Seems from the previous thread that just got deleted Cdente outlined pretty clearly conversations he had with TRL to try to rectify the problem. Perhaps he's now overly frustrated to the point where he feels working with them isn't going to improve his lot. Who really knows at this point? It's basically all hearsay except for what we hear from the primary parties involved. So far only one side is talking. What I do know is that threads disappearing doesn't benefit anyone. Quite frankly the behavior of a few produces negative benefits for the community as a whole. Even more to the point I believe, as it did in the past, it poorly reflects on the manufacturer. They don't need or deserve to deal with the fall out that generally occurs because of this type of behavior or be associated with it. Ship your blinkin Dude to TRL and have them sell it to a more worthy owner. Well has the manufacturer made this offer? To me this is the most reasonable thing I've read since this all got started. |
Now my manhood is at stake! My apologies to the thread originator. Not sure if sending the thing back to TRL for a third time is manly or just down-right foolish. I believe the best course of action for my situation is to go third party for repair. |
Charles1dad, Charles has every right to air his grievances, but he is not manning up and calling TRL directly, which is beyond me. They are willing help, but he is choosing to be destructive instead. It is part of the Jerry Springer therapeutic model which always ends badly. |
Chucky,
Get out of your play pen and start walking and acting like a grown man. No room for cry babies here and members are tired of your alligator tears.
Ship your blinkin Dude to TRl and have them sell it to a more worthy owner.
You are a Bitter Dude LOL |
It seems if Cdente had an unsatisfactory experience with TRL`s products/service he has every right to voice his opinion as much as those who repeatedly rave about them. Glory, what is it he should get over if he has a legitimate complaint? |
Chucky
Move on and get over it. |
Tthean, as I said before, there are two very happy Dude owners (latest generation) in the Dallas area. No issues with fit and finish, customer service, etc. Gallant_diva is one. Ask Paul for the other. His name is Huy, but I have lost his contact data. They both have very expensive systems whatever that is worth.... |
One more vote for Shindo.I had the entry level preamp.The distributor is A-ONE along with their products.
I do own a Tron now and cant ever see owning anything else. |
Shindo makes terrific products. Love their stuff.
Never heard The Dud.
No financial interest in either line. |
Tthean - You can contact me for a less-than-glowing perspective on TRL from a quality and customer service perspective. |
All the Tron Reference or Ulitmate version of the their line stages, phonostages, or full function preamps contain many custom spec. parts made to Tron's specifications. Due to the lead time for some of thes parts which Tron does not keep in stock and only builds the electronics to order there unfortunately is a lead time. Well worth the wait in my opinion. I am currently waiting for an Ultimate Seven Phono. |
RE: Tron:
Why does it take 10 weeks to stuff a circuit board in a chassis? The very nature of circuit board, by necessity of it's creation, is a higher degree of production speed and cheaper costs. Simply curious, not meant to insult.
~K.H.~ |
I ordered the Tron Seven full function preamp (line plus phono) in Ultimate spec with all silver wiring and transformers. Yes there is a bit of a wait to get one but hopefully well worth it. |
Latinsamba,
You have good taste. I`d love to hear a Tron/Horning system compared to a well setup Shindo/Devore. I don`t think you could go wrong either way. |
Just received an email from Jeff or High Water Sound, the current lead time for a Tron linstage/preamp is 8-10 weeks.
Latinsambal, which one did you order? |
Hi Agear,
I should have it in another week or two hopefully. I've been waiting patiently for a bit now because this is his brand new full function model. Longer term as funds allow I plan to go all Tron and Horning. |
"honest A/B"
No such thing imho. A system is a system and needs to be tuned and set up carefully which takes time- more time than an A/B allows. Plus, in your system we'd only learn what your amps + pre-amp + speakers + source + cables + your room do... which might be helpful to you but not others with totally different variables. And I can't tell you how many times I've heard a component fail in comparison to a known lesser unit due to limitations of the system- even Shindo versus higher end Shindo. One can make the analogy to that of a plumbing system... if its draining slowly or clogged, sending more water through isn't going to make things better.
