Trying to find someone with a cable cooker in Metro NY

We got one.


Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ 

You’re asking if cryo is different from breaking in, or further improves a burned-in cable. It is. And it does.

A cable cooker does nothing more than play a signal through the wire. Same as when you play music. Generally instead of music the signal is some dynamic wide spectrum noise you would never in your life want to hear. But essentially same thing. You want to pay for this, oh well. To each his own.

Cryo is completely different. Cryo cools things down so much the molecules slow way down to the point they are able to settle into a more stable pattern. Pretty much all manufacturing processes wind up heating enough and then cooling fast enough to leave a more or less chaotic mess.

I’ve got a fair amount of experience with cryo, having started with brake rotors on my Porsche, then razor blades, CDs, whole CD players, all the wire running from my breaker panel to my room, and a whole pile of interconnects, speaker cables and power cords. All of this stuff I was able to hear before and after. Quite a bit of it I had dupes and so cryo’d one and not the other so as to be able to compare side by side. After cryo the cable is so different it needs pretty much the same burn-in all over again.

At Cryo One here in Puyallup the owner races shifter karts. Me being a PCA Driving Instructor we hit it off and he told me a lot about the business. So not the usual bull but actually good info here.

Cryo works great for so many things its easier to just say everything rather than list them. Your cable or player goes in a chest freezer right along with camshafts, brake rotors, custom hunting knives and musical instruments. In goes the liquid nitrogen, down goes the lid, and we wait. They tend to charge by the item but its really the mass that has to be cooled. My guy charged me less than a buck a pound, a helluva deal.

Cryo definitely makes a difference. As others have said its a pretty safe bet all the cables sold today have been cryo’d. Cryo makes a pretty big improvement in detail, extension, and grain and glare. Not a lot in terms of bass extension but you do hear deeper into the sound stage. Minus the cryo a lot of cables would probably be only about as good as your typical DIY crap. Setup and processing costs are low. This makes it a no-brainer for cable manufacturers.

For us though, whole different story. For the benefit you get shipping costs alone make it questionable. Then most places overcharge to a distrubing degree. To get away with this they make up stories about their intricate cycles, blah blah yada yada. Pure BS. Find someone local, get it done for at most a couple bucks a pound, or forget it. You’re better off putting the money into a SR Blue Quantum Fuse.

Cryo, once done, does not need to be done again. Burn-in, once done, only stays done while the cables remain in place.

Unplug any cable, move it around, the materials become disturbed enough that it can take a while getting back to where it was. But we’re talking minutes not hours. Discovered this myself accidentally one time comparing to see if there was any difference between two Master Coupler power cords. There was. Until I swapped them back again and eventually figured out just wiggling one around can mess up the sound. It settles down again pretty quick but can sound pretty bad the first minute or so. Had Caelin over one time, the Shunyata guy, and noticed how carefully he handled his power cords. So there you go.

millercarbon

Thank you for your knowledgeable information.

ABOUT CRYO: Originally got a quote for 7 lbs for $75, plus shippng back and forth. After info volunteered by geoffkait in another topic, decided to investigate cable cooking further (geoffkait recommended cable cooking and/or XLO (?) Burn-in CD). After your explaination, I think I'll pursue the cryo , especially since it sounds like a more longer lasting treatment, but I'll try a burn-in CD and I'll see if I can discern any improvement. 

Your thoughts about Burn-in CDs?

It’s unlikely cryogenic treatment of things audio can be completely explained by “more homogeneous arrangement of atoms” or “stress reduction” since home freezing at -10 degrees F is nearly as effective as deep cryo. There’s a little bit of a mystery here, I’m afraid. Perhaps it’s the very low entropy environment of a cryo cooler or home freezer. I’m reminded of the photos-in-the-freezer tweak. 🥶 🤡 Obvious advantages to home freezing are low cost and not having to wait a week or two to get stuff back from the cryo lab. When you have to have it overnight!

If your next step is to start dipping your equipment into liquid nitrogen, the one after that may need to be your cables’ lap or two aboard Virgin Galactic. It would truly bring your system to new heights.

Just sit back, relax, and take recommendations with a truckload of salt. If nothing else, ask your real friends what they think of any recommendation you are considering. It is a wild world out here and not everything that glitters is gold.

glupson
If your next step is to start dipping your equipment into liquid nitrogen, the one after that may need to be your cables’ lap or two aboard Virgin Galactic. It would truly bring your system to new heights.

