millercarbon
Thank you for your knowledgeable information.
ABOUT CRYO: Originally got a quote for 7 lbs for $75, plus shippng back and forth. After info volunteered by geoffkait in another topic, decided to investigate cable cooking further (geoffkait recommended cable cooking and/or XLO (?) Burn-in CD). After your explaination, I think I'll pursue the cryo , especially since it sounds like a more longer lasting treatment, but I'll try a burn-in CD and I'll see if I can discern any improvement.
Your thoughts about Burn-in CDs?
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... I understand the " ...ramp down slowly..." ( in the frig) but sorry to be so dense - I'm confused by your terms " ... dwell for a couple days..."
Please clarify what that means. Thanks! |
Well it's gonna be interesting to see what happens to the vinyl jacket around the 12g solid copper wire core. Package is in the freezer - should be able to give some feedback early next week...
Thank you to all for your input - but a special thank you to geoffkait for putting up with my newbee-ness and basic questioning... |
geoffkait, glupson
I did not know anything about cryo, but now have gleaned from the cryo treater I spoke with, that he treats items with a cloud of gaseous nitrogen, not liquid...
If cryo is "freezing", I'd assume that the colder the better - but now have been introduced to home freezing as an option - ?. Treatment at home I''m assuming, would be something that needs to be redone on a regular basis, but cryo since it goes so much more negative temp, is more lasting or even permenant ? |
I've got an extra set of homemade speaker cables (12g, solid core copper twisted 2 wires, with bare wire ends) - so I'll toss them in the freezer by the chicken, let it rest there for 30 days - then pull it out and treat it like a new cable (after it defrosts!), giving it a break-in of at least 24hr x 30 days - and see if I can hear a diff from the one playing now...
Nixing the cable cooker idea - sounds like most people with cable cookers don't use them often, and don' t even recommend to their customers that they do it... |
...Day One of wire in the freezer ... |
Do CDs too? What other ends-of-the-bell-curve-ideas have I not heard of ? - I mean, things that can make a diff at minimal cost...
PLEASE OFFER - don't anybody be shy... |
...OK NOW KIDS - settle down... |
No matter what either of you (or anyone by that matter) say: do whatever it is and evaluate the result. Reminds me of the guy who built a boat hull out of concrete - he got a result which narrowed down of his future options... |
...don't know, can't say - happened in what feels like another lifetime ago
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... using poured concrete; he ended up with moulded fiberglass... |
... Speaker wire is now entering the DWELL PHASE IN THE REFRIG for the next couple of days...
geoffkait: I'm wondering: Once I install the speaker cable, have I now made it directional for future use? Do I need to tag the direction of connection ( like my interconnects are labelled directionally)? |
...and mailman: if you ever achieve what you propose in last paragraph of 10/10 -11:56 - PLEASE contact me... |
geoffkait: thank you for your quick reply - and thanks for not being snarky or making me feel dumb... |
glupson
It appears this is a very specialized piece of equipment that costs New about $1000 ( +tax and shipping? no vintage availabe LOL!!); no idea how many out there but for an audiophile, I would think this could be the Big Holiday Gift (LOL!) for the person who has everything and knows everything...
Only 2 replys REALLY EARLY in the forum replys. Closest to me ( in Jersey City NJ) said he could do it for $200 (I assumed the price was for an 8' pair of my homemade speaker wires and an interconnect) and then he suggested that he could let me have a REAL DESIGNED speaker cable for a reduced price of $350 (used or old? - unknown; 8'WireWorld normally $500...) ...
Still wonder why cable mnfs. don't just do this as part of their process...
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... One more day in the frig as the dwell down continues... Tomorrow afternoon the wires (and short jumper lengths I made) will come out and lie around in the stereo room, resting (like the recommendation for oven roasted meat) for a couple of days before they go back into the system.
geoffkait: will the treated wires need a break-in period again? if so, how long do you recommend? I am presently running another identical set - so should I Immediately hear a difference once I swap them in?
