TT, 12" Tonearm. Who tried and ended up preferring 12" arm?

Chakster, the TT101 is not above criticism, but your statement that it’s “too old” is ridiculous, especially coming from you, and especially since the alternatives you name are about the same vintage. Each of those other TTs you name has its own Achilles heel as far as repairs are concerned.

I meant only the expensive repair even to make it work, not everyone can pay $1000 or EUR 1000 + shipping just for the service to get TT-101 back to work, this is it.

I paid less for all my turntables and they does not require service at all, they are all fine, paid $1200 for MINT SP-10 mkII and never ever serviced this original. Everyone can read the dedicated thread about Victor TT-101 Repair to understand how difficult it can be, especially for those who are not in NYC, and even your own experience can prove it.

I am happy that one of my TT-101 is working, but another one is not.

The reason why i mentioned SP-10mkII, Denon DP-80 or Luxman PD-444 is because it’s very easy to find a MINT condition working sample, and even minor repair does not cost even close to the cost of TT-101 repair ($1k).

TT-101 is not for the amateurs to mess around with it.

He agreed. TT81 TT with the UA-7082 arm, wide plinth with a spare board waiting for a 9" arm (for a new mono cartridge), and importantly wide dust cover! .... $1,280. delivered with tax.

From Japan, confirmed working, no returns, wish me luck. I looked at his eBay store, a HUGE seller, 98% positive, I decided to take the risk.

This will hold me until I turn 75 in a few years when I probably will go for something new. Famous last words, right?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VICTOR-CL-P2-TT-81-UA-7082-set-AC100V-Free-Shipping-d506/264532995172 
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ARM LENGTH

Denon specs for UA-7082 arm: effective length 282mm = 11-1/8". the shorter 7045 arm effective length is 245mm = 9-5/8" (If I get the matching Denon arm for mono). After researching more, I am actually happy with the 11-1/8" rather than full 12" regarding mass, compliance, overall size of TT. It's a move up from existing effective 232mm 9-1/8" arc.

SPRINGY Floors

If I had saved my SME 3009, I could have popped it in the back board for mono. I restored it years ago with help and parts from SME. I got rid of it and the Thorens TD124 because my floors are springy, and the Thorens' magnificent bearing couldn't deal with vertical vibration well. The speed control of the Thorens was cool, but it must be said, as temperature varied speed control was Needed!

TT is now in better location, but no dancing at that end of the room please. House was built in 1951, I think the lumber was not properly dried due to excessive building spree after the war. I could brace underneath from the crawl space, now I just 'Walk away Renee' carefully.

Anyway, I will re-think suspension for this unit.

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MONO CARTRIDGE ADVICE? (need strong signal).

I have my McIntosh mx110z tube tuner/preamp with several phono inputs, happily two MM, and I love the sound of it's phono stage. (I wasn't a fan of prior McIntosh SS C28 phono preamp). So, two arms in is easy.

I also love the sound of it's FM tuner, and as I often mention, McIntosh MODE switch is a great help refining my speakers brilliance and presence controls, refining anti-skate ... And, it has MONO Mode for Mono LP's. Many tube preamps do not exceed 6 tubes, this sucker has 17.

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Need Strong Cartridge Signal

The preamp has hum that starts just above my max listening volume, so I need to get a mono cartridge with high enough output, Shure 97xe gives 4.0mV now. so I wouldn't go below 4.0mV for the new Mono cartridge.

I'm gonna take the preamp to McIntosh in the spring when I visit my photo friend who lives 15 minutes from their headquarters in Binghamton, NY. They are very helpful. Last spring I pre-arranged, dropped both my SS pair (2250 amp, C28 preamp) off before lunch thursday, they had them ready to go the following Monday afternoon. Sold them to get the new tube pair, Cayin A88T (mk1 for 16 ohm tap) and the mx110z.

btw, I just changed the Cayin's 6550 tubes for KT88's. I was happy with the 6550's but I prefer the KT88's.

Elliot.
Congratulations!
I have the EXACT same setup and I can tell you there was also an optional lift off dust cover made specifically for that plinth.
I know this as mine came with it!
You may get lucky and find one or as you say, have one custom made, likely $175 or just over.

It is a fantastic combo and I have tried various vintage mm carts on it and all are a breeze to setup with the on the fly vta .

Don’t forget it’s 100vac so you WILL need a step down transformer for USA 120vac mains, again plenty on eBay.

That 7082 arm is the business for sure!
Have fun!

P.s. feel free to pm me if you have any questions on this setup.

Chakster, the TT101 is not above criticism, but your statement that it’s “too old” is ridiculous, especially coming from you, and especially since the alternatives you name are about the same vintage. Each of those other TTs you name has its own Achilles heel as far as repairs are concerned.

And the op didn’t ask about vintage DDs.  

Victor UA-7082 is probably the best long arm you can buy for the lowest price ever compared to many others (if you can find a perfect sample), it’s cheaper than Schick and better than Jelco!

But the Victor TT-101 must be avoided if you don’t know a person who can repair it, it is expensive service and this turntable is full of bugs just because it’s too old and back then it was way ahead of its time. Not recommended for amateurs.