Slow and soggy isn't musical. Musical is often a misnomer for exactly that. Musical is when you forget about the system and hear the music. Gone is the thought process or descriptors. You're correct, 99% of the time people use musical to describe softness, overly warm etc. I would agree that this would be quite boring. |
Ahendler, kool system. I spent 11 years in MN (Maggie country) and always enjoyed hearing them. Are the antique amps able to drive them adequately? You also seem to have a tight and narrow listening space. My friends who owned them always struggled a little in setup.... |
Latin, when are you actually receiving your Tron? |
C'mon now somebody must want to go to NY this thread is just gettin way too good. |
That's fair I suppose. I would have loved to demo both in my system but unfortunately that's not possible without buying. If someone wants to bring their Monbrison or Masseto over to my place (NYC) we can do a honest A/B comparison :) |
Just to mention that the ShindoAuriges line stage is under $3000 new. I have the Auriges with the mm phono stage and it is wonderful at $4500 |
Latinsamba, there is a lot of good equipment out there, and the Tron pre-amp may be a good piece, but unfortunately, Vinyl caught you with your pants down. You heard two "systems" and liked one better than the other. You cannot surmise much from that experience until you plug different pre-amps into your own rig. Of course, I am guilty of hypocrisy here. I have participated in multiple drive-by shootings on Audiogon.
Speaking of your rig, I was intrigued by your single driver speaker with a driver fabricated out of hemp....that made me chuckle. Dude....
Vinyl, I agree with your observations on sound vs music. Endless ruminations about sound may be one manifestation of an unsatisfying and unmusical system. On the flip side, I have heard systems that were billed as "musical" only to find them unmusical in that they came off as soggy and slow hifi. These systems did not produce an effective auditory illusion.
"The Dude abides...." |
At the risk of being flogged let me be clear. I did not hear the Shindo in my system I heard it at a dealer. I also heard the Tron at a dealer. My system hasn't been updated because I'm still waiting to receive the unit (they are built to order). The Shindos are indeed great preamps it was merely a matter of personal preference in chosing Tron. My point was simply that there are many great preamps out there in his price range. |
Pdreher,
I think you misread the post.
Agear,
Yes, I have found an approach that works for me and many of our clients. Nothing is for everyone and their is no doubt more than one satisfying approach. I started into this hobby trying to get closer to my music and like so many wound up listening to sound and not the music. I think thats why we see so many visual descriptors- people are looking and not really listening to the music. Not to mention guys with hundreds of feedbacks here on agon... how would one have time to listen to music with gear changing so often.
Its the 'drive by' comments or the hidden or sometimes not so well hidden agendas I see repeatedly that frustrate me. Thats where my 'pointless' comments come from which Pdreher misunderstood. |
Vinyljh... suggest you brush up on your customer service skills. Telling a prospective customer (even if they are buying used) that their post is pointless will not do much for endearing the Shindo brand to Audiogoners. Just a suggestion. |
Vinyljh, I agree. I myself have participated in that same presumptuous and fickle behavior. An older audiophile friend of mine said, in regards to speakers, to live with them for at least a year before moving on.
Along those same lines, you had referenced the Shindo philosophy of system matching and how it was advantageous to try and create an all-Shindo system along with high efficiency speakers. I think that approach does have a lot of merit and could save people a lot of pain and missteps. |
No, I'm the distributor. Click on Latinsamaba1's system and you'll see he didn't opt for anything mentioned... I've heard thousands of systems at shows, shops and in customer systems but I would be quite cautious making any presumptions about sonics of any of those pieces without living with them for a period of time. Especially picking out what one component in a unknown system is or isn't doing. Pointless post is my point. Grasping at straws proves nothing nor is it productive. |
VInyljh, I presume you are a Shindo dealer.... |
He didn't have Shindo in his rig. He's talking about hearing things in different stores. Just typical forum behavior. |
Latinsamba1, tell us more why you opted for the Tron. What were the Shindo pre's lacking in your rig? |
Latinsamba,
By all accounts the U.K. made Tron 7 preamp is wonderful. Any one of these three preamps are cetainly good enough to base a system around,you would`nt go wrong with any of them. |
Why just between Shindo and the Dude? I auditioned the base Shindo and also the Monbrison but ended up being completely blown away by the Tron Seven Ultimate. I believe the base Tron Seven is in the same price range as the Dude and base Shindo. |
Vinyljh, thanks for the data. I did not know that the Shindo pre referenced also uses output transformers. Very interesting. Well, that makes the logic behind Knghifi's decision even more interesting. |
" I presume it was due to an impedance/system matching issue or long ICs."
