Collecting/cleaning vinyl is fun! wanna pay $16 for a CD when you can get better sound from a free or 25 cent LP.Cant get new releases on vinyl? ha! too many to even try to list are avaliable on vinyl.Many times a few dollars cheaper than the CD version.Who spends lots of time 'fussing' with a turntable? Not me! A few minutes to set it up and thats it.If ya want to tweak your table,fine.Tweaking is a big part of this hobby and isnt exclusive just with turntables.Surface noise with vinyl? Sure,if you have an abused copy.If I get a copy of a LP that isnt quiet enough I just find a better copy.Most of my LP's are as quiet as a CD.If there is a bit of surface noise its only audible between tracks.I only recently bought a decent CDP.I listen to CD's much more now than I have in the past.When I do my most serious listening though vinyl is the choice I make.As far as what turntable to buy.Get the best used table you can afford.I wont recommend any.A used table/arm for around $1000 and new cartridge for around $500 will get you 70-80% of what the best analog set up can offer.Keep asking questions,do research and listen to tables if you can.You will make the right decision in time.Be cool and dont hurry. |
This has become more confusing now!
Psychicanimal, you definitely have some arguments that the others can't seem to contradict by reasoning, only by regarding your table as 'DJ quality'. I read your post about the electrical engineer who has one. I have seen no tonearm dampers for Rega, Music Hall, Project, Basis or VPI. So what you propose is a viable alternative. Now, how good can that table really be? I mean, there's some real quiet belt drives in this thread...belt is quieter, from what I understand.
Clueless, can we trade usernames?
Ken |
Well, I think lps and cds both have their place. If you want "general listening", and "no background noise" is your primary criteria, then you certainly can't argue with your argument about cds Pbb. I have been hoping that technology would step in and put an end to this dilemma with some miracle technology, but ...it seems we are moving toward HT and MP3. There is a good argument that these are suitable for general listening. Likely that quite a few will argue that MP3 and downloading is so easy that "there is very little percentage" in cds. I think they will have lost something.
Have you seen some of the audio systems around here? There seem to be folks interested in more than "general listening." If you have a pair of Mezzo Utopias in your listening room and like to discuss the suitability of Vienna Mahler speakers for orchestral music, as does the good Bishop, it seems to me you have more on your mind than "general listening." That being said he is not an lp fan and does not like the "bacon problem". Only goes to show.
I certainly like your point that we should listen to more music and not obsess on the tech stuff.
Sincerely, I remain |
Pbb, you get the point about records:
"You will wind up with two hobbies: fussing with the tt. and going through bins for records, throwing out every second one because one can only eat so much bacon without having cholesterol problems."
That's why I went for the 'DJ turntable'...no fussing.
However, Direct Drive is not just for DJs...otherwise records would be cut with belt drive systems--right?
There we go...I already have my TT--and just one hobby. I buy used records that for $2-$4 it's a very good deal to me. No problems. |
Thanks, pbb. It really is only a joke because bacon isn't always frying. Sometimes popcorn is popping and occasionally kids are setting off firecrackers in the back yard.
My suggestion: Buy a really good CD player or transport/DAC combo, some good cables, and some good CDS. Meet your obsessive cleaning needs by helping your spouse around the house. Meet your needs for manual dexterity challenges by building ships in bottles.
But if you have fun doing vinyl, then do it and don't apologize (or hassle others who don't do it). |
Bishopwill, that is not a joke. I will simply add my two cents worth: aside from having a turntable for archival reasons (there still is great music that will never find its way unto cd) or simply because you are in need of a hands-on hobby, there is very little percentage in going the analogue/vinyl route. Whatever the highly touted "analogue" liqudity arguments from dyed-in-the-wool tt persons might say, for general listening of music with no background noise, and with all due respect to any dissenting opinions, cd is the way to go. Buy yourself $3,000 worth of cd.s, explore music you never even thought of buying, read up. If all else fails, some of the suggestions posted are corrrect. You can get a decent tt, arm, cartridge combo for not too much money. Leave this stuff about direct drive to djs. You will wind up with two hobbies: fussing with the tt. and going through bins for records, throwing out every second one because one can only eat so much bacon without having cholesterol problems. It's only a hobby. Don't you guys get all wound up now. |
Ken,
I know this can be confusing...if you have read my posts you'll see that I was considering those European glass and particle board TTs. Then I started reading posts (in other forums, obviously) about modifying the 1200. Nothing spectacular to begin just changing the headshell wires and interconnects...and adding a good record clamp. So I did.
The unit is very user friendly, with a suspension that none of the above TTs can outperform. It also has the tonearm with the lowest bearing friction (Yeah I had that Rega leaflet titled "Listen to this" many years ago) Just a wonderful high end unit. Besides, it is the ONLY decent priced TT in which you can add a tonearm fluid damper, just like some very expensive tonearms. I just ordered mine yesterday ($149 from www.kabusa.com) and am looking forward to some heavy duty performance. None of the above TTs is in this league (sorry...).
