Using battery power to go off the City's power grid

Ric - how much power will your amp be drawing from the Bluetti AC300? The AC300 has a 3,000 watt/6,000 surge inverter and is great in @veroguy’s system but his amp only draws about 90 watts. Its also gotten excellent reviews from the non-audiophiles who push that inverter to the max using it for emergency/ solar power. Really looking forward to your conclusions.

Noise and distortion are the same thing.  When you reduce noise then you hear more of the true musical nature of the instrument....you hear more harmonics, you hear more nuance, you hear more space around the instrument, you hear more body to the instrument.....It is all about noise.  YOU can have lower overall noise and yet the bass could be looser because the output impedance of the amp or inverter or whatever is too high.  Many factors are independant.....not everything is "more detail".....in fact, a pushed upper midrange can increase apparent detail but is actually phony.  A lot of silver wires and connectors do this....I have tested this via straight wire bypass tests.  When certain types of noise go away the hardness goes away.....this can be disconcerting to those that like zippy sound.....or are used to a certain amount of "speed" being present.  An acoustic guitar played normally does not have speed.....I play one,.......now if you bang on it.....that is another story.  I used to play the Chesky CD.....of Livingston Taylor....titled INK......I used to think the guitars were maybe electric because they were so zippy.....over the years my stereo has got more refined and now I hear the guitars so clearly.....as acoustic instruments in their own space........the inverter helps with this. 

The Bluetti is in my room.  I will be testing it tomorrow.....pretty sure it will have much better bass than the tiny Goal Zero......we shall see.  I am only testing it on the power amp as my front end is hardwired into the Goal Zero.....the amp was being plugged into it.....So, just the amp will be run off the Bluetti while the Goal Zero will still power my transport and DAC.

When I ask my friend if he is done with his stereo.....he always comes back with "well if I can reduce the noise further.....I am in"......this is why he keeps improving his stereo......He just got the upgraded power cord from Puritan that runs from the inverter to the Puritan.....he said it "lowered the noise" even further so now everything is slightly better.  Next, he has the new Puritan Route Master coming.....When he changed his wire from his ground rod from 14 or 12 gauge to 4 gauge it lowered the noise mucho......this game never ends....people who say...."I don't hear any noise from my stereo....it is dead quiet"......have no idea what I am talking about.  This is not hiss or audible noise......this is low level noise that is obscuring the signal at low levels and it affects the sound in serious ways.  You go "I did not know there were 4 back up singers....I thought there were 3......now I hear what brand of strings are being used.  Now, I hear everything laid bare like never before"......again this is not hiss or normal noise you would hear from the speaker when you lift the needle or put your digital on pause.....

Low level noise is everywhere....this is why you want great cables, cables off the floor, great AC, remove as many connectors as possible, use my Music Purifiers and Ground Enhancers, use super contact cleaners, super stands and feet, remove or use audiophile fuses, felt around mids and tweets........time align your speakers, use the best caps, coils, wire and resistors in the speaker xover, use Bybee Clarifier on the back of the magnet, hardwire the xover right to the voice coil wire on drivers, etc. etc. etc. into infinity.  Everything has noise.....so removing as many things as possible helps and what is left....you got to scrub it clean.  It is not about dry super detailed sound.  It is about super natural super detailed OMG I am crying and goosebumps sound.  When my friend went from his Ecoflo Pro to the Gaindel.....he was besides himself......he said "It's like the person is playing for ME......I can hear exactly his intentions and inflections.....it is so real"......I think, many of use are seeking this experience.  Now his system is at least $80-$90K......but he cannot stop......it just keeps getting so much better.  My whole system......I mean everything is about $5500.......but becaue it is so simple and pure.....OMG, does it sound good.  Every part needs to be "noise lowered".....tweaked to the max....or you are missing a lot.  EVERYTHING MATTERS......Worship everything and everyone.....It is all divine.  The noise in our minds.....is ego chatter.....when we reduce that noise then we feel more love, joy, peace and compassion......we FEEL more alive.......every single second is the most incredible moment that has ever happened in the entire history of the entire cosmos.........the miracle of NOW.......is awaiting on you all.......wake up and breath in the joy and love with every breath.....you are loved, you are blessed and you are deserving........This has ALWAYS been so.

