Ken,
I know this can be confusing...if you have read my posts you'll see that I was considering those European glass and particle board TTs. Then I started reading posts (in other forums, obviously) about modifying the 1200. Nothing spectacular to begin just changing the headshell wires and interconnects...and adding a good record clamp. So I did.
The unit is very user friendly, with a suspension that none of the above TTs can outperform. It also has the tonearm with the lowest bearing friction (Yeah I had that Rega leaflet titled "Listen to this" many years ago) Just a wonderful high end unit. Besides, it is the ONLY decent priced TT in which you can add a tonearm fluid damper, just like some very expensive tonearms. I just ordered mine yesterday ($149 from www.kabusa.com) and am looking forward to some heavy duty performance. None of the above TTs is in this league (sorry...).
When you add all things up, you will end up paying less than $1000 USD for a totally outstanding unit.
I empathise with you, but please don't make this sound like you're writing to Abby or Ann Landers!!!!!
Regards, |
Pbb, you get the point about records:
"You will wind up with two hobbies: fussing with the tt. and going through bins for records, throwing out every second one because one can only eat so much bacon without having cholesterol problems."
That's why I went for the 'DJ turntable'...no fussing.
However, Direct Drive is not just for DJs...otherwise records would be cut with belt drive systems--right?
There we go...I already have my TT--and just one hobby. I buy used records that for $2-$4 it's a very good deal to me. No problems. |
FZX, you've got it nailed--totally. Ken, you need to start where the previous post starts. I've posted similar before:
Why are you going into analog? I would not recommend anyone w/out records to start analog, either...
Just give it some thought and if you still want the DJ TT, let me know and I'll help you. Sedond, did't you read the post about the guy who has Technics 1800's and an Oracle w/an SME arm? He wrote they are not too far apart--and that's w/out the fluid damper...maybe I'll catch up with you! And if so will probably overthrow you as a Bargain King! |
Hey people,
I'm not the only one for the 1200s. I've been asked in the TNT-audio forums to give a detailed narrative of the steps to modding the 1200. People in Europe, Latin America and the Orient are using modded 1200s.
I carefully chose which TT I was going to buy. This was a well thought decision. The main reason that made me lean towards the 1200 was that Kevin of KAB Electroacoustics designed and markets a fluid damper for the tonearm. I have an old Disctracker headshell damper made by Discwasher. Those of you who have been in the hobby long enough will remember this little gadget. It totally transformed a Sumiko BP I used to own. Now, if you want that kind of feature you'd have to get an SME arm or similar. The silicone fluid will provide both lateral and vertical damping. Right now, using the HFNRR test record I'm getting a cartridge/tonearm resonance point of 15 Hz. The damping will bring that figure down a couple of HZ. Right in the sweet spot. So, with my Ortofon X5 MC and my Monolithic phono stage I will get some really decent analog sound for a reasonable expenditure...
Just be open minded and open eared... |
Pbb, Sedond did not say CDs are compressed. He said that in some poorly produced CDs the music has ben compressed. I notice this unfortunate phenomenom on a lot of my salsa CDs as well as pop Anglo music. If there's something in my list of gadgets is an expander, too.
I hear you, there is an analog cult going around...that's why they don't wanna hear that my modded 'DJ' TT really performs outstandingly. It's simply 'not possible'...you've got to 'have' this TT exactly how you described.
The manhole cover...good one! |
Pbb, I hear you. However, I just do not understand that you can't find vinyl more musical. My 'amiga' knows nothing about audio and she can tell that my analog rig sounds better. So does another good friend who came for a listen. It was a no brainer decision. Yes, there is impulse noise...but there is also more music. Unfortunately, it should NOT be that way. Digital SHOULD be better. But it's not, at the time.
It is very unfortunate that we humans are like we are. The CD format was lauched well before it should have. VHS ruled over Beta. DVDs over Laser Discs. Now they want MP3-like formats in order to copy protect. Sad, isn't it? |
Pbb, I think Sedond has it right on the money. He's been telling me about the modded ART di/o for MONTHS! Then I read that the VMPS speaker was best of the CES. The DAC? Modded ART di/o. If one combines this with professor Van Alstine's argument of using a cheap transport (that's what he used in his demo at the Chicago Audio Society) with a good DAC then one is set. Bueno. No need to spend a lot of money. Shouldn't for digital anyway. It's just ones and zeros...
Ken, please forgive us. If you like old music or have a collection of LPs, go for it. Keep it simple. I ordered the tonearm fluid damper for my TT last week and should get it anytime. Please e-mail me if you have any questions.
Hey man, I'm waiting for a record I got on ebay. It's the band that played in my ninth grade ball. Not on CD, extremely hard to get. Lots of impulse noise. But even more HOT street salsa music to make you forget about the noise!
