After speaking to Paul at TRL I am very curious to hear from those who own this unit what improvements do you hear with the player before and after the mod.
The SA-14 sounds weak in the bass and has no dynamics in comparison to some players like the Sony Scd-1 in stock form. Has anyone compared the TRL Sa-14 to the Sony Scd-1?
Well, when Paul and Brian said they had been doing continued analysis and evaluation of the SA14 and had uncovered additional exciting upgrades to the existing mod*****they wanted to do for free*****I couldn't get to Fedex quick enough. They told me they were going to offer it to all SA14 past mod customers, but I would get to be one of the first if I wanted.
I just got it back this week. Yes, the music jumps out of blackness. It is faster and handles transients and dynamics easier now. The midrange is more fleshed out and has more authority than before. Music simply sounds more real. I only have my unit a little over halfway broken in so I can expect some continued changes.
This thing was already very very special before I sent it back to Summer Camp at TRL. I was happy as hell already. Appears to be a very exciting and not subtle upgrade and the fact they are doing it for free is quite a statement about them.
TRL Family: I just installed my SA-14 after the TRL mod and gave it a quick hour listen. The guys left my player on a redbook CD on repeat with a load on the outputs for around 4 days before I picked it up. So, it is still very fresh, if you know what I mean.
Initial impressions are very impressive. The dynamics jump right out at you. The background is very black and tightly focused. I should stop myself first and let you all know that Paul, Brian and Joel have came up with some new mods for the SA-14. Brian and Paul are e-mailing past TRL SA-14 owners informing them of the latest mods and letting them know that they will install the updated mods for TRL SA-14 owners FREE OF CHARGE, you only pay shipping each way. Tony Riordan, our very own Lkdog, was the first to have this update done. I waited and had their entire mod done at once, this last week, when I was gone on vacation. I should note that the TRL SA-14 mod is still only $550, even with the "new areas addressed".
I have heard the TRL SA-14 without and with the latest mods. The latest mod really improves the dynamics, has a little more low midrange/high bass warmth and has better soundstaging. Focus is improved too, which is probably tied in with the lowered background noise.
To me this was already an incredible bargain. They aren't charging a premium for the recent updates and are doing the mods free for past TRL SA-14 owners. This speaks volumes about TRL as a company and about the Weitzel's in general. This type of customer service is unheard of anymore, regardless of the Industry.
I'm going to get back to my new toy ... it's calling for me.
Lkdog- You are so right on the "a great LP" will hit the target. So many more great LP sources than what I have seen on modern day redbook. Your set up sounds like its cooking though and I would love to get back into vinyl again.
Jes45- Hope you are trying cycle-burning the SA-14. Play system 24 hours 3 days then turn completely off for 1 whole day. Slower but nice results IMHO.
La45- Yes, the mediums are different for sure. My Technics has the KAB modified arm with the trough/paddle thing to address the alleged tonearm refinement complaints. The Hagerman Cornet tube phono stage was a revelation when I added that. Wonderful piece of gear. The Dyna 10X5 moving coil is sweet. Very satisfying to me, although quite modest setup.
I love both mediums, but sometimes that character thing you talk about can only be satisfied with a great LP.
Jes45- Let us know what you think about your SA14 as it runs in. I have about 350 hours on mine after a little break.
LKdog, thanks for sharing your impressions on the differences. I just heard the Marantz SA-1 player side by side comparison to a Technics table (highly modified) and great LP playback system. Vinyl rules and the difference in this system is a 'character' that digital has yet to achieve and may not achieve. Sacd does this character at the surface level but the intrinsic 'character' is deep within the music itself. The LP seems to grab this by the throat.
The Marantz player is very impressive indeed. Sacd playback was outstanding and cd's had lots of bounce in the midrange but sacd just trounces it in the lower midrange and very top end areas. The LP just elevates all aspects of music beyond sacd. They each satify on different levels however and I can live with the Marantz or LP since they both make it easy.
This is just my observation on comparing the experience of the two mediums.
Just back from vacation and now have my Marantz SA-14 back from TRL. Will hook it up later tonight or sometime tomorrow and will report back my initial impressions.