 

Man-0-man, The (800Lb. flywheel) was there really as simply an example of what is out there. And I guess that most of you do not have the capabilities that I happen to have either. And you would be "very" surprised at what some people "re-furbish" at home these days. Or just design/build from scratch. There isn't too much a body couldn't find a way to produce. Having simply a 'Bridgeport" mill and a decent 4" tooling lathe...

But it sounds like a couple of you already know way more about this subject "And everything else too, apparently". So much more than "I" could ever possibly even fathom to know the lofty depths of.

So, I shall leave you to it.

"Aim small". "Miss small"!

Good luck!

mijostyn,

There are certain audiophile buzzwords that are nebulous concepts with uncertain musical meaning.  "Noise" and "noise floor" are examples.  As a musician and music lover first, and audiophile last, I am interested in tone, resolution, clarity, detail.  I don't listen for "noise."  In fact, some of the best classical recordings are from late 1950's Mercury Living Presence which have lots of hiss.  Still, the detail of these recordings is outstanding.  The issue we are interested in here with all these batteries/inverters is whether there is more purity and resolution from this approach to eliminating distortion.  That is why everyone should be interested in trying and learning the firsthand truth about these batteries/inverters.  Since you have excellent electrostatics which have more purity and resolution than all dynamic speakers, you have the most to gain.  Me too, with my Audiostatic 240 electrostatics with the Enigmacoustics Sopranino tweeters in parallel.

ricevs,

When saying something is better, we should be more specific.  In general, sonic purity and accuracy is associated with more extended HF and tighter bass, among other things.  But the tighter bass is also less full.  If the Goal Zero is more accurate than wall AC by removing distortion, I suspect that HF are more extended and open, while the bass is tighter and less full compared to the wall AC.  Is that what you hear?  How does the Amperetime/Giandel system compare to the Goal Zero specifically for HF and bass accuracy?

I also look forward to your Bluetti/Goal Zero comparison.

ricevs - That is going to be VERY interesting. 

The owner of the property I live on has a Bluetti AC300 that is about 25 feet from me right now......so, he is going to bring it in sometime soon and I will a/b with my Goal Zero Yeti 400. The only thing the Goal Zero does negative is that the bass is not as good as the wall AC (when I run the amp on it). This makes sense as the output impedance of such a small inverter is not very low. If the Bluetti sounds in the league with the Goal Zero but has better bass....that is nice. However, my friend with the Giandel system first started with a Goal Zero Yeti 3000 which was sonically surpassed by the EcoFlo pro......which was then completely blown away by the Gaindel 5000/2 200 amp hour LIfePo4 system he has now. My guess is that any all in one will not perform at the level of a great separate inverter.......we shall see....errr hear.

BTW.....the PS Audio Regenerators do not use an inverter......they take the AC wall power and convert it to DC just like any power amp....and then create a sine wave and amplify the sine wave with an AMPLIFIER.......same as any amp running on AC..

Purepower regenerators do use an inverter.......but run off the wall AC......they convert to DC and then back to AC via the inverter.......PS Audio uses a power amp.

@veroguy - Ok, makes sense why the fan doesn't kick-on for over 4 hours of use -  90 watts is nothing for the AC300/B300. Yep, the MUON is excellent. I went with a linear power supply for my router and was surprised with the improvement in sound quality. Great idea to run your router off the Bluetti.

 

@sbayne  - My system doesn't use much power.  Just checked using the kill-a-watt monitor, and at 75db, my system uses about 90 watts.  I only have 3 components: amp, dac, streamer.

The two b300 batteries provide 6000kWh of power.  I can run the stereo for a couple days off it.  Recharging it via 120v will take 3-4 hours.  But, I'm putting a few solar panels on the roof, which will charge it daily.  I guess that will be a listening test as well - with the batteries being charged, does the sound change?

That 90 watts is without the internet router running off the Bluetti.  Which reminds me - I need to do a listening test with the router on the Bluetti as well.  But, I use both the Gigafoil and Network Acoustics ENO for filtering, so maybe I won't notice. much with that change.

I see you use the new MUON filter.  I'm going to try it.

I'll add that not only does the bluetti provide a darker background, it also increases the realism of the sound.  More organic and natural, with more presence - which is what I strive for in my system.  My DAC has those characteristics, and running off the Bluetti bumps that up a bit.

