05-17-13: Tubegroover: "if you like jazz look for American jazz artists. The Japanese artists just don't get jazz IMHO."
I disagree. Music from the Three Blind Mice label might be boring but to blanketly dismiss all Japanese jazz musicians?
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After looking for this recording, it doesn't by any chance, have a guy named Yamamoto on piano does it? Please tell me it ain't so. I bought one of his recordings, "What a Wonderful Trio" on, I believe, the JVC label. This was based on a recommendation on THIS SITE. It cost me 35 bucks + shipping to listen to well recorded "cocktail jazz", no thanks if that is the guy on your recommendation, I've heard enough from him on that recording to know he doesn't get it. Please take no offense but to my ears this is NOT jazz. It is geared towards good sound, and nothing about jazz. Again, please take no offense. My response is for the benefit of the OP and is not meant to insult. The reason I MAKE NOTE of this is the prices asked for this ...., I'll bite my tongue. Check out the prices on e-bay or Amazon. |
Audiolui Thank you and based on your response, I shall look for and purchase this recording as I haven't heard it AND providing it doesn't cost an arm and a leg. I will hold you personally responsible if I categorize it with the bulk of the titles on that label. I will keep you posted on the results of my findings. ;^) |
Tubegroover, I agree one should listen first before buying the Three Blind Mice recordings. I only like Midnight Sugar and Misty. The others have good sonics but music is so so. I do have lots of American jazz. One good example is "We Get Request" by Oscar Peterson. Another is "Soular Energy" by Ray Brown and Gene Harris. |
Anything with Bill Evans, Gene Harris, Oscar Peterson, Earl Garner, Bud Powell etc. Benny Green has a good one, Live at the Vanguard with Christian McBride and Carl Allen, good sonics and music. I would recommend you LISTEN FIRST before purchasing anything on the Three Blind Mice label. I believe they are now defunct which means you will pay a premium for admittedly very good sonics but not very good jazz. The music sounds arranged to me. In other words, if you like jazz look for American jazz artists. The Japanese artists just don't get jazz IMHO. I have listened to numerous of these recordings and to a one they were all plain boring to listen to. Music first, right? |
I am a fan of Marilyn Crispell, who is one of the best post-Cecil Taylor pianists of our time but she's much more lyrical and delicate particularly in her ballads. It's misleading to called her a Taylor follower as the influence has more to do with their classical background than in style. In recent years she has added a sizable output on ballads in her catalog, which is closer to her other influence in spirit, John Coltrane. Here's an artist fusing the aesthetics of Taylor with the spirituality of Trane and her own her sensitivity. Her trio recordings with bassist Gary Peacock and the late great drummer Paul Motion on ECM are not to be missed. The presence of Motion, unsurprisingly, reminds listeners of the famous Bill Evans trio. Here's a tracking called "Voices From the Past" from her excellent album "Amaryllis" from 2001. Not sure if it is available on vinyl, along with her other ECM recordings. It really doesn't matter to me, I just go for the music so I bought the CD. Sigh...so much music, so little time... ______ |
Another +1 for Hank Jones. I have "Hanky Panky" and "Just for Fun." This thread inspired me to dig out Hanky Panky. The trio on that one is completed by Ron Carter on bass and Grady Tate on drums. "Just for Fun" has Ray Brown and Shelley Manne, plus a couple of duets with guitarist extraordinaire Howard Roberts. Somebody already mentioned the Keith Jarrett "Standards" trio with Gary Peacock and Jack DeJohnette. If you do some looking, you'll find some of these on LP, most likely ECM, which pretty much qualifies them as audiophile pressings as well. |
Garybx Ditto here. After hearing a few superb 33 rpm Bill Evans reissues on Riverside, I was quite skeptical about the 45 rpm reissues, but I am a convert after acquiring a 45 rpm copy of "Sunday at the Village Vanguard." The sound has more weight as compared to the 33 rpm pressing, which certainly contributes to that extra layer of realism you perceived. The air, detail, subtlety, it's all there, but the 45 rpm has that feeling of closeness that 33 rpm lacks. Highly recommended. |
@acman3, your observations are pretty close. The piano sound ion in transitions is much more together on the second lp that was the second recording session. Your description of the piano on the first lp matches my perception of the honky tonk being loose or slury as u put it. Great description. Shame on the sound people since I know 1965 gear can do better. |
Located my copy of Oscar Peterson "In Transition". The 1st half of the 2 record set is a live 1965 recording at the Trivoli Gardens in Denmark. It is a mono recording and some times the piano is poorly recorded and breaks up or slurs. It is however an awesome display of the trio with Ray Brown on bass and Ed Thigpen on drums. Great music, OK recording. The second half is a new trio with Louis Hayes replacing Mr. Thigpen, later in 1965 in the studio. Much better recording. I hear no problems with the piano but the music is more controlled, not as powerful a recording. Still great though. So I can see if the OP just listened to the live side he may hear problems with the piano. Btw, this is an Emarcy reissue of the two dates. Anyone with the original feel free to comment on what they hear. That would be interesting. Could not find the "Rare Moods" at this time. I am not very organized. |
