Upgrade from clearaudio maestro mm to $2-3k mc cart?

@kingharold 

Thanks for the advice, I’ll check it out. I’ve been swayed here to upgrade my phono stage first but will eventually upgrade the cart too. 

I use an Ortofon Cadenza Bronze cartridge which is within your 2,000.00 to 3,000.00 stated price range.  Not only does it sound very good but also its Replicant 100 stylus works surprisingly well to reduce surface noise with older LPs.

I see what you mean. On one hand I could save up longer for a super upgrade of phono stage and cart but on the other hand I really enjoy getting to know each component as it enters the system and I’m not able to do that if I change two things at once. I have some thinking to do but I’m not in a rush. Did you end up going with the Lil Loco?

@durte30

As mentioned I was taken by the Moon/Sim and the Sutherland Loco and lil Loco.
But a Nagra VPS appeared and the “down sizing” and “sleekness of look” sort of won out…

Basically the Haus-Boss never liked the mix of Audio Research and other mix-n-match components… so a simpler and coherent look was easier than a debate on audio function versus decorative Feng Shui.

Hence I just buckled, and went all Feng Shui. But it does sound pretty good so far.
I doubt I will upgrade the phono stage without going through a reincarnation.😎

The iFi also looks like a good option in the lower $ range…
But in the 2-3k$ range it was Moon/lil-loco for me.

Going Feng Shui was more $, and it was used.

@tablejockey 
They do have a less expensive (or maybe more inexpensive?) tube hybrid phono at around $500 so maybe that’s the one you’re remembering? I’m not sure how long the tube box ds2 has been around. As for finding a thread on it, I’ve seen plenty of threads about people upgrading to the ds2 but not much about upgrading from the ds2. I’ll keep looking. 

@holmz 

I see what you mean. On one hand I could save up longer for a super upgrade of phono stage and cart but on the other hand I really enjoy getting to know each component as it enters the system and I’m not able to do that if I change two things at once. I have some thinking to do but I’m not in a rush. Did you end up going with the Lil Loco?

I was very much considering that Moon 310 and also the Southerland Little Loco.
(That later one is only able to do LOMC.)

So some of this becomes a bit of a double whammy as you cannot uprgrade the phonostage and then the cart (e.g. Lil Loco).

duerte30-

Dropped the Hagerman in for the price comparizon to the used Fosgate, which I'm still using. 

Didn't realize the Project increased in cost over the years. Wouldn't know how the 2 compare. You may be right it's not being a justified expense. There may be a thread on hat particular move?

@williewonka 

Thanks for the extra info. I don’t have an arsenal of carts that I’ll be swapping in and out so I don’t think needing to take the cover off to adjust the settings would prevent me from pulling the trigger on one. Sounds like maybe a bit of a hassle getting it dialed in the first time but then like you said, “set it and forget it.”

@tablejockey 

Thanks for sharing, I’ll take a look at the Trumpet. I couldn’t tell from your post if you have the Trumpet or if the recommendation was based on reviews. If you have it, how does it compare to the other phono stages you mentioned earlier? I know my tube box ds2 is on the upper end of entry level but at $900 it seems hard to believe that the $1200 Trumpet would be a massive sonic improvement. I’ll still look into it though!

duerte30-

I meant to include in my last post a new unit also. Hagerman Trumpet looks to be a popular $1k($1200 price point tube unit if you want new.

Your overall setup is  about the same level as mine, so just passing some experience to save you the hassle. Audio gear shopping without home trial sucks.

Pair the Trumpet with any of the popular $1k LOMC  and you should hear what the fuss is all about. Total damage will be under $3K with huge sonic upgrade. Don't get sucked into thinking you need new cables.

@durte30 - you are correct - you have to remove the top cover, which is very easy

HOWEVER - IF you change cartridges frequently - then it becomes more of an issue

You can add the external power supply - OR

• I added very good power and interconnect cables
• the impact is the same - improved details, dynamics and imaging
• Take a look at Zavfino cables for this approach

The cartridge compatability settings are versatile and support a wide range of cartridge types.

