Totem Model 1 Sig with Sub or Mani 2 without a Sub

i used to have a pair of model 1's with a rel strata III sub for my 2 channel audio system with classe equipment in a smallish room, 12 x 13.5. very sweet sounding. IMO, the Rel subs along with the totem sub are very hard to beat for audio. i have since sold my arros and model 1's with the REL and purchased multiple pairs of mani 2's. the model 1's are 1 of the finest sounding monitor speakers around (and will probably own another pair in the future) but the mani's are another level above them. in my 13 x 24 foot dedicated room, the mani's are close to 5 ft from the rear wall and they sound fantastic. they just disappear. they do need a powerful amp and a sturdy pair of stands to get the best sound out of them. As for the forests being better than the model 1's/w sub, that is a tough call. i also liked the forests and almost bought them but decided on the model 1's/w the Rel sub, just as i prefer the mani's over the forests and the winds. the winds would be better for a ht setup (imo) than for pure audio listening. keep the mani's, you can always experiment with a good (fast) sub.

I'm using the Model 1 sig. with a velodyne hgs 12 subwoofer. The sound is incredible. I would switch to the Mani-2 if my pair for pass labs aleph 3 would drive them. these are low power amps with a very addictive sweet sound. the alephs have enough power to drive the Models 1 to high levels but I don't think they would be able to drive the mani-2 very well. i will not give up the aleph amp for more powerful amp to drive a pair of mani-2. I run the model 1's full range with no cross over to the sub. I am happy with the intergration of the sub. i know the mani-2 have better bass but I think the imaging and the sweet midrange are similar between the two(since they use the same tweeter and similar bass units). i'm not a big bass guy but the sevo velodyne works for me. I would stick with what you have and get a sub if you want the lowest bass, but the mani-2 sounds like it does not need a sub. one thing that I would like to know is that since the mani-2 are have goob bass reproduction, is it sensitve to position. I only ask because a position that has the best bass response is not always the best position for imaging (a good reason for a sub that can be place at a different postion than the speakers).

Tony

The Mani-2's are better than the M1+Sub. The Forests are better than the M1+Sub Combo.

Good save, everyone. ;)

Thanks for the input,I believe I will just keep the Mani 2 and just save for my sub in the future.

Not even close, IMO. I have the Mani’s and Model 1’s. I also have a Velodyne DD12 sub. Currently I use the Mani’s for the front speakers and the Model 1’s for the rears in a combination 2ch. /home theater setup. I have quite frequently switched the Model 1’s to the front in combination with the sub to listen to 2ch. just to “see how close I can get to the Mani’s”. Again, I have to say not even close. I also have found that more often than not I’m turning the sub off when listening to 2 ch. with the Mani’s. It’s just not needed. If you’re looking for that last little bit of deep base you cannot obtain from the Mani’s then add a sub to your Mani’s. Switching to Model 1’s would be a step backwards, IMO.

I'm using a Rel Storm III with my Mani-2s - just to get that last little bit. It's arguably overkill, and in fact for a lot of music the sub isn't even noticeable (ie I can turn it off and not miss it).

Given you already have the Manis, why not buy a sub and pair it with them first? That is, why do you think you have to trade in the Mani-2s if all you seek is deeper bass?

OTOH, one thing I noticed is it's easier to integrate a sub if the crossover is at a little higher point. I had Totem Sttafs prior to the Manis. It took a few nanoseconds to get the Sub set up with the Sttafs (x-over at 38Hz), but a fair amount of effort to do so with the Manis(x-over at 30Hz). I guess the other reason may be a little bit of cash you may net in the exchange, but I still don't think I'd do it if it were me.

I think it would be a downgrade. The bass from the Model 1 plus the sub will not be as refined as the bass from the Mani-2 for the bass frequencies which they have in common. The Model 1 plus the sub will give you lower bass frequencies than the Mani 2 alone, but the trade-off is lesser quality bass in the mid and upper bass (and other frequencies for that matter). If you would like deeper bass than the Mani 2 can provide, why not add a sub to the Mani 2 rather than drop down to the Model 1?

Keep in mind that this is relative. The Model 1 is still a very good speaker.

Personally, I've never found a sub/monitor combination to be as well integregrated as a larger speaker in the same manufacturer's line without a sub.

you would be correct in thinking the model ones are almost identical with imaging in the mids, however 'some amps' match better with the manis than 'others', and the 'weight' of some instruments (piano, kick drum, tymphani, etc) will not sound as real as the manis in an a/b comparison. before you swap them out, try other amps(big power) with the manis. you can always add a sub to the manis, but i think you'll be shocked at how low and articulate they can play. i am not a fan of modern smaller speakers as a general rule, but totem makes some of the best, and i would take the mani over any expensive british monitor(and companies like harbeth, pmc and spendor make great speakers). the mani is in a classic by itself.