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Vibration control on power versus signal

I am upgrading a power conditioner and was wondering if anyone has compared the effect of vibrations on the actual signal  - speakers and the their cables, amps, phono stages, turntables, other sources with the boxes and interconnects on SQ versus those on the power delivery side- power cords, conditioners, power supplies, etc.

So far, I have seen the benefits of vibration control on the signal via treatment on my speakers, phono stage, amp, and of course turntable. I have only minimally addressed it with my existing power conditioner with Herbie's tenderfeet, which may do something, but don't give the box the floating effect you get with Townshend pods/platforms or Symposium roller blocks.

Logically, I would think the effects of vibration would be much less detrimental on power versus signal, but logic doesn't always work in this hobby. For example, I was told that the BIGGEST improvement heard by Symposium is on CD players, not turntables or speakers or boxed components. That surprised me because of the huge improvement I heard on my turntable with Townshend's Seismic Platform.

It's the only box I have that doesn't float around when I touch it (with the corresponding wires in the back) when I put records on top of it when putting them back. I don't like seeing that movement, even though it is very short lived. I would prefer not to treat the new one, but of course want to have the best sound that I can hear, not just the best in theory.

Thanks for relaying your experience. 
   
sokogear
11 responses Add your response
millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon
12,531 posts
 
When I came up with the rubber band idea the first thing I tried it on was speaker cables. Nice improvement. Next, interconnects. About as good. Well what about power cords? Sure enough. 

This game of how much on which can be fun I guess. It is interesting to wonder why. If the difference is greater under speaker cables than power cords, is that because one carries a signal while the other is 'just power'? Or is it maybe because the speaker cables are twice as long, so more distance for the effects to show?  

I leave it to the wonderers to wonder. Me, I will just do it, experience the improvement, and move on to the next improvement. One currently on my list is to replace the BDR Cones under my step down transformer with springs. So many improvements, so little time.
sokogear OP
1,095 posts
 
What about your power conditioner?
millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon
12,531 posts
 
My conditioner is built on a BDR Black Beauty, similar to a Shelf but without the pretty carbon fiber. DJ made it and gave it to me for being such a terrific guy. Seriously. The BB is threaded and had BDR Cones screwed into the bottom. Until recently, when after going through all the springs I had a bunch of Nobsound left over and so decided why not?

Sure enough they produce the same effect under the conditioner.

Having done stuff like this going on three decades now, and especially with the experience of the last few years, I really find it odd people still thinking in terms of being able to divide things up and say this is signal it does this that is power it does that. If the experience of power cords, conditioners, and all the rest has taught us anything it ought to have taught us there is no such dividing line.

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/april-fool-s
sokogear OP
1,095 posts
 
Cool. Was just wondering how profound the effect is. I know everything helps, but sometimes it's subtle, very subtle, astounding, etc. Sometimes it is hard to notice what caused what because multiple changes were made in short succession and I haven't heard all my records after each individual improvement, and then I play a record I haven't heard for 6 months and it's like WOW I never heard that before or like that before.

Plus, not having one box float appeals to me. 
middlemass
917 posts
 
Don't know if it's applicable to your situation but I've had great results with SR's ECT...4 on top of my power transformers and 1 at the base of my preamp's rectifier tube. Millercarbon suggested that placement and he was right again...thanks MC!
millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon
12,531 posts
 
You're welcome. My pleasure. I think it was David Pritchard turned me onto ECT and HFT. Sounded crazy but he seemed sane enough so I gave em a try. First thing I do is try them where they are not supposed to work. I do this with a lot of stuff, just out of curiosity as much as anything. Like maybe knowing where it works and how well might tell me something about what is going on. But it remains a mystery. A lot of this stuff is a mystery. Fortunately I do not require a neurophysiologist to explain hearing, I can simply enjoy hearing. And I do! Ha! And glad you do, too!
pauly
1,012 posts
 
"Logically, I would think the effects of vibration would be much less detrimental on power versus signal, but logic doesn't always work in this hobby."

Look at a circuit diagram. It's fairly "obvious" why reducing noise at the AC input side will improve sound. 

I put the obvious in quotes because I only realized how obvious it was AFTER I heard the effects of a power cord first hand. I had built, and improved on, ripple filters in power supplies for years and it never dawned on me that cleaning the AC would lower ripple and noise on the B+ rail. 


millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon
12,531 posts
 
I've got Omega eMats in lots of places throughout my system. It is easy to cut and shape to use around outlets, transformers, etc. Okay, so I have used this stuff directly under and inside different components. The best is probably inside speakers, around crossovers and drivers. But really "the best" is not a lot better, it is pretty close to the same everywhere. Everywhere. I put one inside my breaker box. This is clear across the other side of the house from the system. Near as I can tell it had the same improvement as one used inside the room on a component. Okay so then I put one on the meter box. Another 30 feet further away. Same thing.  

Well therefore logically, so I cut some into strips and zip tied the strips along the whole length of the AC from the panel to the room. That is just one of three or four things done to this wire.  

And the comments on my system page start to take on a whole new meaning.
mapman's avatar
mapman
22,195 posts
 
I’d worry about EM fields inducing noise and distortion in nearby devices and guarding against that but vibrations, no.
tecknik
483 posts
 
Rubber bands do indeed work for me at least the issue is after a short time the rubber bands loose there elasticity or break or am I the only one experiencing this phenomenon.
tecknik
483 posts
 

I have updated my rubber bands to the correct size for the job and they do work and taking this a step further I took normal newspaper like rubber bands and put two between the neg and positive leads on the speaker side thinking it would reduce the vibration further and it appears to me there is a slight decrease in the micro vibrations improving the imaging and clarity “ so I tried 4 staged equally apart and am pleasantly surprised at the improvements rubber bands can make.

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