 

@mijostyn - I’m sure those Atma-Sphere MA-2 monos are going to be incredible with the SoundLabs. A number of years ago, I heard the Majestic 845s paired with an earlier version of the MA2s and a Micro Seiki RX-5000/RY-5500 (I forget the tonearm & cartridge) it was fantastic! One of the top 5 systems I’ve ever heard. 

@sbayne , Sorry, I have not yet updated my system page but the Phono stage is now a Channel D Seta L plus and I have a pair of Atma-Sphere MA 2's in construction as we speak. They are class A and I just checked, They burn 1600 watts at idle. They are going to run the Sound Labs and the JC 1s will do sub woofer duty. So the updated system will burn 3600 watts at idle. The current one will burn 4800 watt at full output. The QSC amps are running on 2 ohm loads. Why do I need that much power? There is no such thing as too much head room. It is wonderful to have a system that can drift along at 105 dB in effortless fashion.

@theaudiomaniac , I may have stepped in it but the fact of the matter is that there are much better ways of improving the performance of your system than battery power supplies for line level equipment. I certainly will not be buying one as I do not have a noise issue. With all levels pegged I can not hear any noise at the listening position. There is nothing to gain. 

@viber6 Thanks for telling me about the Tweak Audio Inverter Power article. That was a huge help, now I have some idea of what people are talking about. First however, I need a new tonearm for a Thorens that I’ve been modifying into a dedicated mono table that will out perform a Linn LP12. After that project, an entry level battery system will be the newest priority. As you know with this hobby, it never ends.

As for my ASR Emitter II Exclusive, it is a beautiful sounding amp. The battery has six lead acid gel batteries that need replacing about every ten years. I’ve replaced mine once so far. The two power supplies charge the battery and the amplifier has a particular setting for the charge while the amp is turned off. No special power cables for the power supplies and battery are needed, just those that came with the amp. It’s recommended to charge the battery about every three days if listening every day.

As for the ASR’s sound, it has a fully fleshed out presentation with a full dynamic range. It’s clear and musical with a black noise floor and a very wide soundstage. A harpsichord might sound as if it’s nine feet long however that’s the only time I might question the representation. It’s never taxing but it’s never artificial sounding.

My digital and analogue rigs are simply plugged into a passive PS Audio line conditioner while implementing Akiko Audio tuning sticks. There’s nothing objectionable about the sound. There’s always room for improvement but I’m in pretty good shape. I also need a better power cable for my DAC and on the note, upgrades happen rather slowly. 

@veroguy - Great post. I certainly agree with your findings regarding sound quality. Both you and Ric use the Puritan conditioner so I’ll probably check that out in my system at some point. Good to see you can go 4 hours without the fan kicking on. How much power does your system use? Grannyring said he was looking at the AC300/B300 combo so I assume he would be interested too. Thanks

I have the Bluetti AC300 with two B300 batteries.  For my system, I'll echo what others have said here:  a noticeable step up in sonic quality, most notably a blacker background.

I connected the Bluetti stack to 6 of my home circuits using a transfer switch (30amp connection from AC300 to transfer switch).  The transfer switch is wired to 6 individual 20 amp circuits in my main panel.  

I have one of those GreenWave EMI mains noise analyzers. A few measurements:

• grid AC:  350mV  (in the winter it's around 225).   
• 120v outlet on AC300 - fan off:  "--" 
• 120v outlet on AC300 - fan on:  "--"
• wall outlet that powers my system (powered by Bluetti):  "--"

I'm guessing that "--" on the noise analyzer means less than 1.  This Greenwave tool makes noise when you plug them in, and while measuring Bluetti power it's almost inaudible.

 I realize these cheap "noise" tools only measure a certain spectrum, but there is something measurably different with the Bluetti.  Subjectively, I hear a difference - especially now in the summertime.

I can run the stereo for about 4 hours before the fan comes on, but even with it on, I hear no difference in sound.  The bluetti is in the garage near the panel, so I don't hear the fan itself while in my house.

FWIW, I use Puritan PSM156 power conditioner as well.  I live in Florida, so power outages are common.  I'm really happy with the multi use of this house battery backup solution.  I'm putting a few solar panels on the roof this weekend.

