I heard the 20/20 locally.I was more impressed at lower volumes.They are supposedly 98 db/w efficient,but always sound better with higher wayy solidstate.You will need to move them out from the wall significantly to reduce the bass bulge and their rear-firing woofer.Ever thought of a Talon Raven C or one of the smaller Coincidents?? |
I bought Signature III's brand new about 2/3 years ago. The Bass was horrible, all over the place , mids and highs just so so, I called Legacy and said I need more than two weeks , glad they gave me the extension, because by the third week they sounded like completely different speakers ..have been enjoying them ever since. |
Firstly, I used to own the PSB Golds. Nice speaker. I enjoyed it for a year before I moved on. I'm confused about what you're looking for. Rationalization to spend $6800 on those babies? You've been listening to them for 2 weeks in less than optimal conditions. I would set them up properly ( you know you've got to move them twice the distance you've got them now, from the rear wall and a least 3 feet from your side walls) and if you're still vacillating?--return 'em! They're not doing it for ya. Man, what you could buy USED for $6800. That's a whole other thread. Maybe you might want to consider that. peace, warren |
Warrenh has a great suggestion in buying used; however, if it were me, I would want to personally examine them for flaws, dings, etc. Open them up to check innards and then, of course, listen to them until I was satisfied one way or the other. I would NEVER buy loudspeakers unseen and unheard, especially for that kind of green. |
Actually the Phoenix area has some good audio shops depending on what you are looking for. Email me and will get you a list of what's available. There is a dealer that carries Legacy as well as Dali(Which I have and love) as well as McIntosh. Also, there are other really fine audio shops in town.
Good Listening,
Steve Bachman |
Timo, I agree. I bought my Manley amps used on Agon, and I was sweatin' it until they showed up. I couldn't imagine going through that stress with speakers at this price point. And the chances of finding something that I actually want in my area is gonna be real slim. I talked with Albert Von Schweikert yesterday for over an hour. They are currently working on getting to me their VR-4III SE's demo unit's. I'm very excited about the VR's, on paper I think their gonna suit my needs and my room more than the Focus 20/20. |
I can't believe I'm not getting more action on this...I would also like to hear opinoins on Legacy Focus 20/20 Vs. Von Schweikert VR-4III SE... |
Having had both, the Legacies (non 20/20) and the VR-4 III HSEs, I can tell you that the VR-4s portrayed a better, faster bass, and had a better midrange. The highs on both speakers were very good. The Legacies look much better, and have a better build quality, imo.
Sonically, I preferred the VR-4s over the Focus for the above reasons, and the fact that the VR-4s had a more natural presentation of the music, venue, etc. |
I agree with WarrenH. There are SOOO Many better speakers out there. I am just not a Legacy Speaker Fan. I am not trying to start a holy war here but they have way too many drivers to do what a good speaker should. Dissapear.. I would personally take the VS VR-411 SE's or look at a higher end pair of Audio Physics, Sonus Fabers, or even JM Labs for that matter. Just my oppinion and nothing more.. Good luck!
Chris |
I, too, agree with Chris. It's hard enough to get a couple of (tweeter, woofer, etc,) speakers to work beautifully with each other, considering the complexity (the brain of the speaker) of a killer crossover. Imagine how difficult with a multi driver system. For me, simpler is better, and that is why I go the monitor route. Mabe it's me, but an Audiogoner with a great resume, would make me feel comfortable about purchasing used. That's what the 'gons all about. Ain't it? |
I just went to visit several other audiophile friends to listen to their various systems (and these guys have some serious equipment). At one point we all went by the local high-end store and heard the 20/20's (right out of the box with only 24 hours on them), the Whispers and the JM Lab Divas. Driven by top-of-the-line BAT equipment, there were some surprising differences.
All six of us sat there surprised at how damn good the 20/20's sounded. I was extremely skeptical about the Leagacy's after all the bad posts I had read here, but let me tell you; everyone in the room had nothing but great things to say about what we were hearing. I will say this, if you can hear the multiple drivers in these speakers, then you have better ears than anyone in the room that day! Imaging, coherence and soundstage was simply excellent.
Up next were the Divas. Nice and polite, had a certain refinement to them, but sorely lacking the musicality and weight of the 20/20's.
Last but not least were the Whispers. Unfortunately, they were set up in a home theater demonstration as the front speakers. But let me tell you....what a demonstration it was. A 120 inch screen with some sort of German projector, and excellent speakers all around, we were dodging all kinds of crap flying at us in the opening battle scene of Master & Commander. And the bass was concussive.
