I have read so much positives about this hybrid amplifier that I am kind of surprised when I heard it.
I am in the process of creating an affordable system that serves music well and is at least acceptable in audiophile terms. (Just sold my quite more expensive system)
I just added this Vincent amplifier and am surprised by its sound. It definitely does some things very well for its price point, good detail, quite crisp, and nice flow and pace.
But I find it to sound so damn dry at times, and although it does have some tubelike warmth it also sounds quite bright. Shifting a lot of music into not enjoyable for me. I already replaced the stock tubes with Sovtek 12ax7lps, which helped some but not enough.
Does anyone have the same experience with this model?
At the moment I am experimenting with Sonus Faber Liuto monitor and Rega Dac.
I must add the new tubes have only about 20 hours on them and the Rega DAC about 60 hours. But although I do believe in some break in effects, I have never experienced a system transforming to enjoyable from the other side. (Not that I can't completely enjoy this system, but you get my point)
I can tame at least the brightness with speaker positioning in this setup, tilting etc. But only when part of the brilliance of the airiness and stage is gone I succeed. A trait I am not willing to make. And even than the highs continue to sound dry.
Any experience with this amp would be appreciated! Thanks in advance.
Glad the problem appears to have been resolved. It's strange, though, that the HiDiamond power cord apparently had the same effect on the system regardless of whether it was being used with the DAC or with the integrated amp.
Just guessing, but perhaps high frequency noise was being introduced into the DAC as a result of a ground loop between the two components (the power cord would be in that loop regardless of which of the two components it was connected to), which in turn was contributing to jitter at the point of D/A conversion, which in turn could very conceivably manifest itself as dryness and brightness. And that might still be occurring, although to a lesser degree following the power cord substitution.
An interesting experiment might be to temporarily use a cheater plug to defeat the AC safety ground connection on the DAC's power plug, thereby breaking any ground loops involving the DAC, and to try that using both the HiDiamond cord and whatever cord is presently in place. A cheater plug shouldn't be used permanently IMO, for safety reasons, but might shed some light on what is going on, and might reveal the potential for further improvement.
Ground loop issues involving the DAC and the amp would also be sensitive to the characteristics of the interconnects that are connecting them, by the way.
Who would have thought....the last suspect I did not completely question. I tried all power cable combinations but the one that was completely without the HiDiamond. Tried it on DAC and amp, dryness still there. Removed it complety and so much fell into place. Here I was thinking the Diamond was so all round it should work in virtually all systems:) Audio has a non-ending learning curve.
I am very glad, this system was burning with potential, and everything is coming out now. A little re-positioning to shift the balance to optimal and I am done for some time.
And man do those Liuto's do away with the old Sonus Faber bias, they sound bold, big and powerful, but still in a controlled way. Only when you put on some romantic of relaxed music peace their Sonus roots are recognisable.
Thanks for all the replies guys. To answer the questions, I own quite a lot of cables, and always try every combination to see how things react after a purchase. At the moment I use as speakers cables HiDiamond D7, ic is vh Hul D103mkIII, power cable for the Vincent is HIDiamond D3 and for the source SEEC (Dutch respectable company). The HiDiamond were actually going to be sold as was my entire previous system but to my surprise in this humble system really made quite a difference. I also sold my power conditioner. When I owned it did a lot of experimenting taking it in and out, the coloration I am asking about now really is not something it would have fixed.
I have no room treatment at all, my room is all but perfect. But have been building all my systems over the last 7 years in this same room and never experiences something like this, and these are the smallest speakers I have tried to make work. (The room is not quite small) It doesn't matter which source I use, they all come through quite dry through the Vincent, and often bright. With, or without the Rega.
The Vincent was not new when I bought it. The tubes were, and also the Rega.
As I stated, with toe-in and tilting I can make the brightness disappear, but the dryness in the highs remain.
I do not think I am willing to risk investing in another set of tubes of things stay this way.
I have the sv 237 with rca black plate 5751's and Morrow cables. I have to say your description of the bright and dry sound is not at all what I have experienced. I had originally purchased it for my wife to use in our small living room with some Soundfield m1's and was shocked at how good it sounded. So much so that I sold off my seperate amp/tube preamp and tube dac as well as the m1's and now just have the Vincent driving my Speaker Art Super Clefs (88db) and I absolutley love the sound of this system as well as the simplicity.
The room I have it set up in is not ideal it's untreated and has hardwood floors probably about 12 x 12. I have never felt the sound was bright on any recording. In fact most of the time my wife just streams music via sonos (no seperate dac) and still no hint of brightness.
I realize our amps are not exactly the same but a guy I know in Minneapolis has had several high end amps from Mac to Esoteric and still prefers the Vincent 236 mkll to anything he has owned. Perhaps there is a mismatch within your system.
If you bought it new, then it may not be fully broken in yet. Put at least 200-300 hours on it before making any decisions.
If it is broken in and you want the amp to work for you, it may require you to make several small changes in order to get the bigger change you need. IC's, speaker cables, power cords, line conditioners can all make a difference. Personally, I don't like to tune a system this way. I feel its much easier to choose the main components in a system to get results that I want, than it is to get close and try tweaks. But in your situation, it looks like you're close enough where tweaks may work.
If it was my system, I would sell the amp and get something else. Going by reviews is very risky. Quite often, components don't sound like they say they do. In the end you'll end up saving money and getting better sound. But that's just my opinion.
I almost for got to ask, but what are you using as a transport? If its a computer, you may be able to do a lot to improve sound quality.
I hate to recommend NOS tubes but FWIW, if you can find them, you might like the EI 12AX7E (Not the EG) with long grey plates and steel pins. Sounds much like a NOS Tele, but cheaper. I like this tube a lot and when I can I use it.
FWIW, 2 other things that you might consider re changing your highs, 1)speaker cable & 2) speaker toe in. Oft times just changing your toe in (substantially) can solve the problem. Try crossing the axis of your speakers until your speaker's axis and your listening seat are at a 22 degree angle. This is comparable to facing the speakers straight ahead but with minimum side wall reflections and a change of the reflection pattern off of the ceiling. For speaker cable on the cheap, but very effective try some Belden 5000 series 10 gauge. FWIW. So much for generic fixes. :-)
I do not think underpowering is the problem here, the Liuto monitor is much easier to drive than older Sonus Faber models. I've owned the Guaneri Memento and Auditor M in the past, the GM was very difficult, the Auditor was quite easy on amps, and I think the Liuto even more so. The Vincent seems te be in control.
Newbee, the LPS version of tthis tube is indeed not warm, but a lot more balanced than most Sovteks. And I chose these because my mids and lows are already somewhat on the warm side because of the cumulative efect of the Rega/Sonus combo. I think the control in that region is now almost ideal, and more warmth would make it more fussy I am afraid.
You might consider different tubes, one with a warmer signature than the Sovtek - I've always found them to be on the clear but bright side of neutral. Perhaps some new production JJ's or, better yet, some Mullards. I've used the Mullards to soften up a bright high end.
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