Mikesmith,
Has your SME 20/3 arrived? I'd love to read about your impressions. |
Sorry, didnt get to the bottom of the thread. Mea Culpa. enjoy. |
Manitunc,
Have you read the thread? The OP has bought an SME 20/3. Let him enjoy his new purchase and report back his impressions. Congratulations Mikesmith. |
TW ACUSTIC turntable sounds wonderful great customer service to. |
Manitunc.
Seriously mate. You haven't heard the SME table and your only source of reference is what you have read on line. Hardly objective commenting!
"and will likely sound as good or better than the SME"...and you know this how?
And as I stated above, herein lies the problem with attaching too much importance to these forums.
While all input is good some is just not very helpful or as in this case just plain biassed in favor of what the commentator owns.
Plus the poster has already bought the table and is now just getting to know it and to try to burst his bubble like this is just not cool.
Enjoy your Sota which I'm sure is very nice, and me and Mikesmith will enjoy our SME's :-)
Aloha! |
For about a third the money, you can get a Sota Cosmos that has similar design principals as the SME, is US made, comes in a variety of finishes and will likely sound as good or better than the SME. And they partner well with the SME V that you already have. My Cosmos is a revelation compared to my other tables, and not because it does one thing well, but because it does everything well, with no particular emphasis or deficiency. And with the vacuum platter, it has something the SME will never have.
Alterntively, I would guess that the big Basis is the Sota's equal as a 4 point suspended table and either is cheaper, and I think better, than the SME 20. I admit, I havent heard the SME 20, but trying to put together a consensus from what I have read, it seems like a great table with no life or spark, much like marrying a model. I know the Sota is not like that. |
Congrats Mikesmith!
Enjoy!
(still waiting for my 20/12A) |
Hello everyone. I took the plunge and after some delays in setup (it's cottage season up here) I've now had a chance to do a bit of listening. I don't have time for anything approaching a review at the moment but I would like to simply put it to you that this was a very satisfying purchase. I'm trying not to take a huge bite of this audio candy all at once, preferring instead to nibble around the edges, but come this fall and the cool weather, I intend to re-discover a bunch of LP's. This is a very, very good turntable, even with my lowly DV Te Kaitora Rua cart and Nordost Tyr phono cable. Cheers! |
What these posts and forums underscores is how everyone has an opinion mostly based on his or her preferences, purchases and in many cases biases.
There really is little objectivity.
All you can do is take note, filter, distill and then trust your gut :-)
Congrats on the purchase. I'm sure you will be more than happy.
I just went through the same exercise and am now waiting for my 20/12 to arrive.
Don't know about you, but I'm as excited as hell.
What cartridge do you plan on using? |
All of these posts underscore the need for you to listen to the turntable of your choice ....actually, at these prices, listen to everything. It even warrants a drive or plane ride to listen. |
Keep your SME V,buy a lenco ,make a big heavy plinth and for peanuts you will have a great turntable. |
Blue_starfish, how would you compare the SME V and the Vector 4 tonearms on your SME 30/2? |
Congrats mike , im curious what you think .
My personal second choice would have been raven ac with davinci arm , which is a little more expensive |
Just ordered a SME 20/3 today. Hope it's the right move. Thanks to all the members who posted. After I get the 'table and run it in a bit, I'll post my findings for anyone who might be interested. |
In addition to having a different suspension system compared to the 10, the 20 and 30 have different feet. With the latter tables, one can leave in place the rubber insert pads or remove them exposing the stainless steel balls inside. If one wishes to 'ground' the table to an isolation platform - such as the Symposium Ultra - one should remove the pads. If the table is resting on sensitive furniture, the pads would best be left in place. This choice could certainly have various effects including the amount and tightness of bass and perhaps the degree of detail and 'blackness' of background.
Different strokes....... |
I own a SME 30/2 with Basis Vector 4 arm and Dynavector XX2m2 cartridge. Previously I used the V arm with same table and cart.
The 30 is a significant step up from the 20. Comparing with the 20, the 30 has more speed, liveliness and dynamics. The 30 brings plenty of boogie which SME 10 and 20 are not known for. And the bass is articulate, deep and with plenty of details.