My friend with the Giandel 5000 watt system is running Apogee speakers and JC-1+ amps. When he had an amp that did ONLY 400 watts into 4 ohms the amp would clip when he would play Live At Leeds real loud......not now with the JC-1+s....he plays as loud as he wants. The Giandel says it is drawing around 650 watts with his whole system playing music......probably two to three times on peaks when rocking out. No problem with two 200 amp hour batteries.....gives him hours of play time without charging.......and if you have a very large charger you can charge Lifepo4 batteries up to 200 AMPS.....He hs a 40 amp (500 watt hours) charger and is fine. He plays for 3 hours and hooks the charger back up and in 4 hours is back to full charge....pretty fricking simple.

Yes, there are a few insane amps that idle at 1000 watts....but these are rare. Even the biggest monster D’Agostino amps idle at 480 watts each. 4000 watts class A?....who has that?

Most people could get away with a single 200 amp hour battery (2500 watt hours)......that is $800 and the Inverter is $900....a 40 amp charger is $250.........My system only draws 50 watts (class D amp)......and I am running a single 33 amp hour battery and am fine. A single 100 amp hour battery is $400.....half that much for an AGM/lead acid battery. But why would you want an AGM/lead acid battery that costs hafl as much as a Lifepo4 but only lasts half as long, is more dangerous, and weighs more than twice as much? The only thing you get is less cost outlay in the beginning. Just get a Lifepo4 and be done......and what is nice about a separate inverter is that you can add as many batteries as you like......and the Giandel sounds better than Ecoflo Pro and Goal Zero Yeti 3000 and PROBABLY Bluetti, etc. etc.

@thyname - Yep, exactly

@sbayne :

theaudiomaniac - you joined on August 18, 2022 and have 72 responses so far. Here we go again. Please leave.

Under THIS username, yes, he has only been here since last week. However, he has been here for many years, and thousands of posts, once you factor in his previous 15 (now all banned) usernames. Here is the full list:

theaudioamp

 

deludedaudiophile

 

thynamesinnervoice

 

cindyment

 

snratio

 

yesiamjohn

 

sugabooger

 

dletch2

 

audio2design

 

dannad

 

roberttdid

 

roberttcan

 

heaudio123

 

audiozenology

 

atdavid

@theaudiomaniac - I know you are trying to invoke a response. You've been doing it for years. 

So you can spread whatever fantasies you want @sbayne? Na, I think I will stay around for a while. I could write 500 tweets and still not keep up with the nonsense so many peddle here.

theaudiomaniac - you joined on August 18, 2022 and have 72 responses so far. Here we go again. Please leave.

You stepped in it @mijostyn. Can I offer you a water hose to clean off. You are arguing religion not reality.

mijostyn - I just checked out your awesome system! Very nice. Your Parasound JC1 monoblocks draw about 250 watts each at idle and may draw up to 1,200 watts each at full power. So your amps, potentially, may draw 2,400 watts if completely maxed-out when used with your SoundLab speakers. There are definitely powerstations out there that can handle 2,000 - 3,000 watts off grid. The Bluetti EP500Pro, for instance, can handle that load and costs about $5,000. Not cheap but nothing as compared to the Stromtank offerings. As to getting "minimal benefit" for going off-grid for your whole system - all I can say is you need to hear it before passing judgment. The benefits are substantial. 

mijostyn - "Doing a whole system based on a total of 4800 watts of Class A power is another story." What do you have that requires 4,800 watts of power? For instance, my 50 watt Class A amp draws 300 watts and the rest of my system including a tube preamp, DAC, streamer, reclocker and various accessories draws about 150 watts - so a total system draw of 450 watts. 4,800 watts seems WAY too high.

My Phono Stage runs on batteries that charge only when the unit shuts down. Certainly, with such low signal levels there is a noise advantage and maybe a transient advantage. Doing a whole system based on a total of 4800 watts of Class A power is another story. It would take a large bank of lead acid batteries, a charging power supply that would have to be disconnected with use and a very big inverter. That is a lot of expensive stuff for minimal benefit. Good power supplies do not let much of anything through. 

goofyfoot,

Just read the posts by ricevs.  Look at his website, tweakaudio.  Click on the golden inverter button.  He notes his experience with Goal Zero, and his friend's better results with Amperetime batteries and battery charger, Giandel inverter.

What were your findings comparing your ASR amp with and without the battery?

Oy vey, flywheel power backup for the home and refurbishing them in your garage? Not satisfied with audio stories we are making up power ones too?

 

Flywheel power storage is for extremely high power density as opposed to energy density. 10's to 100's of KW in a small size, but not for long. Minimum price is very high and no one is refurbing at home. Spun up they are a bomb not figuratively but literally.

