albert p on this one. my vinyl-cleaning regimen consists mostly of a dish-soapy sponge w/warm water, & a keith monks record-sweeper, which keeps the grooves clean & static-free, by tracking along w/the record - from the other side of the table, of course! ;~) doug |
carl, i'm not surprised that yer vinyl rig surpasses the quality of yer cd rig. but, yust *imagine* the improvements to yer vinyl yude realize w/an upgrade to yer preamp. i only have to assume that yer preamp could use upgrading, as ewe previously mentioned not wanting to reveal its make/model because ewe said "i'd make fun of it". well, all joking aside, i tink yude really be amazed how much improvement a good preamp can make. not that it could possibly improve the sound of yer res-audio cd-player run straight-in... ;~) doug |
carl, i think ewe have an *excellent* vinyl rig, an *excellent* cd-player, an *exellent* amp. i owned the fono-stage ewe use, & dint care for it - a bit too dry for my tastes, but perhaps it matches better w/yer benz cartridge, which is known for being warm, than it did w/my ortofon. i can't comment about your speakers, as i don't recall them; or your preamp, cuz it's a secret. my *only* interest in these threads is to help audiophiles get the best sound for their dollars; the only speculation i see here is ewe feeling i'd make fun of your preamp. kind of absurd. i'm only the arbiter of what makes good sound in *my* system. same goes for you, i'm sure. but, i've found it very helpful learning about other's experiences in *their* systems. it's too bad ewe seem to make decisions based upon what ewe speculate are someone's ulterior motives, than to yust accept their comments at face-value. i've always felt open, honest discussion was key to learning, not yust in audio. regards, doug |
i don't demand anyone share my views, & i don't pretend anything. no pomposity on my part, either. my 2-cents worth, thrown in w/everyone else's, should, hopefully, help folks w/their audio systems. dunno about ewe, but it's helped me. i find it amusing that it's ok for *you* to speculate, but ya get annoyed when ya tink *others* do it. regards, doug |
jeez, carl, i only contributed to this thread cuz of actual experiences i've had w/preamps, which may (or may not) benefit some of the readers, & all i get back is defensiveness & ill-will. of *course* i'm speculating about your preamp - DOH! hard *not* to, as it seems to be such a secret. here's some of *your* exact quotes, all speculative: "I'd also lay odds that you don't really think much of the rest of my equipment, either."..."Perhaps we are all biased by what we like, but I submit that my system is radically more transparent than most, because I know how to set up a room acoustically."..."I haven't seen the specs on the particular ceramic midrange that is in the Kharmas (it's not Accuton, it's supposedly much better), but I can tell you that the Accuton ceramic drivers are not any faster than the Esotar mid."..."One thing I will not stand for, are those individuals on here who are just looking to argue with me about this product line. I know what I hear, and I don't care what any of you hear...especially if you (or even your claims that the designer) thinks this product sounds better through a separate linestage. That's about as wrong as it gets."..." I doubt the Dynavector "blows away" the BPS, but I haven't heard the Dynavector. If you wanna hear "blown away", you need to spend more IMO."..."How do I know that you are even telling the truth, firstly? I've compared the Phonomena to the latest version of the Black Cube, and the Phonomena was much more accurate, more musical, more dynamic, far had less ss "false edge", and was far better able to fine tune the capacitance and resistance loading...besides the gain. Frankly, I resent dealers (or "claimed former dealers" honking that they've heard it all before "in their store"...And claims like that don't mean jack anyhow, becuase no dealer's store I have visited, or heard of, had a set-up that was resolved enough to make adequate comparisons of ANY component, AND NEITHER HAS ANYONE ELSE I'VE KNOWN OR BEEN ACQUAINTED WITH (visited a dealer where even their best "demo rooms" were "up to suff").........................What makes you think you have heard a phono stage that is a better value than the Phonomena? If you think you have, then prove it to me verbally right here, rather than relying on your pompous attitude. Prove that there is a phono stage that represents a better value in the $600 range than the Phonomena, right now."..."And if Jeff Kalt feels his analog output stage is of poor quality (that is also an unsubstantiated comment that somehow gets by the censors and seems like a total falsehood to me), then he needs to get out of this business, and stop making CD players."..."My only conclusion from this exchange...is that Doug Sedond is on the Audiogon staff, but hasn't been up front about it. My position is, I try to be honest. For that, I'm being victimized by those who seem less honest."..."There is also no valid reason why an extra active component in the signal path would make any improvement on the CD player, unless it is a less resolved, and less musical presentation that you're after (and there certainly is no reason to be after such a thing). I stand by the performance of my player when run directly, and I do not accept any assertion that an additional linestage will improve its performance in any way, even if God himself says so, much less a mere human. Good day."..."Frankly, you don't need to know what preamp I use, because you will simply slight it, no matter how good it is."..."I reject the notion that the designers feel the CD player sounds better with a preamp." JEEZ, CARL, SURF THRU ANY THREAD, AND IT'S EASY TO FIND YER SPECULATION. FRANKLY, I'M TIRED OF ARGUING W/EWE YUST CUZ YURE PISSED-OFF THAT I THINK GEORGE BUSH IS A MENTAL MIDGET. SORRY YURE SO CLOSE-MINDED THAT YA CAN'T ASSESS SOMEONES OPINION ABOUT AUDIO RATIONALLY, YUST CUZ YA DON'T LIKE THEIR POLITICAL VIEWS!?! sorry, audiogon members, i will try to avoid rising to the bait in the future, & i will hopefully refrain from responding to carl's small-minded barbs pointed in my direction. doug |
bush go to a better school than i?!? HA! in yer dreams, speculator-man! |