>>>>>Sometimes it’s a little difficult to believe people can be so blatantly ignorant of common and well-understood things like cryo treatment, even if it is just an audiophile thing. Nobody is suggesting dipping anything in liquid nitrogen. If you’re pretending to be a newbie you’re doing an excellent job, glupson!

geoffkait,

"Nobody is suggesting dipping anything in liquid nitrogen."

A few posts above is this...

"Your cable or player goes in a chest freezer right along with camshafts, brake rotors, custom hunting knives and musical instruments. In goes the liquid nitrogen, down goes the lid, and we wait."

Even you could understand.

geoffkait,

Try to read my last post again. Or you can try millercarbon’s a few posts above it. Then say nobody is suggesting dipping anything in liquid nitrogen.

Stubborn I may be, but when it comes to dipping things in liquid nitrogen, I am not a newbee.

As the hillbilly says to the city slicker in Deliverance, you don’t know nothin’.

geoffkait,

I am not sure what Deliverance is but, at least in this thread, I may not be the only one with limited knowledge.

Anyway, insearchofprat will decide which way to proceed and she/he will be happy for that. I just thought I would put a little less infatuated view of the proposed options for her/him to consider.

I have been using cryo for more than 20 years for all manner of audio related stuff. Someone has to be first. 🔝 I was also one of the first to use home freezing. First in war, first in peace 🕊 , first in cryo 🥶. First in the hearts ♥️ of his countrymen. Yet I’ve never dipped anything in liquid nitrogen. How can that be, glupson? Or did your head just explode? 🤯

An ordinary man has no means of Deliverance. 🏹

geoffkait, glupson

I did not know anything about cryo, but now have gleaned from the cryo treater I spoke with, that he treats items with a cloud of gaseous nitrogen, not liquid...

If cryo is "freezing", I'd assume that the colder the better - but now have been introduced to home freezing as an option  - ?. Treatment at home I''m assuming, would be something that needs to be redone on a regular basis, but cryo since it goes so much more negative temp, is more lasting or even permenant ?

Excellent, excellent.  I am pretty sure I already answere3d your questions in this thread a couple of days ago, maybe it was yesterday. to whit, all thermodynamic exchanges are permanent and cryogenic or freezing treatments of audio stuff is not completely explained by the usual physical changes that occur for metals and plastics, etc. It's easy to explain why materials are made less brittle, stronger, more durable, stiffer by cryo. But -10 or -20 F home freezer won't be able to do that. So it must do something else, no?

I've got an extra set of homemade speaker cables (12g, solid core copper twisted 2 wires, with bare wire ends) - so I'll toss them in the freezer by the chicken, let it rest there for 30 days - then pull it out and treat it like a new cable (after it defrosts!), giving it a break-in of at least 24hr x 30 days - and see if I can hear a diff from the one playing now...

Nixing the cable cooker idea - sounds like most people with cable cookers don't use them often, and don' t even recommend to their customers that they do it...

You are very brave. 🤡 You only have to keep cables or CDs, LPs or whatever in the freezer for 48 hours. No need to make things more complicated than they need to be. No reason to wait 60 days to get results. That’s the advantage of home freezing. Then let them warm up gradually by placing them in the main refrigerator section for 4 hours. It’s just like -300 cryo. You ramp down slowly, dwell for a couple days then ramp up slowly.

Do CDs too? What other ends-of-the-bell-curve-ideas have I not heard of ? - I mean, things that can make a diff at minimal cost...

PLEASE OFFER - don't anybody be shy...

... I understand the " ...ramp down slowly..." ( in the frig) but sorry to be so dense - I'm confused by your terms " ... dwell for a couple days..."
Please clarify what that means. Thanks!

You put it in the freezer where the temperature ramps down (temperature per unit time) to -10 F, in about an hour depending on what “it” is, then the temperature dwells (constant) at -10 F for two days. Then the temperature ramps up 🔝 slowly to room temperature by stages, first stage in the fridge, second stage in the room. The reason you do not put things directly into liquid nitrogen and to change temperature slowly is to avoid thermal shock. 🥶

insearchofprat,

I really have no experience with cooling audio equipment but am glad you decided to skip liquid nitrogen. It is a bit cumbersome dealing with it. However, it does look cool when you pull things out.