Dear Philjolet, In response to Sbrownnw's question regarding the quality of the piano reproduction on his jazz LPs, you wrote the following: "my guess is that you are hearing the vintage equipment they recorded them with (vintage vacuum tube sound)" I know this is OT, and please forgive me for it, but I strongly disagree with your opinion. What is the basis for it? Makes no sense to me at all. Vacuum tubes are not even capable of that sort of distortion, except maybe in a guitar amp where the distortion is deliberately introduced. I rather suspect that Sbrownnw's cartridge is mistracking on the particular LPs he mentions or that the LPs themselves are just not good copies or were abused during their lifetimes. Just had to vent. Back to jazz piano trios. |
I'd look through the store record binds for Cecil Taylor recordings and as I had said earlier, Paul Bley (Keith Jarrett's biggest mentor) recordings. For myself, learning and discovering material is half the fun of buying records and both of the above mentioned pianist/composers have a mile long discography of recording projects both on vinyl and CD. |
I have the Bill Evans box set of 45rpm pressings from Analogue Productions. It is a treasure trove of jazz, and it even includes the Cannonball Adderley "Know What I Mean" album with Bill Evans (probably my favorite of all the wonderful albums in this box). I've only compared a couple of the albums to their 33rpm equivalents, and I think the 45rpm versions give it that extra layer of realism. |
Recordings on jazz labels from back in the day are often hit or miss. For example, I bought a mono first pressing of Ella Fitzgeralds 'Like Someone in Love' on Verve.. This record comes with an orchestral accompaniment on both sides A and B. Anyway, one side sounds fine but the other side is, well let's just say that it's not in sync. The reason for this is that recording and editing of the accompaniment were done first and separately from when Ella went into the studio and sang. When the engineers paired them up, the speed of the accompaniment was right on side A but a half step down or so in pitch on side B. It seems as though jazz labels were in a hurry to bring out new releases and slighted on quality but many had the financial resources classical labels did not so it doesn't add up. On the contrary, 'Ella Sings the Harold Arlen Songbook', another Verve release is fine, or close enough to believe that they all could have been in the recording studio together. |
Yes, the Billy Taylor: I Wish I Knew has a similar sound but the Billy Taylor CDs I have do not. I guest the remaster changed that. I love technical and rhythmic trio jazz like that. On a completely different note, I am listening to David Byrne: My Life In The Bush Of Ghosts. Never heard it before and is brilliant. Plan on putting some Art of Noise on later. All on vinyl of course |
I also like the Red Garland Trio and I had a favorite record which included Philly Joe Jones on drum kit. His brush work on 'The Man I Love' was as good as it gets. Even though the band line ups are often jumbled around, I myself would go looking for earlier Paul Bley records and they're all recorded in stereo as far as I know. OK, I don' want to miss this Brahms cadenza. |
Almost forgot to add the under-appreciated Wynton Kelly, best known as the "other" piano sideman on Miles Davis's famous "Kind of Blue" LP and one of my personal favorites as a trio player. On KOB, Kelly plays on on the bluesy "Freddy Freeloader" while the legendary Bill Evans does the rest of the piano work. What you might like to check out are some of Kelly's LPs, which are excellent. He varies his line-up and personnel, but a lot of it is trio work, notably with Jimmy Cobb (drums) and Paul Chambers (bass) from the KOB sessions. |
Wrm57: "Anything by Herbie Nichols. Hints of Monk's angularity, humor, and space with a touch of Tatum. Brilliant stuff. The Mosaic 3-LP box is one of my favs."I don't have the Mosaic but the Blue Note twofer compilation from the 70's or 80's is one of my favorite piano records and it sits quite well along with anything by Powell or Monk. Brilliant, indeed. John Lewis is another favorite but I can't remember if he made any pure trio recording. His "Improvised Meditations and Excursions" has a couple trio tracks and the solo album "John Lewis Piano," also on Atlantic, is quite swell. What an elegant player. His autumnal recording "Evolution," CD only, is achingly beautiful. You mentioned Tatum and his group "masterpiece" recordings on Pablo are crown jewels by the giant. His grouping with Ben Webster is among the must listen recordings. Going back a little earlier, the greatest pianist before Tatum would have to be Earl Hines. He even made an audiophile recording for M&K "For Fatha" playing some modern tunes. His "Blue Monk" is a joy. Lennie Tristano's Atlantic twofer is another must have. The first four tracks never seize to amaze me whenever I hear them. I think he might have made a couple trio recordings but none, musically, can touch the Atlantic. Utterly brilliant. I need to go spin some tunes now. Chiao. _______ |