One guy in the group has since bought a pair of the 20/20's. He sold his Rosante Dulcineas as soon as he got home from the demo. And he has gone to CES for several years and has heard most everything out there.
Granted this was only one listening session, but I certainly did not hear anything from the Legacy products that day that would support the negative posts I have read here about Legacy. I think it is entirely possible that some of the bad rap that Legacy gets may be from days gone bye, but IMHO, from what we heard, that dog won't hunt today. |
The Focus 20/20 are too big for this width room and that type of speaker placement to work optimally. In the grander scheme of things, your PSB's are probably more accurate speakers, but won't play as loud or deliver the same specific sonic signature. If your personal preference leans towards a speaker like that of the Legacy's, have at it. I don't think that they are a good match for your room and i won't go into my thoughts / experiences with the 20/20's or other Legacy products here. If interested, you can search the archives here or at AA. Sean
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Sean, I've had the 20/20's here for almost two weeks now and I couldn't agree more with you on the room placement. These speakers are simply too big for this room. And pulling them out further into the room and out of the corners is simply not an option. I also agree with you on the PSB's. I have done in home demo's now with PSB Platinum T8's, Tannoy Dimension TD12's and now the 20/20's, and the Gold's hold their own everytime and it makes me realize just how good they really are, for my room/setup. I will gladly demo the Von Schweikert VR-4 SE's if they ship them to me, but at this point I'm really leaning towards hanging on to the Gold's. A good friend who is my audio adviser told me that my front end is still not up to snuff and that I shouldn't even be entertaining different speakers at this time. You see, I'm still not doing any line conditioning at this time. He recommends first running one dedicated 20amp line to my system with upgraded outlet and he likes Equitech line conditioners and recommends the 1.5Q or 2Q for the gear I'm runnin'. I thought these line conditioners were just a bunch of voodoo designed to further take advantage of audiophiles, but my friend has much more experience in this area than myself and therefore I feel I should heed his advice. Also, the only power cord I have upgraded is for the Aragon amp, more voodoo? I welcome further commentary on any or all of the above, thanks. |
Even if you were able to optimally place these speakers in any given room, you'll never be able to cure the lack of definition / damping / ringing that the bass suffers from. This is a built in design trait and unavoidable without making modifications to the design of the speaker itself. Some people may not notice this as they are used to listening to ported speakers. Until one hears tightly controlled low Q bass, "sloppy bass" sounds normal because that is what they are used to. In fact, speakers that actually display much higher levels of accuracy with low Q designs are typically referred to as being "lean" sounding.
On top of that, seated listening height DRASTICALLY affects the sound / tonal balance of this speaker, so one should be aware of this. This has to do with the geometry of the drivers and the radiation pattern that results. In order to achieve proper tonal balance, one would either have to be much taller than average and / or use a seat that is higher than most. Once you do this, then you'll be on axis with the tweeters and you'll see how bright and glaring that they really are.
Other than that, this is a speaker that offers a lot of visual impact for the money and received a great written text review in Stereophile. Many people will be fooled by these factors. Having said that, this speaker lacks design integrity and execution. This fact was displayed quite obviously in the published test results of that same issue of Stereophile. If one has well trained ears, their listening experience would confirm those test results, not deny them. As to whether someone likes this speaker or any other model for that matter, it is a personal preference and nobody can argue with that.
Having said that, it almost seems as if Legacy designed this speaker so that the brightness was balanced out by the "robust" bass output. Kind of like the "old days" of youth when many people cranked up the bass and treble controls or ran their equalizers in the "Flying V" or "smiley face" shape. This allows those that consider themselves to be "audiophiles" to eschew "bad things" like tone controls and equalizers. At the same time, they can still achieve a tonal balance that they find "exciting", "dynamic" and to their liking without resorting to "devices that distort or colour the sound". In effect, the same results are achieved, but done so with a somewhat "cleaner conscience". In effect, Legacy has been able to achieve a "sonic placebo" effect, sell gobs of products and smile all the way to the bank.
Like i've said before, buy and use what you like. You're listening to your system and making that an enjoyable experience is all that counts. With that in mind, others should take ANYONE'S comments or suggestions with a grain of salt. That includes me too.
Due to the high levels of divurgence from accuracy / neutrality in many systems, and systems that were built to please one's own personal preferences, what sounds good to one person in the confines of their system might sound horrible to another person in their system. Unless a system is built to achieve a high level of neutrality and / or the person making the comments has a preference for neutrality, any comments made are subject to personal interpretation and preferences. If one's opinions / comments can be compared and contrasted to "standardized test results", that at least gives you something to compare those comments / opinions against when forming a baseline for your own thoughts and opinions. Sean
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