If you are inclined to try, freezer in your kitchen seems like a much more acceptable idea.

Regardless of the recommended way of cooling, theories suggested in some of the posts above leave more questions than answers. You make all the atoms, electrons, or whatever else, settle in their preferred spots. Sound should become divine and maybe it will, based on theories. However, your cable is likely not only metal conductor. It may have some shielding, jacket, whatever else around it. That material is almost certainly not the same as conductor wire and may react slightly different than the metal. What happens then? Is it possible that it will influence the final sound in a negative way? If you look at any of the cable threads, there are heated arguments about all the aspects of cable architecture and then, when it comes to cooling, even contributors to those cable threads seem to forget that there is more to a cable than wire.

Enjoy your experiments, but think critically.

geoffkait,

"Yet I’ve never dipped anything in liquid nitrogen. How can that be, glupson?"

Someone beat you to that way of making yourself seem cool and "out-of-box" thinker.

If I had to guess, it was because you had barely heard about liquid nitrogen at that point. Nothing wrong with that, no need to be embarassed.

No offense, glubson, but you really need to work on your material. You know, to be a clown you’re supposed to be funny. 🤡

geoffkait,

Thanks for clarifying it but do not worry. I have a different career.

You call flipping burgers at Wendy’s a career?

Well it's gonna be interesting to see what happens to the vinyl jacket around the 12g solid copper wire core. Package is in the freezer - should be able to give some feedback early next week...

Thank you to all for your input -  but a special thank you to geoffkait for putting up with my newbee-ness and basic questioning...

I am not sure if I believe in cable cookers.......But some people do and who am I to argue (at least until I saw the price of commercial cable cookers are they kidding me?)
I don't know if the OP wants to burn in speaker wire or interconnects but I made a DIY interconnect cooker for free from some spare parts in my junk box and a little wire. I took an old RCA jack (with four plugs) and wired one pair of the RCAs to the speaker output from the amp and the other pair to some banana outlets so I could plug in my speakers. If everything is wired correctly when you plug in your interconnect it completes the circuit and you can play your speakers thru your interconnects. You don’t have to play it loud (and you shouldn’t) but even when you can barely hear the music in the room you are putting 100-1000x more power thru the interconnects than a line level output.

This is kind of hard to describe but I posted some pictures on the Polk forum a while back that should clear things up. Interestingly there wasn’t the least bit of interest there. Either they don’t believe in cookers or they already spent their $1000 for one.

https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/187224/diy-interconnect-cooker#latest

It is pure nonsense but if you pay me enough I will buy one and cook your stuff for you and charge accordingly. Since you want to waste money on spurious things why not send it to me?
  Being serious here for a moment. What makes you think this is even a real thing to do except reviews from high end audio sales people or columnists with conflicts of interest who get rewarded for kind words about silly things? I swear there is more snake oil in audio cables than any other aspect of audio. True Golden Ear 1% nonsense.

geoffkait,

"You call flipping burgers at Wendy’s a career?"

Yes, I would call it a career.

Good...for...you...glubson. You’re ..very...in-de-pen-dent!  🤡

mahlman96
It is pure nonsense but if you pay me enough I will buy one and cook your stuff for you and charge accordingly. Since you want to waste money on spurious things why not send it to me?

Being serious here for a moment. What makes you think this is even a real thing to do except reviews from high end audio sales people or columnists with conflicts of interest who get rewarded for kind words about silly things? I swear there is more snake oil in audio cables than any other aspect of audio. True Golden Ear 1% nonsense.

>>>>>>You know, there’s such as thing as being overly skeptical. There’s also fake skepticism. Thanks for being serious. 🤡

geoffkait,

I am quite independent. Thanks for the compliment.

I do hope that insearchofprat finds fun in her/his experiment. Low investement and quick results. Whatever the results may be.

You are to be commended for recommending simple and easy approach.

...OK NOW KIDS - settle down...

No matter what either of you (or anyone by that matter) say: do whatever it is and evaluate the result. Reminds me of the guy who built a boat hull out of concrete - he got a result which narrowed down of his future options...

insearchofprat,

What option did he have to abandon?

... using poured concrete; he ended up with moulded fiberglass...