We have a local jazz DJ who says every Sunday on his show that "jazz is the sound of surprise". For me that perfectly captures why I love jazz. I still have a childish love of surprise. So, when I hear "Waltz for Debby" for the umpteenth time (that one tune, not the whole album), there is no longer any surprise in it for me. I would love to hear Bill Evans play it live, one more time. I am sure he would do it differently from what he does on the recording, and I would dig it. I have been listening to KOB since I was 15 years old. I lay off of listening to it for years at a time, in my later life, so as to preserve that sense of surprise and discovery when I do listen to it (the whole album, in this case). |
Lewm, No need to apologize. I'll come clean myself and confess that a few months ago I finally OD'ed on jazz and just...lost interest. I didn't know what the hell happened; I just didn't feel like listening to any of my jazz records. If it can happen to a big jazz fan like myself with respect to ALL jazz, I can certainly understand how it can happen with respect to one particular record. As a side note, I was very glad I could fall back on classic rock, which my other favorite genre, to still enjoy my vinyl. I then thought of my my audiophile neighbor who listens exclusively to classical music. Being able to listen to only one genre of music exclusively always seemed somewhat of a disadvantage to me since the person misses amazing music in other genres, and then poses a risk exemplified by my experience. But I digress. Anyone have the Analogue Productions' 45 re-issue of Waltz for Debby? I have never heard it. Just wonder how it compares to the 33's out there. I neither have, nor ever heard the AP 45 RPM pressing of "Waltz for Debby," but last week, by an incredible stroke of sheer luck, I got the Analogue Productions 45 RPM reissue of "Sunday at the Village Vanguard" for...$10. I have not had a chance to listen to it yet, but I'd imagine it should give us a pretty good idea what "Waltz for Debby" on 45 would sound like. If you're interested, I'd be happy to report on my impressions. |
Mal Waldron, "Impressions," with Addison Farmer and Tootie Heath, 1959. Rhythmic drive with brooding undertow. OJC reissues are around in used record stores with decent jazz selections. Anything by Herbie Nichols. Hints of Monk's angularity, humor, and space with a touch of Tatum. Brilliant stuff. The Mosaic 3-LP box is one of my favs. |
I see some great suggestions here. A few of my favorite are "For Duke" on M+K. It is a direct to disc in honor of Duke Ellington. This is a very special record. I seldom play it for anyone but myself, unless someone is a real music lover or audiophile. Another is Muddy Waters on Fidelity 180g. When I am in a rock-n-roll mood, the Heart Little Queen is very well done on a London label. |
I didn't mean to belittle you for your enthusiasm. It is a great recording, indeed. I was just making a very personal and therefore irrelevant statement about that specific piece. However, it definitely should be in anyone's collection who is interested in small group piano jazz. Sorry to sound snotty. I am a big Bill Evans fan. Bill Evans with Marian McPartland, on her old radio show, is a gem, even on CD. |
Just yesterday night, I was listening for another time to "Waltz for Debby" from Bill Evans. This album is really excellent and like Actusreus said, even with the cheap Riverside reissue which I have. It is so airy, live, well recorded, etc... A must have! Last years, at the Montreal Jazz Festival, we had the chance to hear a jazz group with pianist François Bourassa, that played a tribute to Bill Evans. A superb show. Sébastien |
You can get sick of any music, no matter how great, if you overplay it. It's not like they play the record on the radio all the time. The OP asked for suggestions and it appears he's not overly familiar with Bill Evans Trio, in which case "Waltz for Debby" is a no-brainer. It blew me away the first time I heard it. And it sounds absolutely glorious, even the cheap Riverside reissue. I personally can never get tired of hearing the clinking and clanking of the glasses and utensils at the tables, and the faint sound of people's conversations between the tunes; it's like being transported back in time. An absolutely timeless record. |
Cecil Taylor's "Love For Sale" consists of trio and quintet. Four out of the six tracks are trio recordings. This is Cecil in 1959 when he was still playing standard tunes before he went to the stratosphere, so even if you're adverse to avant-garde jazz this is still quite accessible and adventurous at the same time. Early Cecil was never fortunate enough to record with a good piano nor a good engineer so his early works cannot be qualified as "audiophile" recordings. But with such amazing music by one of the greatest artists of the 20th century, it hardly matters to me. The great Herbie Nichols had a 1957 trio recording on the Bethlehem label called "The Bethlehem Years." Nichols was an unheralded figure with a unique sound. In this record, he teams up with George Duvivier on bass and Danny Richmond on drums. Majority of the tunes are composed by Nichols. Worth checking out. _______ |