To be honest I need a new tonearm so it might be another year before I consider a generator, never mind.

Sorry I got here late. My ASR amp runs off two power supplies and a battery so I’m good there. Can someone recommend a simple DC battery for my digital and analogue front end? About a year ago there was a thread about the Goal Zero but I was skeptical so I haven’t done anything yet.

WTF are you talking about? An 800lb flywheel UPS system? Once you crash from whatever high you’re on please just go to another thread. 

Damn I am long-winded at times!

In a nutshell you have what is a, "UPS" system right?

 Just "tailored" to your rig's requirements. But your numbers are maybe off a bit. "Maybe"? Maybe not.

There is a rule used when using "any" inverters, UPS systems and etc.

 That is;

"The UPS must be able to handle full load while also charging the battery system post an electrical outage".

 I understand the terminology is incorrect for this audio application. But everything else really is the same when designing what is really just a "mini-substation" for a home's audio system. "With an (Isolated-dedicated) grounding electrode" which is Not tied into the homes primary electrical system and/or grounding electrode. This grounding topology, "Which is designed to NOT cause any ground-loop effect, or other types of problems". This can be more than problematic if not done correctly.

So, there is a "way" to follow to do this correctly and in the best manner.  And "they" account for most of what I have learned to account for. Except for one step that "I" insist on doing also. Which is using toroidal isolating transformers, Isolated for each circuit. Located near the device/s for use. And sometimes more than one per circuit! Thats a lot of copper! But soo worth it!

Is anyone here familiar with the "UPS" systems that use the really big concrete flywheels? Big like (800+Lbs.) for the flywheel itself? And with a dia. close to (4') and over 18" wide??

This type of "UPS", It looks like two large, full-sized fridges' put together. In total it weighs about (3000Lbs.). The flywheel is always turning. Powered normally off of the utility power. Not really spinning to fast. Maybe at (450) Rpm's. 

But that was (20) years ago...

450 Rpm's? "Or so I thought". Now it's more like (36,000 Rpm's) with a (98%) power efficiency!

In this modern power topology. The way I have used these systems....

And I post this so that maybe this will shed some light on what is going on as far as this goes. Hopefully this helps some of you.

But this is the future. As in, The "immediate" future for all homes. And this at a "100% install level" and this is coming very, very fast. You have to admit that our infrastructure is a mess and the only way to guarantee good, reliable and clean power? At least for twenty years or so? Starts with an "UPS", which is expandable until you are off grid as needed. "Like adding modules", easy!

The way this works is: "And this is JUST my exp. with it". My home is a bit different like I said above with the grounding and isolation but other than that? The same.

 If you have not tried this? You will never understand the benefits. My PC's run better and last longer. No more hard-drive failures. Lighting almost never has to be changed out, "bulbs etc.". And if it has electronic components? It works better and much longer! And my 'rig' has never sounded better!

I use a "Battery-Free" system. "Yes", they exist.

But, this is how a typical system works. This is like those I saw and also worked with all the time before I retired. And can be purchased "used" now. "They all look new because they were always kept in those IT closets and other such places".

"You may need to change out some bearings and batteries. But after that? Another (20) years of use, and more is left in them.

So,

ALL power in a given area goes through the "UPS" system. Which on an avg. day has a load of maybe 50X the avg. American household. The Idea is that (Any) disruption to the supply voltage has one of two ways that it is always supplying a "Nominal" voltage of clean power. "Low voltage situations are handled by this flywheel which picks up the entire load using the kinetic energy as DC and also inverting to AC any other voltages as needed. In "Over-Voltage" situations, it just switches to battery power. Either internal or external. And as it is being transferred over to the "UPS" batteries OR, flywheel. Once the auto-transfer switches have all engaged and pulled over. The "UPS" then goes to all battery power. But, this shuts down anything deemed, "Non-critical", So basically anything that is not a computer or cooling and ventilation plus fire-safety is shut down because the transfer switches simply do not feed it. .

And the only batteries this system uses. Which for that (good sized) power load take up only about the same room or less than a medium sized fridge. They are only rated for the avg. load "Remember that is explicitly, computers, servers, routers and etcetera", good for about (15) minutes. But the flywheels stored kinetic energy? Another two hours and thirty-eight minutes! :"The generators are supposed to be up by then". 