Pbb the only thing I can see about your complaining of all that impulse noise is two reasons: Perhaps you listen to classical music almost exclusively (which indeed does have a lot of low volume passages in which I also consider the noise unacceptable) and/or maybe you don't really know how to take care of your vinyl (including proper cartridge setup).
As usual, there is no conclusion...get used to it, Ken!
Later, |
I wouldn't invest in a classical music vinyl collection, for sure. I've bought a few at record stores very cheap but it's not worth it, in my opinion. The noise would just get to me, especially as it gets worse with time.
Pbb, have you read "What to Listen for in Music" by Aaron Copland? |
I took a class in freshman year in college: Sound Sense and Idea. A musicology class that is. We read the book, as well as another one I don't remember...
You should read the book. I'm pretty sure analog will start making sense to you.
From your posts I think you could benefit from getting truly emotionally involved with the music. I had my reality check which awakened me many yeas ago...that's one of the reasons I use a modded 1200 instead of a belt drive. I have made a discipline of getting involved with the music, not the equipment. I do have a cultivated ear, but the music goes first. I truly enjoy my Svetlana and Dvorjak's Columbia Classisc LP after all these years of impulse noise being accumulated. I get connected to the spirit of the music. That's what's really important. That's why I've chosen my components to be musical above any other quality. I have a friend who's into really high end stuff*, but he ALWAYS drools with my software, ¿comprende? "Where do I get all this music" is his question...
* B&W 801's, Krell Class A beast, Klyne SK-5A preamp, SOTA vacuum TT, etc. |
Read again. Then meditate about it. I'm trying to put you in the right frame of mind.
Kind of like a Lifespring exercise...
www.lifespringusa.com |
FROM ONE OF THE TNT GUYS:
My front end consists of a Wadia CD player, Sota Star-SapphireTT, ET2.5 Air Bearing Arm, Grado Reference cartridge ( low output), Audio Research phono preamp. I purchased most everything second hand but believe that
the new cost of the analogue/ digital rigs to be comparable in the US$5000 range. (do I get points off for not having a DAC?) :-)
The Wadia came first (it took me six years or so to collect my set up even with used prices.) and had not had a TT in many years. I was ecstatic about the sound coming from the CD through a tube amp and electrostatic speakers and thought this must be heaven. Wanting to be transported away by the music, I put on Schwarzkopf singing the Four
Last Songs of Strauss from the Angel/EMI release. It was sweet, smooth and silky with nothing standing out or distracting evident from stereo but in the fourth verse of "Im Abendrot" the climax and resolution of the piece " O spacious, tranquil peace, so profound in the gloaming."
hits a brief major note and has in the past sent shivers through me and at times brought a tear to my eye. Much to my dismay and a blow to my pride in my new setup there was none of that. It was beautiful for sure but distant.
How could this not beat the pants off my bottom of the line BIC TT, cheapo Sure cartridge and Lafyette receiver. Perhaps because it was distant memories.
Eventually my analogue setup came around and I pulled out the original Schwarzkopf. As you can probably guess, at this point all of the involvement was there in the original LP that was lacking from the CD. I played both versions and found the difference in involvement to be eye opening and to this day is my favorite CD/LP comparison for friends
who don't know LPs.
I've thought of getting a DAC to see if that would help level the field but am waiting for something in that class to be found used. Does anyone have a suggestion? The CD has a recording chain of AAD. I have a few other CD/LP comparisons on hand that give similar results and music has
moved me on CD but just more so and more frequently on LP.
Now to really stir up trouble. The 1960 DGG pressing of the Beethoven 9 Symphonies with Karajan and the Berlin Philharmonic blows the pants off, dynamically speaking, the CD reissue. In the slow movement of the 7th. I've never heard such pianissimo and such forte. It is a perception
though, I've not measured it.
The Wadia is great and it gets used often, but if I want to be moved, LP is the thing.
Regards,
Michael |
May I remind you, Pbb, that people have sex like an instinctive event? However, it was under commisioning of the ancient Chinese emperors that Taoist medical sexual research began. What Masters and Johnson were doing in the sixties the Chinese had done way better some 2,500-3,000 years ago. There's a book titled "Tao of Love and Sex" that briefs and explains the findings so that Westeners like you and me can have a more enjoyable life. I had a friend of mine buy the book and told me his married life has increased a hundred fold...
Just when we think we know...the same goes for music. |
Excellent post, Trebleclef.
Well, almost...you ought to listen to a modded 1200. The fluid damper brings the best of this unit. It's truly world class sound. I have been using damping on and off with my previous TT. Still have one of those old Disctracker headshell damping devices. Fluid damping makes a big difference in performance--just ask SME. |