The best way I can describe a SME30 is a LP12 on steroids. The PRaT of an LP12 with deeper bass, bigger sounding, wider + deeper soundstage |
The 20 digs far deeper into the detail of the music and brings out a significant amount of information compared to the 10. Bass appears lighter at first but is far, far tighter and going back to the 10 which i moved to a second system confirms this. The 10 produces more bass but has a touch of bloat compared to the 20, not a boom or anything unpleasant but noticeably different. My 20 is a 20/2 . Arms used are a SME IV arm and an Ortofon AS212S, cartridges are Ortofon Jubilee and Candenza Black and a Phase Tech P-3 Alexandrite which really needs a heavier arm.I swapped about using all permutations until i came across what was my favourite and I've ended up with the SME IV arm with the Cadenza Black on the Model 10 and the Ortofon arm and Jubilee on the Model 20. The Jubilee is still the best cartridge i've heard with my system.
Although there's clearly an SME thing going on i feel the 20/2 to be a noticeable step up from the 10. I've not heard a 20/3 or 30 so can't compare to those.
One thing of note though is that as the 10 is an unsuspended design, it is greatly affected by what it sits on so what i'm hearing might be completely different to someone else with a different support. To hear it at its best you would probably have to put it on a stand that was completely isolated from its surroundings which might end up costing far more than the cost of upgrading to the suspended designs of the 20 and 30. |
Diggory,
Could you describe the sonic differences between the Model 10 and 20? I've read that some feel the 20 sounds more like the 10 and others feel the 20 sounds more like the 30. And what arms/cartridges do/did you use on these tables?
Judging from the latest comments about the 20/3, it gets much closer to the 30. |
I bought my Model 10 without hearing it nearly 10 years ago and never regretted a thing. I bought a Model 20 last year based on my experience with the 10 and again, no regrets. I too echo the responses of others who say 'just go for it'. |
I lusted after an Amazon Turntable and without listening just bought one based on the collective (small sample) reviews and comments online. Couldn't be happier but I would have just sold it if it didn't match into my system. I think you just go for it if you can afford it. Life it too short. |
Why focus on SME? It's the title of the thread. |
Mordante...read his original post mate...he fancies owning an SME not an Oracle or a TW or an Avid etc.
Mikesmith.......obviously you are interested in SME so don't let others muddy the waters.
It's too easy to just list a whole range of different tables as Mordante has done...but you could spend the next 2 years trying to hear them.
If you have an urge to own an SME then find out all you can about it and make your decision.
Trust me I asked the same question on a different thread and so many posters wanted me to try something i had not asked about my head was spinning.
It's nice people want to help with their advise but it's not helpful to have them just add to your list because it's what they are using right now or what they have a soft spot for. |
Why foucs on SME. Not saying it isn't a good turntable, just saying there are many more brands that maybe are equally good. When buying some new gear don't focus on one brand. Have a look around. Listen to some turntables like AVID, Oracle, TW Acustic, Goldenote, Holborne, Transrotor etc. Holborne might not impresse your audiophile friend by its looks but they do sound very good. |
Gordon,
That is a good one. Kind of sums up things quite nicely. Very pithy and so typical of this subjective hobby. Subjective in what one hears and objective in the sense of intense brand loyalty practiced by many toward their preferred objects.
I'm leaning with Rgurney and wish I could find a way to afford the big SME. |
I reckon rgurney is still counting ,.....
As long as skoss1 is so vague over the system it was used in ,it is wild guessing as to why or what.
I am happy to hear rgurney ended up with the top sme , i might have made a good choice .
skoss1 if your sme system was boring , put a convergent pre in the system.
mauidij i personally also like raven ac with davinci arm |
Linn owner: the SME is boring.
SME owner: the Avid is boring.
Avid owner: the Linn is boring.
