My children growing older and leaving home has allowed me to get back into our common interest. I find myself wanting a new pair of speakers and I’m torn between some vintage models that interested me in easier times, but were not obtainable due to budgetary limitations, and current models with their state of the art drivers. Case in point: B&W 801 Matrix Anniversary vs. anything in the 702/703. I would like to hear people’s thoughts.
Boxes distort. Horns belong on poles at HS football stadiums. Pure electrostatics are brittle at volume and cause very quick "listening fatigue"--i.e., "THAT"S ENOUGH" Hybrids require too many items in the chain and degrade input/output (Fulton Modular J and Levinson HQD, for example.)
Unfortunately, not everyone has a room or equipment that work with them.
When you hear only what goes in, you have to deal with what produces it.
Nothing has change from BC TO AD as far as our hearing. Audio equipment has evolved. My ears perfer the sound of music through vintage equipment. I am no hater when it comes to new audio equipment. Perfection has evolved over every single piece of audio equipment from the rca cables speaker cables dac etc. I embrace all the different varieties of audio equipment manufacturers we have to choose from. Don't get caught up in all the BS hype in audio. Just listen to what your ears are telling you not the salesman. The salesman can turn you on to a lot of equipment to choose from but ultimately your individual ears will tell you the truth. B&W 801 are great speakers . Some days I am more reserved and some days I want to jamm at loud volume. I pick and choose my equipment to sound great to my ears but also take the abuse at louder volume and have the capability to sound damn good without breaking a sweat.
I'm sorry, but the Tekton Double Impact looks as if it would sound truly horrible. What is it: A Bose 901 based on tweewers, rather than midranges, plus a bunch of subs? Jeez! No one needs all of those 14 tweeters, unless he can't design one to take more than a watt or so. I will bet that with the 8 subs, one with a bit of midrange thrown in, does have at least double impact.
Funny back in the 70s my 901s were killer.JBL 100s still go for crazy prices.Carver Amps,Rotel,Macintosh still hold there own.Everything has a place .Sure new speakers .But back then you could get top of the line for hundreds not thousands.
I love vintage speakers. Problem is there are many things that can age in a speaker. I worked for AR (Acoustic Research) in the mid 1970's. I bought some 10pi speakers in 1980. I pulled them out a few years back and brought them back to near new shape. That cost around $500.00, more than I paid for the speakers.
They still sound great, still eat lots of power. I gave them to a friend of mine to start building his system.
Another thing - Used speakers on eBay can be a great deal, for what they are.
Vintage has inherent issues with things wearing out. Electrolytic Filter caps for example do not last forever and need to be replaced. Contacts, relays, potentiometers, Lpads all oxidize over time and can cause problems. Some woofer surrounds deteriorate and have to be replaced. Unless you are willing to address ALL such issues rather that employing a piecemeal approach, vintage is not going to work out in the long run in my opinion.
I thought that with millercarbon shilling for Tekton that we finally caught a break from his constant promoting of Synergistic Research. I guess I was wrong...
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Maybe someone so sure there was great wire back then can name me the 1970's era power cord they would put up against a circa 1990's Synergistic Research Master Coupler? This should be good..."
Vintage will likely require some crossover parts replacement, but I'd say lots of current loudspeakers would benefit from same. One of greatest bang for buck upgrades is replacing common run of mill capacitors, resistors, inductors in crossovers.
There have been great strides in modern production film capacitors, resistors, inductors. Check out brands like Jupiter, Duelund, Jantzen, Audyn, Miflex, Mundorf. Could go on and on. You can 'tune' speakers to individual preference with judicious choice of components. My present Klipschorns most definitely don't sound like any stock Klipschorn. The necessity of replacing certain crossover parts, and perhaps speaker surrounds as mentioned above, are an advantage of purchasing vintage, IMO. You've already opened up speaker, perfect chance to upgrade, no warranty issues.
Not willing to open up and mod or replace, stick to modern.
The comment that 70s speakers were voiced for the music that was most popular at the time was spot-on. That music was rock (the Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, The Who, Grand Funk RR, etc). The speakers were built with full-range capability being the most important factor (no subs back then), while accuracy was mostly an afterthought. JBL was considered the best for rock, while brands like Advent, AR, and KLH went for a more balanced presentation. Mated with good electronics from that era that have been kept in good shape, those combos still provide a sound that has a lot of meat on its bones IMO. My little Pioneer SA-7100 is a delight, driving either a pair of large Advents or a pair of ADS L-810s from the 80s, and I don't feel the need for a subwoofer. A Musical Fidelity A-308 and B&W CDM 9NTs satisfy my cravings for a more refined sound when I'm in that kind of mood. In my book, it's all good and we should just enjoy the ride.