 

ricevs - I totally agree especially with: "Do LIfePo4 batteries sound better than AGM? If you use more battery than you need will it sound better as more batteries equals lower impedance from the battery? And since all inverters will sound different.....which brand sounds the best? And does a 2200 watt Giandel sound the same as the 5000 watter? NO ONE KNOWS any of this until more experiments are done." 

Ckearthink is a little cloudy today. We don’t use inverters because the US AC is so bad.....all AC is bad....anywhere in the world. Inverters in Switzerland will make the same SONIC improvement. We use inverters because is sounds better. We use Puritan line filters because it sounds better.....we use separate filtered ground rod and grounding for our stereo because it sounds better......this is the reason to be an audiophile.....to continuously enjoy making our stereos sound more and more alive and therefore we FEEL more alive.

You only need as much battery as you need. I am running my whole system on a 33 amp hour battery. However, my current draw with my CD transport, DAC and amp is only 45 watts.........so I get a few hours of liitsening before I need to charge.....However, it is not known what batteries do to the sound and how much battery sounds best.....this is a new game.....only a few are currently playing. Do LIfePo4 batteries sound better than AGM? If you use more battery than you need will it sound better as more batteries equals lower impedance from the battery? And since all inverters will sound different.....which brand sounds the best? And does a 2200 watt Giandel sound the same as the 5000 watter? NO ONE KNOWS any of this until more experiments are done. If you go to Audio Asylum on the tweaks forum you will see a thread I started about inverters. One guy bought the Giandel 5000 and is enjoying it. He has multiple class A amps so he wanted lots of battery. He ended up buying 2 200 amp hour AGM batteries.....AGM batteries cost half as much.....however, they last less than half as long......and a 200 amp hour AGM battery weighs 125lb.......A 200 amp hour LifePo4 battery weighs less than 50 lbs. So, if he bought LifePo4 batteries would it sound better? It will certainly be better on his back.

I I had the money i would buy the 5000 watt Giandel ($900) and a single 100 amp hour LIfePo4 battery ($400 and weighs 25 lbs.)......I am going to talk to the owner of the property here and see if I can install my own ground rod right outside my studio. By the way, a fully charged 12V battery is actually 12.6 volts or more. This is why a 200 amp hour batterey is rated at 2500 amp hours (12.6 X 200 = 2520). So a single 100 amp hour battery is 1260 watt hours.

When using you don’t get all the watt hours...you do not want to go below 10% charge on the low side for longest life. It is best to consider 80% when using. So if you have 5000 amp hours of battery.....think 4000 watts of actual use.

haha, yes we can "keep our food refrigerated to safe temperatures" in the US

I have been to the US so I know you are on AC power my point is that it is so unreliable, outdated, and not maintained that so many audiophiles resort to battery power for the music reproduction systems which is a "third-world" type "solution" but some of you have no choice, alternative, or option it appears I hope you can keep your food refrigerated to safe temperatures! 

clearthink - The US, like the rest of the world, uses AC power thanks to Nikola Tesla. And it's "fine" for 99% of the consumers. Its main problem, in my opinion, is it fluctuates anywhere between 110v - 120v depending the time of day and where you are located. Plus, it has all kinds of noise on it.  Some audiophiles try to clean it with voltage stabilizers and conditioners. Using batteries (off the grid DC) converted to AC is another way to solve these issues which me (and ricevs and others) think hasn't gotten enough attention. 

It is unfortunate that the country such as the US has such an inadequate, outdated, unmaintained system of public utilities that so many citizens resort to battery power to insure reliable, stable, sufficient electrical power and endure the cost, trouble, and inconvenience of such battery systems when the rest of the world has moved on to AC power!

ricevs,

I don't see the point of adding as much battery power as you like.  For example, your friend uses two Amperetime 200 amp-hr batteries.  At 12V, this is 4800 watt-hr if the batteries are fully charged.  His Giandel inverter is 5000 watt-hr continuous or 10,000 burst.  So I don't know why Giandel recommends minimum battery of 500 amp-hr, when 400 amp-hr should be enough.

More batteries means more charging time required.  To begin, my EQ and CD player each draw 20W, so only 40W-hr is required from the battery for 1 hour of daily listening.  A single A-time battery with 2400 W-hr will last me 60 days until it is drained.  Only monthly recharging should be OK.  This alone should let me know how much benefit there is with the battery + inverter at a minimal cost.  If results are good, I'll add my Mytek Brooklyn power amp.  On peaks, it needs 1000W, but for routine listening to my classical music which most of the time uses only a few watts, I still estimate that recharging every few weeks will be fine.