I've actually heard these owners make these comments. |
Hi Ron - I have no idea what a 30 sounds like, have never heard one but trust your ears. For me the 20 was the most un-involving table I ever had in my system and yes it was with the SMEV arm, all I know is I myself would never consider that table EVER. And I thought the S10 was a significant improvement over the S7 but really not worth the price of admission IMHO. |
Sksos1 - I beg to differ. I've owned both the Basis Debut Signature Vacuum and the SY7. Sold them. (I've heard the S10 and don't think it is a significant improvement over the S7). Neither measures up to the SME 30/12 with V12 arm - what I own now. Plenty of PRAT and inner detail.
I'll go count up my albums now.......let's just say, quite a few. |
Dover,
I'm not nervous about the money just being careful and taking in all the data I can. Kinda excited actually as this is not something I do very often!
I agree that any of the TT options will be good ..in fact...great. I am just looking to fine tune the decision as much as possible and also deciding what "sound" is most important to me and the rest of my system.
If I am so unhappy with my choice and have to try again...well no biggie. Fortunately the prices I have been quoted are such that I should be able to move it without a loss. |
Mauidj,
Any of the turntables you have looked at will be good. If you are nervous about the $20k, then spend less. What about second hand. For $10k you could get a second hand Micro Seiki RX1500 and a new Graham Phantom. Keep your Oracle as a benchmark. If you dont like the sound you can offload the Micro without losing much money if any. Put your original cartridge on the new deck then once you get a feel for the sound make a decision on cartridge. This is the least risk approach. |
Sksos1...many mahalos.
I guess in the end one has to buy, try and if necessary sell on and try again.
I've spent the last 3 weeks quizzing Audiogoners and others but as Dover stated I'm still fluffing around and changing my mind every other day.
Time to commit to something and see what happens.
That darned golden grail ;-) |
Im currently using a direct drive which has great rhythm and pace but lacks inner detail, still searching myself for the golden grail. Ive used in the past which was much better than the SME, a Basis Debut Sig, a SYD S7 and S10 (although I now prefer the direct drive approach) and some of Dr. Feickert tables have floated my boat. I do listen to 90% analog and have over 12,000 albums! |
Sksos1...thanks for the info.
I was just interested in the cartridge more than anything.
Can I ask what front end you do use and what have you heard that floats your boat.
Dover...I'm "fluffing around" because spending close to 20k on a front end is not something I do every day so excuse me while I get all the info and feedback that I can. |
Mauidj ~ I had the 20 for at least 5 weeks and during that time didn't want to listen to mt system because it had no "life" no "engaement" no PRAT with the SME 20 in it. I could list all the equipment but let's just say there was over 200K of gear that hadn't been changed except for the TT. Myself I'd NEVER consider an SME, at least the 20 becasue of my own experience yours and others may differ. |
Mauidj - why are you fluffing around still. I thought you had decided to buy an Oracle. Have you changed your mind again. With regard to all these opinions you have to look at the rest of their systems. In the case of Sksos1 if you look at his threads you will see he has 8watt tube amp and Ocelia speakers. You need to search the systems for people with systems and tastes similar to yourself. |
Sksos1 You still don't say what else was in the front end system.
I'm also guessing that as the 20/3 is brand new you didn't use it for long.
So what do you mean by dead? Is that a lack of coloration? Of warmth? Dead how?
Dead or lifeless seem to be the buzz words used by SME bashers....not saying that it's not deserved...but it's funny how polarizing this brand is.
I am seriously considering a 20/12 and am intrigued by your very negative comments. |
I don't represent or currently sell ANY turntables so I have no agenda I'm just stating a fact of when I was "loaned" an SME 20 table it made my system dead dead dead! The SME 10 I've never heard so my comments are only regarding the 20. |
I have an SME 10 with SME V arm and AirTight PC-1 cartridge. This combo has a low noise floor (I don't know what Blackest soundstage means) and very good imaging. My system is anything but "dead and uninvolving". I don't know how much to attribute to the turntable as I have never inserted other tables into my system and am not able to isolate what the SME 10 is doing to the overall sound. I'm considering upgrading to a better SME table as I have read the 20/3 and 30 have more bass extension and even blacker backgrounds. They also have better isolation.