The noise floor is very low, even if you turn to full volume (i.e. while NOT playing an album)

If you are like me - just set it to the cartridge of your choise and forget about it.

I settled on a Soundsmith Modified Denon 103 with the O.C. contact line stylus on a Ruby cantilever around 8 years ago and I am extremely happy with the combination - I haven’t looked for anything else since.

I have this cartridge mounted in an Audiomods Armm which brings out every tiny detail in the vinyl.

YES - There are more "convenient" phono stages out there, i.e. where the jumpers for matching to the cartridge are accessed from the outside . But there are not many phono stages that can match the performance of the MOON products for the price

Hope that helps - Steve

Lyra Delos 

@tablejockey 

I’ll take a look at the fosgate. My research on phono stages has been very casual as I thought I’d be replacing the cart first so I still have a lot of research to do. I tend to prefer tubes to ss (in general) but am not dead set on having a tubed phono. I recently added an audiomirror tubadour III SE DAC to my digital chain which I think is what has had me thinking about analog upgrades... 
 

@sandstone 

Do you have the moon 310LP paired with that tt? Are you using the concept mc or did you land on something else? Thanks. 

@durte30 ,

I have the same Clearaudio Wood turntable with carbon fiber Satisfy tonearm.

If you should decide to follow the excellent recommendations above for preamp upgrade and are then looking around for matching Lo MC cartridges in the $1k range, I have a couple of suggestions.  The Clearaudio Concept MC cartridge is no slouch, and obviously matches up well with this system.  Another often recommended pairing is one of the Hana's such as the ML, or other Shibata-tipped MC's.

Enjoy.

Check out US Audiomart. Can't link it here.

If you want a tube phono stage-Chinook $2k Fosgate $1250

I've had both units side by side in my setup. The Fosgate subjectively sounds more convincing/organic BUT not for you if you must have absolute quiet.

It's a true all tube(rectified, active gain for MC) that means tube hiss will be heard in between cuts playing at concert level, or you're that guy who puts his ear against the speaker grill, then posts a thread complaining somethings wrong with his setup.

Pair  a $1K LOMC with either, and you will have a great setup. 

Both units perfect for your next turntable upgrade and the $3K LOMC.

You could likely negotiate price on  both-particularly the Fosgate since it's long out of production. Not sure if Musical Surroundings still supports it. My Foz is 10 years old.

Thanks everyone. Upgrading the phono stage first makes sense. I’ve heard good things about the simaudio moon. The Manley Chinook and Aestetix Rhea have also caught my eye but the prices (especially for the Rhea) would require extra time to save up. Any opinions on those stages compared to the moon 310lp? Also, from my brief research into the 310lp it looks like you have to open the case to adjust settings. Is that as big of a pain as it sounds? Lastly, do those of you that recommended the 310LP use the internal power supply or an external psu?

Thanks

$2-3K MC cart with your table/phono stage is overkill.

$1K MC +$2K phono stage will get you more performance. Spend as much as you can tolerate on the phono stage.

Dear @durte30  : Another +1 for @dover and for the Simmaudio Moon 310LP advise by @williewonka 

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

+1 for what @dover said

Not sure if retipping is avalable for MM carts, but that might be another avenue to look at?

Try a Simmaudio Moon 310LP phono stage - it will be a big step up from your existing phono stage

• and it gets better as you add great power and interconnect cables

I used budget oriented phono stages for a long time and then upgraded to a Simaudio Moon LP5,3 RS (replaced by the 310LP) and never regretted the upgrade

• I also stopped looking for a better phono stage 😎

Hope that helps - Steve

You would be better off buying a better quality phono stage first.

Even with your existing Clearaudio Maestro you are only getting 50% of the potential with the Project phono, and a good phono stage will unlock a lot more performance from your system.