Air between instruments Lack of harshness Soundstage depth especially good on both Instrument placement is excellent Recording venue is heard (room reverb quality) Smoothness Acoustic instruments esp. horns and bass sound real Engaging and involving, but not overly lush or rolled off
Differences:
More bass extension and depth on SA14 (The SA14 has incredibly musical deep bass) More detail on SA14 Still something about a great LP that is magical that is different than digital The SA14 is still breaking in (350 hours) so I am still assessing, but some recordings have some digital sound still. None of my LP's really sound edgy-even the ones that used digital recording process (i.e.Donald Fagen, Talking Heads).
Of course, CD's and SACD's are uniformly clean and without ticks and pops; but that is part of the LP experience I don't mind really.
Just talking out loud here. I really am very very pleased with both. Listening to music is a real treat these days.
Yes its the naturalness of the sound thats maybe the central point of the mod. Whether it competes against an LP system is probably unfair since the LP itself is superior in many ways to a cd.
Anyone with a high quality turntable system please comment on this? I regret that I do not own an LP system. Is there a common character between the TRL mod and your LP?
I think Jack and some others may have very nice TT setups and may be able to offer some comments.
I really enjoy my TT/cartridge/phono stage but it is not probably considered very high end so maybe not a good comparision.
FWIW, the TRL SA14 is easily as satisfying on well mastered CD's as my best LP's are on my modest setup. Very natural analog sound in general to my ears.
Very incitefull stuff. Thanks for sharing info on your experience with DAC-transport combo and how they compare to the stock SA-14. Your Exemplar 2900 mod sounds interesting. For info how much is the Tucker mod? He has a good reputation for making a nice product.
I wonder how the TRL SA-14 compares to a high quality turntable system. Anyone?
Island, I agree that the SA14 is a very nice player. It was my reference for a couple of years. It will improve greatly with the right power cord such as a Shunyata Python. A Sistrum SP-1 Platform made a huge difference, opening it up big time!
Almost all of my discs are red book, so that's the only format I really care about. I found that an Electrocompaniet ECD1 dac sounded much better than the SA14, and I used the Marantz as a transport for the dac for a while. I sold them both after hearing John Tucker's Exemplar 2900. IMHO the 2900 was better in every way. John's 3910 mod is even a bigger step forward and that is the best digital I have heard. I haven't heard them all, but the Exemplar 3910 on red book and sacd is unbelievable!
Benchmark, Shunyata and Sistrum will give you a 30 day trial and you can try them with your Marantz. Send them back if you don't like them and your only out shipping. I think they are all great values, and you can't go wrong with the return policy.
Glad that this thread is again serving its intent of providing information of possible value to forum members.
I have the modded TRL Marantz SA14. I cannot comment upon it's stock sound as I had my unit shipped directly to TRL for the mod. I listen to mostly Redbook and only have a few SACD's.
Redbook on the modded SA14 sounds wonderful to me-as good or better on most CD's as my turntable setup which is pretty decent (I see we have the same Dynavector cartridge). SACD is a step up on the recordings I do have.
As far as DACs or other digital I have had in my system, the modded SA14 is better in every way compared to what I have had-
Bel Canto 1.1 Cary 308 TRL modified Sony 595
The TRL Sony was a clear step up for me from the first two IMHO, but does not have the extension and resolution of the TRL SA14.
Others here may be able to comment upon the Redbook performance compared to modded universals. I do know that TRL is of the opinion FWIW, that the SACD/CD units they mod are typically better suited for dedicated 2 channel listening-even after modding if that is your main focus.
Certainly you will get many opinions and I am sure that some of the 3910 or other universal mods are very very good by VSE, APL, etc.
As you have noticed, people seem to be passionate about what they actually own :)
What you are asking for if anyone compared their TRL SA14 with one of the DAC listed may be rare indeed. Your best bet is to re-read the thread again. There is no doubt in several minds on this thread that the $550 cost will transform your player to a very high level. I have heard the Benchmark but in a foreign system. I did hear an a-b comparison with and without, and I barely heard the improvement.
There are just too many who have experienced the change in their system compared to what they had before and if you are thinking that this is a high risk decision, don't worry its not since the mod has a full refund.
As for the TRL SA-14 comparison to the Denon 3910 mod player, its more a matter of money in your case. Unless its important to you that you have the 'best' modded player. You might want to check with APL or RAM since TRL does not mod the 3910 which is ultimately the only way you will know for sure.