When you add all things up, you will end up paying less than $1000 USD for a totally outstanding unit.
I empathise with you, but please don't make this sound like you're writing to Abby or Ann Landers!!!!!
Regards, |
Go to audioreview.com and get opinions from owners of most of the good tables listed above. Also audioadvisor.com has info if you have no good local dealer. The Rega and VPI units are real good high end units with various options and upgrades as you progress. I own a VPI Aries but the lower models are very good. Do not put most of your money in table extras before doing so in your cartridge - its the real telling tale area of analog along with your phono preamp. |
and also keep in mind that people use rega turntables for years without any of the problems others accuse them of having. |
the regas don't need modification. they sound great right off. |
And develop an appetite for bacon because once you begin to listen to vinyl there will always be some frying in the background.
That's a JOKE, folks!!!! |
Go with Classic WTT/WTA used on Audiogon for around 750$ sometime w/good condition quality cartridge.You will never come back. |
Ken-
The suggestions in the posts so far have been pretty much on-target. I'll echo what has been about a good used Rega P3 or Music Hall for your quest in your lower price range, although you would need to be careful about Grado cartridges with the Rega as Grados have a tendency to hum which sometimes is exagerated by the Rega.
In your higher price point, the Basis 1400 that was previously mentioned should be on your short list, but you may want to consider the RB-250 arm which has already been modified by Origin Live to go along with it.
As a suggestion, you may want to get started with a good basic UNMODIFIED used table/cartridge like the ones already mentioned and use that as your reference point before you spend alot of money.
Regards
Jim |
Thanks, guys. I have been reading these posts extensivelly (hence the confusion) and I read some posts by Extremephono just bashing the Rega. It seems nobody could counter those viewpoints. Would that make the Rega the belt drive equivalent of the DJ turntable, then? I mean it's got to have so many things done--yet you guys seem to like it so much.
I just don't want to bother with changing this or that, adjusting things...
Ken |
Well, If you can start higher you should go for Basis1400/RB300 combo and define for yourself a cartridge which you want to use. There are 4 variables in analogue playback: Table, Arm, Cartridge and Phono.
I've started from Rega p3 and I was pleased with it's performance for 6 months and desided to upgrade. If I started from Basis I would probably still keep it. |
ken
listen to a rega p3 used or new with either a grado or a dynavector 10x4 cart. new, that will cost right at $1000 (with the dynavector) and will serve you very, very well. that was my first turntable set up and even though my turntable rig today costs nine times that, the rega still sounds incredible. my mother has a music hall and *i* prefer the stability and rigidity of the rega. the music hall sounds almost as good and costs way less, but i found it harder to set up and didn't like the feel of it, but that may not mean anything to you. for sure, check them both out (music hall 2.1 and rega p3) you can't go wrong either way. they're both fantastic turntables suited to all sorts of music, although it is my opinion that the p3/dynavector is *the* budget turntable choice, though others no doubt disagree.
let your ears be your guide and good luck! |
confused,
celtic's advice will serve you well. a pre-owned rega may be
worth a look (recently on audioshopper for 300.00)
Also may browse for a Thoerns table in the classifieds. Recommend the TD-160 at 200 to 300. either way, cartridge
selection (to start)is grado, grado, grado. demand 40% off
of retail, and use an alignment tool to install. a 2 degree
error will destroy the stylus and vinyl promptly, and disappoint you sonically. it's worth paying to have it mounted and tested by a pro. your friend that says no sweat, he can do it for free, can't. enjoy! |
HI KEN
PLEASE CHECK OUT ALL THE MUSIC HALL TURNTABLES ON OUR SHOWCASE ON AUDIOGON OR AT http://www.musichallaudio.com/
THEY ARE ALL WONDERFUL TURNTABLES WITH A CARTRIGE INCLUDED .. ALL SET UP READY TO GO -- THERE ARE 3 MODELS -- THE 2.1 -- THE 5 AND THE 7
CHECK THEM OUT ---ALSO CHECK OUT THE GREAT REVIEWS ON THE MMF-7 IN STEREOPHILE MAG .. ABOUT 2 MONTHS AGO
ANY QUESTIONS DROP ME A LINE
GOOD LISTENING
STEPHEN |
Buy something simple like the Music Hall MMF-5 or MMF-7 to get started. If you can't it set it up and get it sounding decent in 20 minutes, then you need to forget audio. They only cost $500.00 and $1,000.00 new with a nice sounding Goldring cartridge, and the setup is easy and quick.
Buy some vinyl and play with the MMF a few months. You will start learning more about LP grading, turntable setup, cleaning LPs and styli, pressing quality, and on and on. IOW, there is no magic bullet. It's not like buying a CD player. There is some work involved. |
Waxcylinder,
Make it easy on yourself. Find a used Rega for around $600, add a Grado cartridge for $100. Great learner table and quite respectable. |