Interesting discussion. There may never be a consensus of what constitutes the best loudspeaker due to psychoacoustics, HRTF and confirmation biases. That said, here’s what we know has and has not changed over time:
design technology (CAD -- construction and measurements)
digital recording and playback (bits)
room acoustical design and implementation (studio and home)
What has not:
anatomical design of the ear (biology)
vibrational excitement of a medium (how sound is produced)
wavelengths of audible signals
unique emotional responses to sound from listeners
I’m sure the above list is not comprehensive, but it represents some of the obvious variables which affect why we might like, or not like, what we hear from a loudspeaker. On the bright side, it’s such a subjective topic that there will always be something to talk about. :-)
While Class-D amplification is the new thing- there really hasn't been very much improvement in basic component design over the years. Improvements -have- come from better quality parts. Capacitors are much better now than 40-50-60yrs ago, same with resistors and wiring. A good basic design can be made to sound better and very competitive with new equipment just from a careful restoration using new high quality parts. Several have mentioned the MAC 240, certainly. And there are many other examples. A restored HK CIT II is about $3500-$4000. Are there any new 60wpc tube amps available for the same price that sound better ? Many say the new Mac 275 mk (whatever version) sounds inferior.... Audio Research D76, At the other end- a carefully restored ST-70 is about $800. You would have to spend -alot- more to meaningfully better it. A VanAlstine Super Pas3 is an outstanding preamp that can be found for $600-$800. And so on.
Speakers however have seen considerable improvement through design and implementation. Use of CAD and modeling have led to very audible advancements in what is possible at any given price point. The proliferation of ribbon tweeters at modest cost has led to great speakers that outperform their price points.
IMHO older speakers (there are exceptions) just do not sound as good as newer speakers. Transient response is not as precise, treble not as clean, a few more cabinet resinances and so on. May people gloss over these flaws out of a sense of nostalgia. Someone lusted after JBL monitors 45yrs ago, and can now afford to build a system around them. JBL understands and introduced a new L100, but is it a good $4k speaker......
My system is a combo of old and new- older amps, preamps, and TT, with newer speakers. Works for me.
If you are happy with the way your system sounds then I would leave it alone. Some times that is the hardest part about this hobby.
I believe that newer isn't necessarily better.
If you are looking to improve the sound - there are several ways to make improvements without replacing speakers. ( more power = cleaner sound)
If you feel that you absolutely need new speakers, then I would look beyond B&W. There are a lot of option especially in a used market.
This guy just loves to troll! One of the most ridiculous, ignorant comments I’ve heard from this guy! I have heard several of the tekton speakers, and owned a few. They actually sound very good. But to say that nothing comes close in a vintage sense, is just pure trolling! Just one of many offerings from altec smokes the tekton very easily IMHO. They were made in he 60’s, used some of he best Alnico drivers made, even by today’s standards, and can sound truly world class in the right system. Bet I’m getting a rousing Amen from many here. I’m telling you, this guy just does this to piss people off. Dont comment to this guy, maybe he’ll go somewhere else!
There are so many wonderful sounding and beautiful pieces of vintage equipment, it's really a great way to revitalize your hobby. One of the things we've discovered at Deer Creek Audio is that putting Dirac Live room correction in the mix with high-end classic systems can bring the audio performance up to that of the latest modern designs.
Some flagship equipment from the late 80’s and on can be had at ridiculously low cost. I wouldn’t worry about recapping or reforming unless/until the unit needs it. Check out the used equipment just like you would check a used car, don’t take blanket statements that all The parts have to be updated, that’s just throwing money away. Can you get exceptional sound from vintage.....absolutely. Comparisons.......well, for cost if you compare flagship of then to flagship of now you’ll find huge depreciation makes vintage flagship super affordable. if you compare sound quality then as stated by others, some vintage flagship was truly amazing with many examples given. Who cares what technologically advanced innards new equipment contains. The work that went into vintage equipment achieved an end result package that should satisfy most anyone. Problem is shopping vintage will require set up and listening which is multi fold more problematic than new. As an aside, I think it’s more fun and satisfying shopping vintage gear, just a thrill when you do find something that’s right.
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