Look for Denon DP-80, Luxman PD-441 or 444, and Technics SP-10 mkII. They are fine!

We've been over this ground it seems like a thousand times, but I don't think all 3 of the Victor turntables you list have the "bi-directional servo".  The TT81 (according to hearsay) and the TT101 (according to my personal experience) are the ones to have.
On tonearm length, a 12-incher would in theory always be "better", geometrically speaking, but you need to factor in the cartridge compliance, the tonearm effective mass (which will always be greater for a 12-inch vs 9-inch version of the same tonearm design and construction), and your ability to set up the tonearm with precise accuracy, because an error in setting up a long tonearm will result in a greater final error in the geometry, compared to a similar error in setting up a 9-incher.  Further, longer tonearms might have greater problems with resonance, which will also affect SQ.  There is no good single answer to your question.

I decided to make an offer of $1,200 delivered for this old Denon with old but darn good motor TT81, long arm UA-7082, and a board with hole for a 9" arm.

I want Direct Drive, their Double Bi-Directional Servo is only on TT101; TT81; and TT71 motors

I'm thinking Stereo for  it's 12" arm, add 9" arm with Mono cartridge later, maybe Valentine's Day.

I have dusty forced air heat/cool, a dust cover is very important, a big dust cover for 2 arm setup is rare.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VICTOR-CL-P2-TT-81-UA-7082-set-AC100V-Free-Shipping-d506/264532995172

IF Super 12 had a full dust cover, .... I could probably get a big one made for $200. by this guy

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Denon-DP-59L-New-JnB-Audio-Turntable-Dust-Cover-Made-in-USA/182380045189

Wish me luck.

Thanks for the advice.

So, up from 850L tonearm to 950L tonearm is + $300. Over many years, what's +10%?

Difference? limits cartridge type? advice?

P.S. Stay with the Jelco magnesium headshell. You won't need anti-skating on the 12" although YMMV. You'll need phono cables. The Jelco 501 is perfectly good. Don't be tempted to replace it.

@elliotbnewcombjr I run 12" and 9" Jelco 850 on the same table. (I’ve also got two 12" 750s.) The 12" is better. It’s more open and dimensional. If you are going for the GEM, get the 850L 12". It is so much better than the 550/750. I’ve not heard the 950.

Just found this JVC alignment kit. It indicates JL-B44 tonearm effective length is 245mm, 9-5/8". Several places call it a 12" tonearm???

https://www.ebay.com/itm/JVC-JL-B41-B44-B55-B77-QL-5-7-A7-8-10-Y3F-Y5F-Y7-Tonearm-Alignment-Protractor/112624526630?hash=item1a38f1e526:g:LpMAAOSwjShdfjQd

keeping things more affordable, I am looking at

George Merril's Gem Dandy PolyTable Super 12 with a Jelco 12" arm,  3 Jelco arm choices, 750L, 850L, 950L.  new: $3,000 to $3,700. plus tax and shipping.

http://www.hifigem.com/PolyTableSUPER12.html

No dust cover, I would have to make something (which I could/would do).
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Also considering an old JVC JL-B44 which came with a factory 12" arm, integral dust cover (important for me). As-Is or Refurb. $600 to $1,000.

not many around,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys6eWvwfLaQ

two eBay, from Japan

https://www.ebay.com/itm/264512255947?ViewItem=&item=264512255947

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Victor-JL-B44-Direct-Drive-Turntable/153409634015?hash=item23b7ed3edf:g:XzsAAOSwh0NchHAp

Elliot, I have a 9" arm and a 14" arm. It all depends on the cartridge. I put stiff cartridges like the Koetsu and the Air Tight in the long arm. I put softer cartridges like the Lyra, Windfeld Ti and Clearaudio in the 9" arm.
I can't say one sounds better than the other. They sound different probably mostly due to the cartridges. The differences are surprisingly subtle. I can say that I have never heard a Koetsu do bass or sound punchier than it does in the Kuzma 4 point 14. I have a Rosewood Signature Platinum because it weights a lot less than one of the stone models which would push the effective mass over the edge. The Koetsu RSP and 14" Kuzma are a match made in heaven. The Windfeld Ti in the 4 point 9" will track anything you throw at it. It beats all the others in tracking tests. If I were to use just one arm I would get an SME V 12. It is a very light 12" arm and with the addition of head shell weights would be able to accommodate any modern cartridge. I like the 4 point 9 a lot but the reason I have it is that the SOTA will only take 9 to 10" arms. The Tri Planar arms are also excellent.   

I tried "12 and still love it, almost on any plinth the bigger gap between a turntable drive and a tonearm tower looks better :)) First "12 inch in my arsenal was Thomas Schick, second is Reed 3p , and the last purchase was Victor UA-7082. Personally (if i could) i would like to have all my arms in 12 inch version, but this is just aesthetics. 

Practically a '9 inch or 10'5 are great too, but a short arms sometimes too close to the platter and almost impossible to mount on several turtables like Technics SP-10, SP-20 series. 

Some popular long versions are just too expensive like FR66 for example. 

A '10.5 inch like EPA-100 mkII is probably ideal in this situation, glad to have one.