IÂ’ve read this thread in its entirety and was happy to see some information on the Marantz SA14, the CDP that IÂ’ve own for two to three years. When I made the decision to purchase my SA14, there was very little information pertaining to the unit on Audiogon, AA or any magazine reviews to my knowledge. The dealer where I brought the player did not even stock the unit because of its price and the lack of interest in a 2-channel only SACD player. I need to state that my Marantz really did not perform unit I flipped the filter switch on the back of the unit. This adjustment made the player come to life and donÂ’t see how anyone could own this unit in stock form and not turn the filter off. This simple adjustment is seldom if ever mentioned by anyone.
The upgrade bug has bit me again and I was reading some discussion posts on some DACÂ’s and digital front ends. I have little if any opportunity to make comparisons of equipment since I reside in a rather rural location and must make my purchasing decisions based on reviews and posts here on Audiogon. With the SA14 in stock form, most Redbook CDÂ’s are listenable with ones that are recorded well, can sound magnificent. To me, well recorded CDÂ’s are maybe one of four with recently release CDÂ’s sounding better and better. Most SACDÂ’s sound very good but I believe because of the outstanding Redbook performance of the SA14, SACDÂ’s are not leaps and bounds ahead of the best Redbook CDÂ’s.
Last year I got back into vinyl and refurbished a Lenco turntable with new plinth, Rega Arm and Dynavector cartridge. What IÂ’ve discovered is that most LPÂ’s sound good with maybe 25% sound exceptional, almost the same rule as with CDÂ’s. I know that there are much better vinyl rigs available, but with the lack of new current releases on LPÂ’s I find if difficult to invest in more that my Lenco. IÂ’ve come to the conclusion that a good sounding LP does sound better in some way that a good CD. I also feel that an average sounding LP does sound better than an average sounding CD. ItÂ’s obvious that the source of LPÂ’s is relative to the amount of available to previously owned LPÂ’s and lack of current music.
I read some posts on modified Denon DVD players. The information sounded promising but I was put off by the final cost of the player. IÂ’ve done some research on outboard DACÂ’s which was the way I was leaning until I read this thread. IÂ’m hoping that someone whoÂ’s owned a DAC such as the Audiomeca, Electrocompaniet, Levinson, Benchmark, etc. can give me their opinion on how a TRL modded SA14 player compares with one of the DACÂ’s I just listed or a DAC of that caliber. IÂ’m hoping the get my average sounding CDÂ’s to sound close to magnificent if possible. IÂ’m already happy with the way the goods ones sound. Already owning a SA14 and the $550 cost almost seems like a no brainer compared to the cost of a new DAC. Also, it would be interesting to hear from anyone who has compared the TRL SA14 to a modified Denon universal DVD player like the 3910.
Howard: I pray for the best on your vacation. (No lost or damaged luggage, etc). And for a speedy claim with Fed Upped. I think that Yahoo allows free photo uploads with their free yahoo e-mail accounts. Might be worth looking into?
Deb: The Marantz does not do video. I like the looks of both players ... the SA-14 just fit closer to my needs for the audio system, that's all.
Sorry to hear about your misfortune. As for a free public sharing web store for uploading pix, your best bet maybe your local library or College. If you know someone there they can do the upload. There are some internet cafe's around so a google search might give some good results.
Good luck with fedex. You should not have any issues with your claim. In my case my crated speakers had a hole on the side and the only damage was the surface skin cracked. The speaker is a poly-resin and kevlar body that will not break. This was fortunate since a more fragile speaker might have had more damage.
Before 'others' misuse this incident, let me clarify one thing: TRL has one fo the best packagings for shipping I have seen. I am sure it is FedEX's (very) rough handling that causes the damage. Looking down form the top, the player was first wrapped in long saran sheets horizontally and vertically in a top and under fashion. After that, looking down from the top again, followed a long sheet of bubble wrap wrapping vertically in a top and under fasion in multiple layers. Because the bubble sheet is about 5/8 of the player width, there is another layer bubble sheet wrapped around the player, then multiple layer bubble wrapping horizontally. Therefore, looking from the top, the multi-layer bubble sheets formed a cross-like wrapping. Since Paul packed serveral goodies inside the box, the player is snuggedly fitted inside the case. Since the damaged is done at the front left-side edge, I suspected it is a strong impact at the edge of the box to cause the smooth curvature of damaged.
