Turns out it's not an unusual tube compliment, but it is RIAA, not 78 equalized. Damn. The tubes are 50B5 (amp) and 35W4 (rectifier). Apparently a very generic consumer circuit cross applied to many things from th late 40's through early 60's Anyone know somewhere I could find specs for something similar that would be for 78 equalization since I've gotten the thing open and mapped out the circuit? Or maybe this thread has died? |
I actually have an old Wolworth's suitcase table I use covered in isodamp and weighted with melted fishing weights I spun flat aganst the underside. About 2.5 kg. What do you think? How much would you spend on a 78 cartidge? I have one but it's one of those old LP mono/78 flipovers which I just kind of look at and think, "This thing looks scarry". The Grado's are nice, $120. for a good one, but I keep thinking if I ever buy a Rega 78, I'll wish I hadn't gone Grado - or do the 78 stylus' not hum with Rega's? Then again the Benz Ace comes with a 78 stylus if you order it that way, but it's $500. I keep thinking maybe I will just disassemble/remount the old Wolworth's table on a proper heavy board and add in a Rega or Robin tonearm. I've found quite a bit of cool Shellac recently actually - Dorseys (Pat, Tommy and of course Shemp), Lionel Hampton, old Sinatra singles, Inkspots... and I bought polycovers for them. What is happening to me... Anyone know how many different settings for the 78 phono stage there were? I opened the Wolworth's player and found some leaking oil capacitors, and an unusual tube compliment.
Looks easy enough to resolder and plays fine now, but I wonder how much better it could be. Thom? Anyone? |
Hi all,
Every time I give this topic some thought, I come to the same conclusion as Flyingred has.
The heck with my 'tables for playing 78's. Sure I can do it. It's a simple matter of having two batteries in series so that I can nudge the voltage past its current top speed of about 65rpm (infinitely adjustable).
I view a 78 based system as a completely different animal - requiring so many different components, with a completely different RIAA curve (phono stage) being just one of them.
If I were doing a 78 based system, it would be with an old turntable, a proper phono stage with multiple RIAA curves for all of the equalizations they used, and ... it would be MONO !!
Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier |
I'd come at this from a different direction. If you want to play 78s you need a table with sufficient torque to overcome the stylus drag from a high mass arm/cart that tracks heavier. That would preclude most belt drives and especially the Plative Verdier with its puny silk thread drive and the Nottinghams which don't have sufficient torque to start the platter spinning.
I would support Raul's suggestion of the Technics SP10 and also add the Garrard 301/401 and the Lenco L75 idler drives. With all of these options you will need to build a larger solid plinth (ply/mdf layers is the most popular recipe) to give space for mounting two arms.
The Lencos offer infinitely variable speed control - moving the speed lever moves the position of the idler wheel along the tapered motor shaft. Other advantages are that the Lenco is affordable and it doesn't suffer the high frequency roll off that afflicts the Garrards.
If you're not up to building a plinth it yourself it's an easy project for any woodworker to do.
I built a new pinth for a Lenco 75 and am getting great results with an Expressimo RB250 arm and DL103 cart. The only table that I've heard sound better (amongst some very expensive gear) is the Galibier.
So if you want affordable now and don't care about status symbols and fashion statements go with Lenco or Technics. If you want audiophool cred and have $6k burning a hole in your pocket then hassle Thom Mackris to develop his 3 speed Galibier for you. |
I gather the Platine is now available with all three speeds. Graham Tricker (www.gtaudio.com) makes a Battery PSU for the Platine. I gather this is now available as a three speed model. |
What's up with no extra Nott pulley for 78's 4yanx? Ever heard any explanation? Other than needing an exceedingly fast push to get the table to speed? |
Haven't pursued the 78 option primarily because of time constraints.
Basically, all I need to do is to feed the controller from a 15 volt battery source and I'd be up and running. The regulator chip can take about 35 volts, so if you had two 12 V batteries in series (for 24 VDC), you'd be happenin'.
