Can we get back to the topic: WTL Tonearm + ZYX
10g effective mass vs. 12/15x10-6 (100Hz) compliance |
Thanks for clarifying what you meant by vague. You can vary
the amount of fluid in the cup and it has a pronounced effect
on the sound. Also, as you are aware, all other adjustment
you complain about can be fine tuned, you just need to let
the arm settle a bit after you adjust it. Anyway....I don't
own a well tempered arm at present but have in the past and
would do so in the future. I've always wanted a reference.
I guess we can end by agreeing to disagree.
You say potato I say patato.....let's call the whole thing
off! ;?) |
First, do you concede that there can be no "pivot" without a bearing? If so, then you agree that the construct that permits pivoting is a bearing. I am not sure I understand the meaning of the term "zero tolerance". If it means that every tonearm made is exactly alike with no unit to unit variation, then that's admirable, if it's possible. But the other meaning of that term that comes to my mind is that the bearing has zero space between the two surfaces that must also permit free movement between the two surfaces for the bearing to have acceptably low friction. Hard to visualize that one. In most bearings, the petroleum-based lubricant fills the space between two moving parts. In the case of the WT tonearm, it seems the silicon fluid serves that purpose.
Anyway, none of this matters. You obviously are very happy with your WT tonearm, and that's fine with me. You have a lot of company on your side. My experience with WT tonearms is limited to a WT Reference tonearm mounted on a WT Reference TT that belonged to a dear friend of mine who suffered from dementia prior to his death a few months ago. While he was still able to appreciate music, I helped him on two occasions to mount a cartridge on his WT tonearm. It seemed to me that there was some modest amount of slop in the bearing and that it was over damped. (I would even soften up my statement that it was "vague", in favor of over-damped.) For sure I could see with my own eyes that azimuth was not stable, as the arm tracked from the outside grooves to the inner grooves of an LP. The Reference TT per se is fine, IMO. It is only the tonearm that gave me fits. Moreover, I thought that the sound of the TT was very tipped toward the midrange prominent and always "polite", regardless of the source LP. I attributed this coloration to the excessive damping. All this is IMO, of course. |
No bearings in the normal application of bearings....they are zero tolerance, too.....so how are they vague? I'm not sure I understand or follow what you are describing. |
Raymonda, It's a pivoted tonearm, right? If it has no bearing, then what does it pivot on? The answer is, it does have a bearing. That "paddle or ball in silicon fluid" constitutes a bearing, for better or worse. Don't be concerned; I am not confused on this issue. You have every right to love it; I don't. |
thanks guys
I was thinking about Well Tempered Lab LTD MK2 new tonearm only (without wta turntable) as i already have turntable and it's Technics SP10mk2 with massive plinth. I have two tonearms:
Thomas Schick Tonearm (high effective mass for low compliance cartridges)
http://cs624027.vk.me/v624027872/15f45/5eGh-yR6gDI.jpg
Technics EPA-100 Tonearm (22g effective mass with stock shell for mid compliance cartridges).
http://cs616228.vk.me/v616228872/be57/6H7-Ds3fqfw.jpg
I came across Well Tembere Lab LTD MK2 tonearm recently and it's the lightest one (10g effective mass). According to ortofon information (below) tonearm with 10g effective mass is the best match for cartridges with compliance range from 20uN till 30uN.
I believe a compilance meassured @ 10 Hz in Denmark (not at 100Hz). Japanese standard is 100Hz for Zyx which is 12/15 uN compliance, i believe it would be around 24-30uN @ 10Hz in European/USA standard. Right ?
The below diagram illustrates the relationship between cartridge compliance, tonearm mass and the resulting resonance frequency:
http://ortofon.com/images/hifi/article/service/tonearmsresonans_02_web.jpg
Looking at this information i feel that my ZYX cartridge is not matched well with my current tonearms.
|
"not sure how it would compare to others in the same price range"
My former table was a Spacedeck. The Amadeus made it sound broken..... |
I have an Amadeus MKII, quirky bugger and I love the design. It's amazing how natural it becomes to grab the tonearm and place the needle on the record. VTA, azimuth are easily adjusted. I've only compared it to my moded Rega P3 and it sounded a lot better but it should price-wise, not sure how it would compare to others in the same price range. |
Vague bearings.....the tone arm does not have any bearings but rather a paddle or ball in silicone fluid. And....they are zero tolerance, to boot.
You must be confusing your arms.
I owned an older arm and loved it. It was function executed to the finest principles of Einstein ' s simple/simpler concept. |
Hi Chakster,
i'm really happy with my WT Amadeus.my phono is Whest PS30RDT.SE,It is a good phono too,
although i never own a expensive turntable,but sometimes i have chance to visit my net fans to listen their expensive turntable,after that so i can make sure the WT Amadeus is a really good turntable,at last you better to go to listen it. |
I have an original WT tonearm. In fact, its one of the very first that Bill Firebaugh built. I've was the second owner, being the first to take it out of the box. I've rewired it with Cardas tonearm wire and dampened the tube with one layer of shrink wrap. This was a nice improvement. Also, the fluid well has a heavy, custom machined brass clamp around the fluid well where the paddle rests. On the hum: Loosen one of the screws on the top of the motor and attach a ground wire to the screw and re-tighten. That eliminated all hum for me. I my honest opinion, the Well Tempered table, when properly set up (yes, I know its a bear) is one of the finest tables, especially considering the cost, out there. If you can find an early Moncrieff review, that's the one to read to understand what the WTTT can really do. |
I guess I am perplexed as to where a bearing even exists on my WTA Amadeus arm. It's basically a rod attached to a golf ball floating in silicone. And fine sounding it is.....
Shakey |
Sam, have you tried higher priced tonearms from well known manufacturers before WTL. The LTD mk2 tonearm intself is not expensive but what about performance with high priced cartridges, are you happy with it? |
I wouldn't blame a tonearm for "hum and noise" necessarily, but I am no fan of WT tonearms, either. Because the ones with which I am familiar have rather vague bearings and do not maintain precise azimuth. But in fairness, I am not familiar with their latest and greatest. |
i'm ex-user WT reference,and now is WT amadeus GT,tonearm is latest symmetrex LTD,i use LYRA skala,and hum/noise never happen in my system
Sam |
Stringreen, Even with latest improved ltd mk2 version? They use their own geometry and do not recommend any protractors. But which cartridges have you tried with WTL? |
In my experience, I've too often experience hum/noise from Well Tempered tonearms |