Does anyone know of any FREE public sharing web store, so that I can upload pictures for Paul to review?
Ouch! Hope that works out to your satisfaction. I agree with Jack- TRL packs these things with extreme care. It takes a good fifteen minutes ot evn get the player unwrapped. FEDEX must have drove over it with a truck. I am sorry you have to go through this.
Hchi, bummer dude, I too have had shippers (Fedes) break stuff, deliver it falling out of its box. Took 2 months to get it settled. It makes you want to find the idiot that that abused your stuff and, and,... Jack, I really like my DV50, and the Marantz doesn't do video, anyway? I don't know. The 50 looks better, no?
Hchi: That's too bad. My units have always been delivered with 3 to 4 inches of bubble wrap around them. Fed Upped must have really abused your player to cause that type of damage.
Paul has told me stories of damaged amp crates from shipping abuse. His amplifier crates are made of 5/8" Birch plywood with 2 inch thick styrofoam surrounding the entire amp. The handle ends are double wall to allow carrying handles. He has had fork lift forks puncture through the 5/8" plywood and damage the amps inside. Once, they damaged the crate so badly that the shipping carrier repackaged the amp in a cardboard box with newspaper ... yeah, like that will work on a 100 pound GT-100 mono block!
Good luck with your Fed Up claim.
Deb: I prefer the TRL SA-14 over the TRL DV50S for sound. It just does everything better. The video on the DV50S is very good. If I was more "into" video, I probably would have bought a DV50S. From the sound of your posts, you seem to be more into video. This said, you should be happy with your purchase.
Lkdog: I haven't talked to the guys about their trip down to the Central Washington Audio Mafia Club meeting, although I'm sure that it was well recieved.
Soundlabs are a difficult speaker to drive. Let us know how that works out.
Jack, The player actually arrived a day before. I went to FedEX to pick it up. The box is a bit wrinkled. Upon opening the package, I first saw that Paul is very nice to included quite a few goodies such as SA/CDs and other stuff. Since I had a evening meeting to attend, I stopped at that time and shoot a quick email to Paul to confirm the arrival of the pakcage and thanked him for all goodies included. One thing missing is the Silver PC I also ordered. After coming back later, it took me a few minutes to unwrapped the nicely pakcaged player. It is heavier than I expect with a nice Gold color, then I saw the horrible sight. Facing the player, half of the left side edge is concaved in. My heart sank! Why did this happen to me! I called FedEX around 12am to establish a claim number. Hopefully, I can get FedEX to come inspecting the package before my 3-week leave on Friday. I was upset and it was late, therefore I just repackaged the player to put it back to the box.
In short, the whole burn-in schedule for my TRL9500 is shut. I really hate that when the carrier damaged my items.
Sorry guys, the feedback about the pleasure of enjoying the TRL sound will be postponed! :(
Well, I guess TRL did some kind of demo of the new SS integrated ST-225 with an audio group (Staephan Harrell's of 6 Moons?) other reviewers, and people from LA and Las Vegas. I haven't heard how it went.
Yes, I will have one available to audition as my best friend is going to try it with his Soundlabs.
My friend here on AG (tmoore) also placed himself on the order for a TRL SA11. He discussed this at length with Paul after he could not find an SA14 the last few weeks. I am sure that you have also talked extensively with Paul, and he feels that these units should turn out beautifully also. Will be interesting to see what people think, and what TRL thinks when they hear both the SA14 and SA11 side by side. They are doing enough SA14's that they should have one in the shop to compare when they get yours in for modding. If it has a similar signature and sound to the SA14, I think you will find the issues that Jack describes as addressed very well. I am very happy with my SA14 in my setup as it breaks in. Regards-
Reb1208: I wouldn't call it warm, then again, I've been listening to my 595 which is what I'd consider neutral. The bass is a little shy and less tight, compared to the modified units. And the stock unit is a little harsh, (digital edge/glare). Dynamics (once again stock) leave me wanting more. Micro dynamics and detail also leave me wanting more. Listener fatigue is an issue (stock).