That would be a poor assumption as the Vosne-Romanee has output transformers and a 600 ohm output impedance. |
Knghifi,
I`d also love to read your thoughts on the VAC pre compared to the Shindo pre,as these are two very fine components. |
Well I suppose purgatory is better than addiction. |
Silbelius, I share mirror sentiments about the Dude. It injects a fluidity and ease that I believe is a derivative of Paul's proprietary tube regulated power supply and essentially unlimited bandwidth. Most pre-amps I have listened to (in my system and others) compress dynamics. The music seems to collapse and become rather boxy and small sounding. This phenomenon drove me to experiment with removing the pre-amp from the chain. The best, most wide-open and live sounding piece I owned prior to the Dude was the Granite Audio 657 which was a tubed CDP with an output stage. It put most pre-amps I heard to shame in that regards with the exception of the Dude. This ferrari-like behavior does not sacrifice musicality. The Dude is also supremely musical.
If I am not mistaken, Knghifi owns a VAC pre-amp. I am interested to hear why he went with the VAC despite the Shindo "being FABULOUS in every way." I presume it was due to an impedance/system matching issue or long ICs. I know the TOTL VAC has an output transformer to deal with impedance matching. An interesting and arguable approach.
Knghifi, there are certainly no free lunches in life, but in hi end audio, you rarely get what you pay for IMO. Why do you think Audiogon becomes an audio purgatory for many folks with endless disappointment and buying and selling, buying and selling.... |
Knghifi, so what did you end up buying? |
Sibelius, I had an opportunity to audition the Vosne-Romanee when I was in the market for a preamp, it is just FABULOUS in every way.
I've learned there are no free lunches in life and you do get what you paid for. |
I'm a Shindo convert. Yep, they are not cheap (Darn Yen-$ conversion rate) but (and I know it sounds like a cliche), Shindo preamps just sound more like music to me than any other preamp I've tried. My Vosne-Romanee is the heart of my music system and it's nice not to have a twinge of upgradeitis (other than maybe for another Shindo).
Yes, it took more than a little bit of planning and saving to afford what I wanted, but I don't at all regret making the purchase. The craftsmanship (both internal and external) of the product is really something special.
|
There were 2 Shindo preamp for sale for the last 5 days or so and they were gone in hours!!!! They are not cheap, one was $6K and the other one was almost $10K, USED. This is crazy... |
Goodnesss Rshnicle that is funny stuff. I have one more idea for you. Hot glue some Vibrapod footers to your sneakers and the imaging will improve greatly plus helps fight off foot pain for those long listening sessions. |
Rshnicle, is that thing analog (tape) only or does it do digital? How much software can you get in that man purse?
That's quite the babe magnet you got there, lol. |
Rshnicle, very nice system.... |
I would say whatever you go for make sure you have good power going to it. My system sounded out of balance on shoulder till I added good batteries and power, now I have great soundstage.
I looked at shindo cause it sounds classy and I have a pre in on my amp but i like the basic idea of rolling in with the Dude on my other shoulder. |
There are two Dude owners in Dallas. One is Gallant_diva: http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vaslt&1066703453&openmine&zzAgear&4&5#Agear
There is another new Dude owner in Dallas who just replaced his Lamm pre-amp with a Dude.
You could always contact them and swing by for a listen.
I too am a happy Dude owner. When researching pre-amps prior to owning the Dude, two other choices I considered were Allnic and Shindo. I did not hear either but went for the Dude on gut instinct and the rest is history. |
Remote is not needed and we agree.
Meant to suggest this thread's iniator contact Paul at TRL. |
Grannyring - Shindo uses no circuit boards; they are 100 percent point to point wired. The interior of a Shindo component, like the exterior, is literally a work of art.
I try to keep an open mind about all things audio with one exception - Shindo preamps. For 2-channel audio and if there is no need for a remote, Shindo is THE preamp for me. Case closed! ;->
All The Best,
Steven |
They do seem to have a different approach. The Dude weights about 4 times more and the transformer alone weights just about as much as the entire Shindo preamp.
Not sure if the Shindo uses circuit boards at all? I know the Dude has none and is 100% point to point hard wired.
The Dude is all about the sound and offering state of the art performance at real world prices.
4music, you may want to call Paul and TRL and he can tell you more about the Dude and send some pictures of recent Dudes. |