Huh, I wonder what he did with unsuccessful attempt. Some kind of art installation in the local park?

...don't know, can't say - happened in what feels like another lifetime ago

...Day One of wire in the freezer ...

Brer Rabbit and Tar Baby episode 12 currently underway. 🤡

I was not that far off with my "art installation in the local park" idea. It is a park and it is local for someone.


https://www.dcr.virginia.gov/state-parks/blog/the-lure-of-kiptopeke

" You know, there’s such as thing as being overly skeptical. There’s also fake skepticism. Thanks for being serious. 🤡 "
  Not quite sure what this implies but the skepticism is not fake. I for the life of me can't understand the pursuit of fallacies with large amounts of money on items that would never pass a true blind test.
   I suppose a set of those nice beeswax impregnated fuses would do nicely and then a new super duper power cord and then new house wiring and outlet boxes and of course a true balanced output generator isolated from the utility power grid since you can't replace the signal degrading conductors from the power plant to the house.

Fake concern on your part. Fake skepticism, too. The sarcasm appears to be real, however. No offense to you personally.

"Not quite sure what this implies..."

Nobody knows, but it gets repeated quite often around here. Fake wisdom, or something like that.

On the other hand, chasing improvement by whatever is being discussed here is a very benign hobby. Nobody gets hurt. Unless you dip equipment in liquid nitrogen and do not have appropriate gloves. That is where the line may need to be drawn. And it has been, at least on this thread.

I’ve been using the XLO CD for years.
I’ve used it to burn in cables, tubes and equipment
It works, Right now I’m burning a couple of new tubes in my preamp.
CD player to preamp. preamp on, amps off.
Depending on the item, I’ve heard a difference in 24 hours.
I’ll burn in a cable for 20 -30 days. Track 8 on repeat.
Morrow audio has a blurb about burning in cables, It’s their "Cable owners manual". List the sequence for burning in cables - what equipment you need on or off to burn in cables in the system. Scroll down to the "break in" section. Talks about their cables but the methodology is the same.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0196/5791/6480/files/Cable_owners_manual.pdf?4458
Have a digital cable coming from them this week. I’ll be burning it in for at least 20days --- 480 hours. I find 500 plus hours starts to get cables to a good enveloping soundstage.

Very few if any cable manufacturers burn in their cables which is perfectly understandable unless they were trying to win contests. Aren’t they all trying to win contests? 🤡 They miss an opportunity by not doing so, since when exhibitors use brand new cables of some brand or another at high end shows they shoot themselves in the foot. It wouldn’t take too much effort to incorporate burn-in into the whole manufacturing process, just like they do with cryogenic treatment and directionality. Bob Crump of TG Audio fame burned in his cables and cords for 30 days on a M.O.B.I.E. Maximum Overdrive Burn-In Equipment device, which I got from Bob on some trade deal we did along with his speaker cables.

" Fake concern on your part. Fake skepticism, too. The sarcasm appears to be real, however. No offense to you personally. "
  Well you got me on the concern part as I don't have any. What I do have is a fascination for the comic theater of the absurd audio presents at times as otherwise normal people go off the rails. Skepticism is real too as things that can't be proven except by opinions has no value to me and you bet the sarcasm is real. No offense taken by the way.

  Later this month I am going to a teaching session by the chief engineer for Klipsch Speakers. Day one is "Why Paul Klipsch did what he did" and day two is "Why Roy Delgado does what he does". Roy is the guy behind some fabulous equipment and best in class cinema all horn systems which sound terrific no matter where you use them. These are the kinds of people to listen too as far as I am concerned and he has no time for snake oil like cable burners.
  But still I get fascinated with the power of advertising and the thought there is a sucker born every minute. People actually believe this stuff and so just like car wrecks I look as I drive by.

HaHaHa I wonder how the cookers would break these in?
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis92cei

Just send me all your cables and $500 and I'll bathe them in himalayan salt, freeze them to -10c during the next full moon and send them back. Guaranteed to give you your money's worth. 

" Just send me all your cables and $500 and I'll bathe them in himalayan salt, freeze them to -10c during the next full moon and send them back. Guaranteed to give you your money's worth. "
 NO wait, send them to me and I will do that and send them back in an embossed gold lame box. For an extra $500 I will personalize your gold lame box with your name and date of birth of your super audio conductors!!!