Usually, isolation devices can be used to tame one extreme or another, but the stock SA-14 has too many things to tame. Use Stillpoints by themselves and the digital glare is over pronounced, but the bottom end tightens up. Use a softer isolation device by itself, such as the HRS Nimbus Discs, and the bottom end gets too sloppy, but the digital glare is tamed. I even tried Maple blocks, brass cones and aluminum cones to no avail.
Simply put, I wouldn't want to spend much time at one sitting, listening to a stock SA-14. Then again, I have heard the modified SA-14, which has everything that I'm looking for. The modified unit will integrate very well with my system.
Jes45, anything you could share with us now about the SA14 before you send it in. Does it sound to the warm side of neutral? How is the bass and dynamics.
Indeed, let's go back to the topic. My TRL DV9500 will arrive Wednesday and I also locate a pair of HT Cyberlight Wave with battery pack, which will arrive Friday before I head off for vocation, to use with TRL9500. I will report back my first impresssion after spinning a few good SA/CDs.
TRL Family: Back to the topic of the thread ... I have spent adequate time with my SA-14 to know it's sound. I have several hundred hours, at least, on it since I got it. Today it is being shipped to TRL.
Your behavior on these forums and in your stated collaboration for Alex Peychev of APL attempting to maliciously discredit TRL and also, regrettably now, your harassment of other members of this forum is all the information pretty much anyone needs to know.
Good Luck in your journey and we all wish Alex of APL good luck in his business efforts.
Capitalism is a beautiful thing in America, as is free speech, but there are corresponding implied ethics, morals, and responsibilities that go along with these freedoms. There is also an ultimately unforgiving natural selection process that takes place in our American society as the consumer evaluates any company they are considering spending their money with.
As Guido has said- this has been most informative for all.
Oh, and just to assist you and Alex out ahead of time- I am not an audio dealer for TRL so no need to make that pitiful accusation.
No, I am simply just another happy audiophile consumer in a capitalist society whom has made their choice where to spend some of my money.
I am also through responding to any further posts by you or Alex as they are so patently unethical, ludicrous, and disturbing that doing so only enables such continued behavior on your part.
audioezra, I went to magico site, which model is yours, source of the drivers, none look familiar. I saw somewhere a review, is that the one? BTW, price? I expect a bit. Thx. Deb
To the well balanced, and serious audio constituency. I am not a dealer for trl. some years ago i was a voluntary none salaried represenative, for the same reason that I stand behind trl today, I love the best, and am willing to share, at my expence, the knoweledge of my experence with those of us that are in this hobby simply for the love of music. Some one asked of what does my system consist? speaker's magico reference(magico.net) trl modded marantz sa-14v2, pass top of rhe x-over,4 way. six channel's of coustom amplificatiom,two channel's of commercial bass amps by bryston, 7bsst's, scully 2 or 4 track tape machine,reference line passive antenuation, I stand by a great product without apology, greatness is greatness.
Paul , I am Old School and like to keep it stock. These SA-1's sound so incredible, I personally feel to keep it as is. But not to plug my cable, I do have a BMI Hammerhead Gold power cable on it, which just puts the SA-1 in another universe of it's own.
Out of all the digital equipment I've owned over the past 20 years, the Marantz SA-1 has the best results with an upgraded power cable.
At an original $7500 msrp and now under $4K preowned for the SA-1. I would have to say it's a steal when you Hear the sound.
The lesser units such as the Marantz SA-14, SA-14mk.2, SA-12S1, SA-8260 and now there current flagship SA-11 are not in the same league as the SA-1. I personally know the design, and the parts of each.
And according to Marantz, the SA-1 is clearly a statement design. Marantz couldn't make anymore of the SA-1's because of unavailability of the custom design laser and chip. This is from first hand telling from Marantz people.
So again, if you can find a Marantz SA-1 keep it unmodded and it's better than having money in the bank. Because I can guarantee not just now, but years to come the SA-1 will be a sought after player. You can't say that about too many other players. I am done with this topic.
