Vinyl vs. CD

Yes, Albert's points are right on, again. I was one of the participants in that other thread. I was first getting to know Albert then, and many here thought I was "just being emotional", and had no real point to make. I will say this, here:.....................I love vinyl, and feel that the noise issue isn't an issue, unless the majority of LP's in your collection have seen thousands of plays on awful equipment (not by a 'phile), for 40+ years. If that's the case, then I don't blame you for being discouraged...............The reason vinyl has the potential to be better than any CD based system can be described in this way IN MY OPINION: If you have a halfway decent vinyl rig like mine (VPI 19jr, AQ PT-8, Benz Lo4, and Phonomena phono stage, and my linestage will remain a mystery), and you compare as similar to "the same" recording as you can find, on a CD in my CD player (you all know what it is)...what you hear is...more "continuousness" to all aspects of the soundstage, more contrast between the quietest and loudest sounds, more "reality" to the way instruments sound, and much more natural and "juicy" tonality thru the ENTIRE frequency range. You DO hear bass (and ambient bass noises in the recording) which can go all the way down to just above the arm's resonance (if you listen in good headphones, or have a decent subwoofer and good room/system setup). Pitches are much more defined and less artificial than with CD, thru the whole range. AND THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCE of all, is that for the very quietest sounds on the recording (hall ambience, etc.), vinyl is detailed, real, rich, effortless....and I DO MEAN EFFORTLESS. Whereas the whole issue with this extreme low level detail, with the 16 bit format, is the reason audiophiles have always craved another "better" digital format, since the very introduction of CD. MY VINYL RIG IS NOT A STATE OF THE ART ONE, but my CD player is much closer to the CD SOTA than the vinyl rig. And yet, the vinyl is better (with LP's that are NOT very worn). Playing the ones that have more wear is still fun, still musical and satisfying, but will not be preferable to the corresponding CD on my player (assuming it exists, often there is no CD that has been issued). BUT THAT'S NOT EXACTLY A RINGING ENDORSEMENT OF CD'S..........All of that said: If I just listen to CD's for a while in MY player, then I can begin to forget about what I am missing with vinyl, and can enjoy them more...and can also listen to more music in the time I have alotted for that evening, since there is almost no "playing ritual" involved (and I DO get into the ritual with vinyl). HOWEVER.....Happiness on this level cannot really be accomplished if you just use a mass market CD or DVD player for CD's, and then turn around a spend $30k on a vinyl rig........IMO. There is just an imbalance there (unless of course you don't own many CD's, then it is the logical choice). AND THAT IS WHY I FEEL THAT TOTAL MUSICAL SATISFACTION, CAN ONLY BE ACHIEVED BY HAVING THE BEST OF BOTH FORMATS, that YOU CAN AFFORD. I also think that most audiophiles are with me on that. Someone should do a scientific poll on it...Stereophile has a vote on this on their website on occasion, and I do believe this group of mine was in the majority, last I checked. I realize that's not a very scientific poll, but it's enough for me.

Sedond, I'll not reveal it, simply for the reason that no matter what it is, guys like you will say things like you said ("just imagine how good it would be if you would just get a better one"). You know what? You don't even know what it is, nor have you heard it in my system, so frankly I don't need to hear what you have to say about it. It's irrelevant, and mere speculation. I'd also lay odds that you don't really think much of the rest of my equipment, either. That's fine, you aren't the arbiter of good sound. You don't decide what's what....thank goodness!

Doug, please do not pretend that you were not making a value judgement based on PURE SPECULATION (on YOUR part) of whatever linestage you think it is, that I own (when you said "if you would just get a good one, you wouldn't believe the improvement"). And frankly, I consider it a pompous attitude, that someone would feel that they are here simply because they can "help everyone save money". That assumes that such an individual would have "all the answers for all possible situations". I always thought of being here as being a function of sharing my own personal experiences with those who would listen, and if they are somehow helped by it, so much the better. I certainly do NOT assume that I will "help", by demanding that others share my point of view (and therefore "save money")....because that doesn't work, Doug. And this is not speculation on my part, this is fact. My point is, your views of audio are more subjective than mine, and nothing you have said is evidence to the contrary. That's fine, you are free to be that way, but it still annoys me, and I don't feel that it helps anyone. Whenever an ACTUAL personal experience is shared here (and NOT SPECULATION), then those who are interested are helped, it seems to me.

I am not speculating, and you are. And I don't *tink* anything, except in the restroom.

Most of my quotes are not speculation, but personal experience. The rest are opinions based on experience, and NOT SPECULATION THAT IS NOT BASED ON HAVING NO EXPERIENCE AT ALL WITH A PARTICULAR PRODUCT, like the speculation that YOU are want to do, seemingly all the time...........................Whether or not you personally like those experiences of mine (or disagree with them), is of no importance to me, Doug. I am NOT small minded, it is you who is small minded. Quoting what I have said in the past only proves that you know how to right click, copy, and paste (those monkeys you evolved from can do it just as easily), doesn't disprove ANYTHING I have said (also makes me believe that you are somehow obsessed with me). YOU SAYING THAT I AM SMALL MINDED IS IN DIRECT VIOLATIUON TO THE RULES, btw, not that the Audiogon staff care....unless of course it was me that was violating those rules......................And regarding Bush, you're just jealous that he went to a better school than you did! You've got 4 days to get over it...