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...they are now resting under a quilt... Please recommend fluid/s to wipe down (bare wire ends) and insure "clean/ed" connections. |
Getting back abit closer to topic: homemade speaker cable of 12g solid core copper wire, simply twisted, is now out of the 'refrigerator' and lying straightened out on the floor in the stereo room, resting (along with the short lengths to be used as jumpers)... After I put the "treated" speaker cables and jumpers into the stereo system, I will repeat the "freezer" treatment for the other pair of speaker cables I have been using ( so I can compare system with jumpers vs true bi-wired...) |
I don't know what to expect - that's why I'm experimenting with it, before I consider spending a lot more $ on another "guess" ... You/I can always spend more - I' m trying to maximize what I've got.
I don't/won't really know until I install the second set of wires so the speakers are truly bi-wired; beginning treatment on 2nd set now...
May compare single set with jumpers (installed now) against double bi-wires... |
mahlman
One of my audio blunders regards 3 items: University S6 speakers played with a McIntosh MA-2105 (no preamp), and Acoustat 2+2s: got rid of all over the years, and would go back in a heartbeat, especially to the Univ/McI combo sans preamp...
Regarding the "frozen" speaker cables with jumpers: sound good so far - obviously different than before. DON'T CARE WHY - but it is noticeable to me. Notes to follow... |
Evaluating the effects on the sound after in-freezer treatment of my homemade 12gauge Solid Core Copper vinyl-jacketed speaker cables and jumpers: 2-8' lengths, twisted; connections to JOB INT and GERSHMAN AVANT GARDE RX-20 as bare wire.
Immediately apparent:
Increased sound level (from same vol setting)
Wider and deeper sound; more 'layered' sound
More focused sound: More 'air' around instruments and voices in the sound stage; more defined sound
Cleaner, clearer (?) sound; appears to have faster presentation
Increased PRaT: more rhymic, toe-tapping, head-bobbing
Eagerly looking forward to comparing speaker cables with jumpers to true individual bi-wire...
So impressed with the sound changes I hear - over time, I will treat interconnects and power cords to a couple days in the freezer and frig...
Modifying discussion: has anybody else attempted the home freezer treatment?
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glupson
Just because I critically listen doesn't mean that any of the 'improvements' listed are hugh - but if I hear 'um, I hear 'um. Remember: I'm working with $7 worth of 12g solid core copper, vinyl-jacketed wire made into a homemade pair of twisted wires speaker cable - so my improvements could be enormous! - or they could still be well below the WireWorld $350 speaker cables presentation, offered to me by a seller who has a cable cooker, rarely used, but offered to cook my cables for $200.
My electronics are good: vintage Marantz SA-8001 SACD Player, JOB INT Integrated Amp and vintage Gershman Avant Garde RX-20s; interconnect from CD to INT is (again) vintage Harmonic Technologies Pro-Silway MKlll (using DAC in the Marantz) or Toslink plastic fiber Optical Cable into the JOB INC (using the DAC in it). Power Cords are no-name from a vintage purchase to the Marantz and the Goldmund/JOB Sweetcord into the JOB... MY SYSTEM was around $6500 (+ speaker wire...)
Doing the experiment obviously proves to me that you should not simply reject an idea just because it seems ludicrous - you just don't know until you experiment and find out for yourself. Sometimes the problem is that people are afraid of looking foolish by trying something that they reason IT JUST CAN'T MAKE A SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE!
AND just because my cheapo speaker cable reacted well to a freezer treatment doesn't mean that a complex specifically designed cable would react as well (and in the listeners opinion - improve the cables performance) - or does it? You (or anyone) can't tell me either way UNTIL you/they try it. AND MAKE THEIR OWN EVALUATION!
This experiment leads me to try almost any other treatment with other new sets of the same twisted wire: Cable-cooked, Cry-frozen...why not?
My system has been improved but I can't tell you by how many $$$ - I don't care about that. My system is more enjoyable and I am very happy to sit back and let it play for now... |
glupson
Maybe a cable cooker is such a secret item, that if you won' t pay $200 to try it, or spring for the unit itself for $1000 - you are just SOOL...
BUT I am truly sorry to hear your reluctance to try something just because you don't want geoffkait to be right. Give the guy a break - he instructed me and motivated me to try the 'freezer' method... Again: Thanks geoffkait... |
mahlman
I never turn my integrated or my CD off: they are either in rest mode or playing music...