I suspect that the purity benefits of battery-inverters are mainly at low SPL's.  At loud levels, sbayne didn't even hear the fan coming on, but heard the fan only at low levels.

Yeah, I’ll probably disconnect the fan if turns out to be a continual problem.  

This is one of the problems with all in ones.....the fan noise. The probably better sounding Giandel Inverters won’t kick in the fan until 40% of the rated power is being used CONTINUOSLY. Having the batteries crammed right next to the inverter and the whole thing covered with a plastic cover.....means heat, heat, heat. The separate Inverters are all heatsink......and you can add as much battery as you like. The all in ones are prettier and you can carry them around and use them outdoors, etc. The separate inverter/battery systems are more than likely better sounding and way more powerful. Certainly the Giandel 5000 is clearly sonically superior to the Ecoflo Pro and the Goal Zero Yeti 3000. I would not touch another all in one.....I use the Goal Zero Yeti 400 becuase it cost practically nothing (less than $400 delivered) and I have no money for something better. I removed its plastic case so the fan will not come on.......my usual Frankenstein mod.....he he.

Update on using my Bluetti AC200MAX as my power source. I finally got the fan to kick-on! I was listening to hard rock and electronic bass heavy music at fairly loud volumes. I was about 50 minutes into the listening session and didn't hear the fan  until between cuts. I repeated the last track and watched the power meter on the Bluetti. The surprising part was it never exceeded 450 watts which is basically what my system draws at idle. I'm guessing the extra quick power demands is what caused the fan to kick-on but those demands don't show on the power meter.  I'm going to keep messing with it by first, trying to repeat what occurred and second, plugging the amp into the wall and everything else into the Bluetti then playing the same songs as before - to see if the fan kicks-on again or if it was just a one-off occurrence. 

Sbayne… thank you for the video. Very interesting!

pcrhkr - If you love your Furman power strip and Tripplight power regulator, then cheers!

 

Sbayne,, it was not my intention to upset you. Also, I am not arguing. I am electronics technician and know how to build an inverter so I know the theory. I am trying to understand an advantage of DC, to inverter over filtered AC power advantage.  I personally cannot afford the thousands of dollars for extravagant DC to AC inverters. My solution which is totally silent as far the human ear can tell (all that matters in music) is a cheapo furman filter strip for RFI, with 145v limiting shut off, then that power running to a Chepo Tripplight 1800w power regulator 85v to 145v regulation to 115v. Has more RFI filtering. My setup might or might not be the best for all equipment or situations. It works great with my Primaluna integrated , streaming, innuos setup. If you love the inverter solution, then Cheers!

rbertalotto - Vinnie Rossi produced a whole series of audio products that ran off batteries (DC power). I owned one of his Red Wine Audio amps for a while. The LIO integrated was probably his most famous. Here is a video on it. 

 

I agree with DC power coming from batteries and many devices running off DC there are energy and cost savings. However DC devices run at various voltages which would require specific transformers. Plus battery systems run at varying DC voltages. Many small off grid setups are 12V. Many home systems are 24 or 48V. So while it seems great in principle, pretty sure any implementation is tough and needs customization, hence 110AC.  Our off grid setup is 48v and I run class D electronics. The system uses about 50w when running which is an integrated amp, streamer, and speakers with a sub. I turn the sub and integrated amp off at night which reduces the dummy load from about 30 watts to 5 which is just the streamer. 

I love this topic...But to me, it makes no sense to convert DC to AC in an inverter, to power a piece of HiFi thsat then takes AC and converts back to DC to run the darn thing.

If we simply run the component on pure, clean DC and simply do away with the AC to DC power supply, we would get reduced costs, smaller unit, less heat and much more efficient topology. With the increased performance and sound quality of more efficient  Class D amplification this is very doable. Who will be the first company to embrace this idea?

viber6  - if you don’t understand the the advantages of the current LIFEPo4 batteries then do more research…….!! All of your concerns have been addressed. 

Pcrhkr - what do you use for “voltage regulation and filtering grid” to make it “fine”? “Quick peak load” you do realize I’m using a 2,000 watt inverter with a 450 watt load?……And lets see your thermal loss and noise calculations….I’m getting so sick of people who just want to argue.