The bigger issue I have is whether I consider this type of rig appropriate for 78's. There's only one way to find out, isn't there?
Variable speed - via trim pots ... this was one of the main criteria we had for our controller design. I know too many people who are pitch sensitive and want to be able to correct for mis-mastered recordings.
Jim Hagerman has just submitted a prototype to me of a 3 speed controller. I need to start beta testing it. I consider Jim to be one of the unsung heros of audio.
The intended arrangement is for me to distribute the controller - assembled, tested, and supported by Jim. We're probably 6-8 months from anything final.
Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier
http://www.galibierdesign.com/prd_quattro_alu.html |
Scheu Premier II comes with a two arm option for about 2 large and shipping included |
4 Yanx- Our company, Damoka LLC, specializes in vintage and rare analog along with high end vintage speaker systems. We offer three different 301/401 based systems and one of the plinths that we make will give you the possiblity to mount up to 3 tone arms. There are individual and customised arm bases for many popular arms. |
Dear Demenagh: The best you can do is to go for: Technics
SP 10MK2 or MK3 ( 331/3, 45, 78 rpm and pitch control ). Buy it with out base and you can send to manufactured the base for two/three tonearms of your choice ( no modifications need it ).
These are exellent TT by any standard.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
The Galibier Quatro can be configured with two tonearms as well. I know that they have been working on a change in the motor contoller to allow for the 78 speed. I am not sure where they are with that but I am sure they can let you know. |
Damoka, when you say "one of our multi arm plinths", who do you mean my "our"? Thanks |
There's always the Thorens Reference, EMT 927F or alternatively a Garrard 301/401 with one of our multi arm plinths. These your best bets for sonics and flexibility at any speed! |
The Platine comes with 2 armboards as standard. The motor is normally only 2 speed. However, Graham Tricker at GT Audio in the UK does a bespoke battery PSU for the Platine. He is not averse to bespoke electronics, so he might well be able to adapt his PSU to run three speeds. Check his website - gtaudio.com - or email him on gtaudio@btinternet.com.
PS he also does Schroeder arms and Allaerts carts and he will ship worldwide. |
Acoustic Solid
Acoustic Signature
Redpoint
Galibier
and many others offer 2-3 tonearm setups and pitch control.
The 78 RPM feature may be harder, but not impossible, to get. You just need someone to alter one of the DC speed controllers for the above TTs to handle 78 as well as 33 and 45. |
Don't write off the Teres. Chris has stated that you could get the motor controller wired for 78. The problem is as far as I know, you can only get two speeds out of one motor. Of course, the Teres does not offer pitch control, because one of it's (the Teres) features is dead-nuts speed control. |
Spencer, as you know, I've done several times on a Spacedeck. However, no 78 rpm! :-)
Dmenagh, are you lcked into a NEW table? Handy? Checkout the Lenco thread ("Home Despot") below for another possibility. |
Nottingham tables are often setup with two arms. The second arm pod is an option for about an extra $500, and I believe this is available on most of their models. See it many times on the Spacedeck. Cheers,
Spencer |
I can't think of any that also meet the 78 rpm request right out of the box.
If the 78 rpm requirement is dropped, here are the following turntables that handled at least two tonearms that I know of:
1. The Teres 340-2 has a special base to install two tonearms.
3. The Micro Seiki DQ-1000 and DQX-1000 (both discontinued) were designed to accommodate as many as three tonearms. There may be other Micro-Seiki models that I am forgetting about.
4. The Denon DP-series (1000 through 6000, all discontinued) I believe were purchasable as a core drive assembly. You then made your own plinth + armboards to do the job. I've seen several of these on Ebay that had two armboards already set-up.
It should be possible to modify one of the VPI turntables to accommodate two tonearms. There is a 78 RPM option on the Aries 2 series, Scout, Scoutmaster, and the TNT-series. I didn't find a 78 RPM option for the HW-series (probably not a good idea on a suspended turntable).
Mr. Kidknow |