Taking your other comments with a critical eye.
I think I'm gonna let the electrons do whatever they do...
But I am unafraid to try uncommon materials and methods:
Maybe sound is affected - just by my interior design 'intuition' of having several different types and sizes of crystals on the integrated amp, specifically (logistically?) placed above the power cord connection, and above the CD drawer... Or Maybe its my use of tennis bàlls in Tropicana Yellow Plastic Bottle Tops, for isolation with rubber and particleboard 2" squares below each equipment foot, on top of 2" Pink Insulation Foam Board. Speakers with the same isolation... My friend ( with the spectacular custom Italian speakers, All Naim electronics, top-of-the-line Luna cables, space-age-looking 200 lb turntable and rock-solid custom equipment table/rack = about a $400,000+ system) laughs at my puny wacko music maker - but it makes me happy. AND THAT TO ME IS WHAT IT'S ALL ABOUT! |
mahlman
Thanks for the chuckles! - you had me laughing line by line...
Who the $#%& is Jeff Merwin? Maybe he has a cable cooker I could borrow, or works in a cryo place? If you have contact info for him, I'll make the effort to contact him (and of course follow his recommendations to the letter...).
Believe that I have met most requirements as you stated - but in trying a paver on top of the CD player, it slipped and now have a jagged hole in the top (thank goodness its not a affected the tray mechanism). Cannot use pavers on top of speakers - speakers have a pyramidal shape and are difficult to balance them on top (tried shock-cording them, from top across the base - but with heavy drum solos they rock precipitatiously ). Would send pics, which would make You Chuckle - especially with the yellow tennis balls (Must Be New - and everybody knows that the Yellow ones hold the internal pressure better and longer) in the Orange Plastic Juice Container tops, on the Pink board insulation. Colorful and rather Post-Modern architectural looking (like a Portland Oregon building)... But the most important thing is IT SOUNDS REALLY GOOD! |
...or at lease sounds good to me... |
Glupson, geoffkait
...it's a shame that I can gleen reasonable, useful information from you both - but neither of you can avoid yelling "... ON GUARD! Prepare to die ..." at each other!
Maybe I should get back into topic by beginning to ask about wire treatment via CD burn-in: reactions of those who have used it and conclusions... |
... Although I have a plethora of defrosted food from the freezer I need to use (see below *) - I have decided not to invite any of you guys over for an evaluation of my system, and have lunch (even though it would be a free meal for you folks, we'd never be able to agree on a menu - let alone condiments or dessert!)...
* Created room in the frig ( is reefer a better term?) so there's more in the freezer 'freezing' (cooking?) including a power cord, a pair of silver interconnects and the other pair of speaker cables and jumpers. Tick-tock... |
mahlman
...will try to use 'Refrig' or 'Freezer' or 'Icebox' in an attempt to keep minds on topic... |
...so here I am now, after " listening" more intently, with the jumpers I made of the same wire: the biggest increased has been in what I would describe as 'realness' - that jump you experience from a live presentation. Using the CD 'Blood Sweat and Tears' : the horns are 'more real', brassier with more 'there' - and the percussion presents more clearly ( sharper) and cleaner; the bass is more articulated and precise, and the soundstage is deeper and wider. Surprisingly, the vocals although are more layered as well, move up and back, deeper into the sound stage. Again - in a live presentation - the brass, horns and percussion would probably be more prevalent than the voice (abit unbalanced since the blare of as horn or the strike of of a cymbal, the kick of a bass drum "blurt" themselves completely seperate in volume and punch of a vocal) and I find the music is presented this way - but the bass guitar continues integrated, present yet not necessarily calling attention to itself. Guitar solos and certain elements within the music are 'accentuated' by the recording engineer - and as I had stated in as previous entry - there is more "realness" to the recording... This realness I refer to are not quite the same as the realness presented in a live performance - but are as 'close your eyes' realness of the "music" you are listening to...
WOW! I can hardly wait to compare the true bi-wired setup when the next set is defrosted and placed in. More to follow as it develops... |
If I purchase a cable cooker - is there anyone, in the tri-state area, are interested in having you cables, new or in use, cooked? |