Mrchips - Are you using your SA-1s in stock form? Or, have you had them modded? It would be interesting, since you have 3 of them (wow!), to hear your thoughts on a modded unit versus a stock unit.
uh-oh You know, this has been one of the more enjoyable "equipment specific" threads I've had the pleasure of reading, and yes, being involved with. I submit that we keep it that way. Let's NOT get into the personal arugments and sniping that happens, and is currently happening, on other threads.
If individuals have "problems" with other members, take it up with them through e-mail - NOT in the open forums.
Steve, no. Where did you get that idea? I'm not even remotely in the audio business. And, I'm not even that active in audio anymore. Prior to the SA14, the last time I got a component was about 2 years ago.
The Alesis ML9600 is humming along and gets better every day. Thanks so much for providing me the opportunity to own one of the best products I have ever purchased and introducing me to the TRL family. I am planning on having Paul mod my DAC so that I can have a set-up that rivals your former combo.
Howard, do enjoy your TRL 9500! We all here talk about audio but I understand that it is one of the best video players you can buy. I have a 220v model too. I did not know that it could be converted from 220v->110v. Its just 4 months old and it is region-free (plays all DVDs) but I'm going to sell it since I don't watch many movies and I'd rather stick with my already modded SA14 for audio.
Jack, I have a tube pre-amp (Joule Electra LA100 Mk3), a digital amp (Acoustic Reality eAR Two, 250 watts/channel), nOrh 9.0 speakers (the one with Scanspeak Relevator drivers and a marble cabinet) and an ACI Force powered sub.
I'm a believer in power conditioning, so the pre-amp and amp run off a Blue Circle Music Ring balanced power supply. The SA14 runs off a separate balanced power supply (from Bolder Cable). I am using 3 parallel power conditioners -- 2 Blue Circle Noisehound Mk 3 and a friend's Quantum Symphony Pro. The pre and the 2 balanced power supplies use Bolder Cable Nitro PCs (the one on the Blue Circle has a bybee filter). The amp uses a matching Acoustic Reality power cord.
Rounding off the system is a set of Echobuster room treatments. I am thinking of getting 1-2 "seams" from 8th Nerve to further treat the room where the wall and ceiling meet.
Hello guys, Paul told me that my player should be shipped out today. Since I live in East Coast, it will most likely take 4-5 business days to arrive. Paul only got to try out its component out I believed, by which he is not impressed when he compares to a TRL mod DVDO iscan. However, he didn't get to try out 720P/1080i HDMI output. Since my player is originally 220V, a mod in PS section must also take place. Because of that, I presume the video portion should be improved by that mod to an unknown extent. I will probably have an access to a Chrisite LX+58 in a few months. I will report back when I get to see the picture projected on a 10ft screen. For the time being, it will reside in my 2-ch rig serving as a dedicated SA/CD source.
Since I will be leaving next Friday to LA for 3 weeks, I will most likely put the player on repeat for 3 weeks! :) By the time I come back, the magical 500hr will be reached. Hopefully the player won't go up in flame! :P Yes, I will miss all the burn-in fun.
I am also trying to locate a used set of HT Cyberlight Wave. If anyone has experience using this set of ICs with TRL players, please inform me.
Jack, Thanks for the feedback. Besides DV9500, Denon 5910 was the next universal player on my list. For people who are more into video than sound, I think Denon 5910 would be a great mod candidate with great potential. Does any videophile have one and would like to send it in for Paul to mod? :)
As always happy listening and enjoy the music, -Howard
Audioezra Brilliantly said, regarding Paul at TRL. I couldn't agree more. I've never had a more comfortable and confidence inspiring exchange in audio. You should get some of the recordings he has done. They are the software version of his mods. :-)
Audioezra: Thank you for your observations. Since my first TRL mod (a Sony 775) I, too, have quit playing back my 2 track production masters, which I used to consider the "absolute" sound. Since your system is not listed, could you please list your system components? I whole heartedly agree with your assessment of the integrity of the TRL team. And considering that their price for all of their mods are just $550, I feel they are providing the best bargain in audio, ever.
La45: Hey Cuz. I hope that you are able to track down the source. Thanks Lou, for your efforts.
Jsala: I've owned Paul's FIM/CRL Gold and Silver power cords in the past and they do require some break in time. There is a lot of mass there to break in, be patient. BTW, what is the rest of your system? Solid state or tube? Speakers? Just wondering ...
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