My suspicion is that an SME table is a good/excellent and neutral foundation for a front end. If one hears something else, it is in the arm/cartridge/tonearm cable or something further up the chain.
Unfortunately, SME is very expensive in the US. I read that the factory has no trouble selling all of it considerable output, so many music lovers are indeed saying "TO SME". |
I dont know what brands sksos1 represents?
I heard the vpi classic again this weekend on a full nagra set up .
SME is considerably better in my opinion , much more decay of notes and musicalflow . |
Sksos1 - "Blackest soundstage and pinpoint imaging but it has no life." No listing of what arms/cartridges were used in that assessment. Could it be that "no life" means that nothing was ADDED to the sound to give it what you consider "life"? |
commercial thing??
The days i listened to commercial dealers are long gone, although i am one now , so please dont listen to me. |
To Sksos1, this is strange but it happens in audio. The opinions regarding SME tables are either an "analytical and cold sounding table" or a "musical and warm sounding one".
I've just spend the last weeks reading on SME subject since the 10 interest me and the opinions on this table are divised.
For example, my local dealer in Montreal and a UK one that I know consider the SME 10 like a "musical and warm sounding" table while many other think the opposite.
I consider that it's also interesting to know about the rest of the system use to make these analysis.
Sébastien |
To your original post. NOT an SME for me. I've used a SME 20/3 and yes it has the blackest soundstage and pinpoint imaging BUT it had no life. It was DEAD sounding and uninvolvimng. NEVER again an SME IMHO. |
Some of you talk about the advantage to buy directly in UK and that you don't have other fees beside shipping for a turntable. This is for USA. As I'm living up North in Canada, is there anyone with such buying experience living up here? If so, feed-back are welcome.
Sébastien |
The sme will bring stability, high resolution ,it will gave a stable portrayal of the record , better than the oracle , i dont know ?
Some times you just have to rely on others opinions on the world wide web , its just impossible to hear all tables in a high res system in ones home .
Someone who never tries will gain nothing .
This afternoon i ll be having a cat ultimate mk2 , i exchanged it for the plp , i never heard cat before i just read the net , i was intrigued of the reviews and look at it as a well perfected tube design , he uses for example teflon in the circuitboards and makes his own caps |
'I have an irrationally strong urge to' buy ( a,b,c...n).
The irrationall part become 'visible' when I try to resell
(a,b,c...n) . The most incomprehensible fact is then that
I am glad when I get the half of my money back. Not to
mention the fact that I am aware of this fact in advance.
Such is the nature of our hobby.
Regards, |
A thread here earlier this year made it clear, from various knowledgeable posters, that tables (as mechanical rather than electronic devices) can be imported without import duties. For some reason, the thread was taken down and I expect that will happen to this one too if it gets more specific on this matter. Ask Southwest or SoundHiFi directly, the will quote you a price that will find attractive, I warrant.
I bought a used SME 20/2 to replace my Aries and I am totally impressed with the quality of what is now an old table itself. For me SME was supposed to be the end point, only now I think it might be another SME that gets me there :) |
The Orbe is a very nice analogue source. I like the Orbe, it's just that I would like something better. I think I can do somewhat better all around with the SME - better detail, resolution, somewhat deeper, more accurate bass response etc. All the things we want from our systems. I think the Orbe, as nice as it is, is the weak link in my system. Maybe I'm chasing my tail a bit but I've wanted a SME table ever since I replaced my Origin Live Illustrious MK II with the SME V with the upgraded silver wiring. It's just such a great performer, so wonderfully engineered that I have a real hankering for one of their 'tables. I just wish I knew how much of an improvement a SME would bring. |
There is no import duty into the USA from UK for personal items like a tt I believe
SW Analogue is totally the way to go. They are super nice and very SME knowledgeable too! |
{quote]Sebastienl - The money you save buying from Southwest Analogue may allow you to get the table you want, or even move up from a 30/2 to a 30/12.[/quote]
Rgurney...don't you end up paying a lot of the difference in import duties to US Customs? I am not sure how that works but I am assuming a good portion of the price differential just covers import duties. I may be wrong. Just looking for clarification. Thx |
