to my ears digital audio does not sound natural? something is wrong!

Sam here again and i'm not talking about the difference between digital and vinyl and it doesn't matter if your listening to an mp3 player or a $25000 turntable with the finest vintage tubes the sound i'm talking about can not be achieved with man made equipment? 99% of music is recorded on musical instuments tuned to standard 440hz this frequency is out of tune with the brain and by replacing 440hz with a frequency that is in tune with the brain the music is now in harmony with the brain creating a new listening experience that you hear and feel.

440 tuning is just right for me. Even being a little flat is fine too. Just as long as all is in tune to each other. Maybe your brain just doesn’t like music. 

Buried in all of Guitar Sam hysteria on this and other threads re digital v. analog is the notion that to some people, digital, no matter how well done, strikes some people as inherently “wrong”.  The counter possibility is also true, that vinyl (My experience with Reel to Reel is limited) sounds inherently wrong to others.
   I am sure that this notion has been done to death here and elsewhere, so I will add just one side glance at the discussion.  I firmly am in the digital camp; I remember becoming increasingly frustrated with the limitations of vinyl in the early eighties and to me digital was a godsend.  I dabbled in vinyl a few years ago but it just wound up reconfirming my impressions and I made a nice sum selling off my analog rig.
   My slant on this is that perhaps it is genre specific?  I listen primarily to Classical.  Digital eliminated the surface noise, pitch instability that warped vinyl provided, expanded the dynamic range, and in general allowed to me to hear so much more low level information that I was previously missing, even on budget equipment.  I mean, entire passages, such as the chamber like episodes on a work like Mahler Nine, were now audible and deepened my appreciation significantly.  I thought that friends that complained it was cold and sterile were nuts.
  I then listened to an early CD transfer of a pop album that I knew well, Cat Stevens Tea For The Tiller man, in the late nineties  and for the first time I thought perhaps I understood; on my nice fancy system this seemed to sound smaller, less warm than my aural memory of 25 years earlier listening on my parents KMart Special system.  And as my systems became more revealing with time I began to hear some faults with early digital transfers of favorite Classical albums.
  Flash forward another 10 years.  I have spent several thousand dollars on analog trying to recover some magic.  And I finally had to conclude that all the Classical, even the early digital albums, sounded better than the lp equivalents , even when I had shelled out 30 bucks for a 200 gram vinyl.  And I preferred pop albums on CD, but here the gap was smaller.
  Setting aside prog rock, Sgt. Pepper, Pink Floyd and the like, most Classic Rock of Pop that I listened to as a teenager feature electric guitars, electric bass, drums, maybe some keyboard.  Compared to Classical or Jazz, the dynamic range is quite limited.  With vinyl, with its decreased dynamic range, it can sound as if the music is more naturally frame.  With digital, it can sound as if there is wasted space.  Think of the way DVD players can crop the images on large flat screen TVs, particularly on older content.  Like hey, I paid for a 65 inch screen, why is the image being shown at less than 50?  Listening to pop music on vinyl is more like watching an old movie on a cathode Ray TV.  Even though the the music and the reproduction have limits, the limitations are complimentary, so they seem to work together to some people.

For me digital it can be natural with the right gear and system set up, I heard this cocktail streamer very natural sounding Tsakadiris tube integrated and audiovector speakers were used, But vynil is vynil.... 

I both like digital and analog , to appreciate both, I have analog and digital. For easy listening I play sacd , cd . For serious listening I prefer analog, 

No jactoy, vynil is vinyl.

To borrow one of Frank's observations: "A lot of recordings are drenched in reverb."  There's a hall-like ambience created for the listener.  Not real, but part of the art of production. 

mahler123,

'With vinyl, with its decreased dynamic range, it can sound as if the music is more naturally frame.  With digital, it can sound as if there is wasted space.  Think of the way DVD players can crop the images on large flat screen TVs, particularly on older content.  Like hey, I paid for a 65 inch screen, why is the image being shown at less than 50?  Listening to pop music on vinyl is more like watching an old movie on a cathode Ray TV.  Even though the the music and the reproduction have limits, the limitations are complimentary, so they seem to work together to some people.'


Interesting post, you've obviously given it some thought.

You know there is a school of thought in audio that suggests that some systems with increased resolution can unkindly expose recording faults and limitations at the expense of the music whilst less resolving systems might be more benevolent.

Sometimes a gentle dip at certain frequencies is also mentioned.

Could it also be that albums such as Cat Stevens' Tea for the Tillerman originally cut for vinyl might get exposed unless transferred with great care to digital? 

I used to feel that those early Cat Stevens solo albums were recorded a little raw, verging on tape saturation. There  also seemed to be plenty of tape hiss audible on the LPs, though I thought it was worth it for the enhanced intimacy it brought to the vocals.

Another problem here is that it's difficult to compare like with like as the LP and CD mastering transfers can themselves sound different. 

I would totally agree with your views regarding Classical. Very few turntables in my experience have managed to give a good account of themselves with all the various demands of classical music, especially those difficult vocal works. 

I think I could sense my turntable having palpitations as I turned up the volume on my Maria Callas LP. The cartridge wasn't too pleased either. 

@cd318 
I Really do think that Classical shouldn’t be judged, in audio terms, for the reasons that both of us cite, in the same manner as other genres, excepting jazz and other acoustic instrument favoring genres such as World Music.
  I find that most of the pop music I grew up with sounds worse on a high end system.  Take a typical Phil Spector produced girl group song.  These were recorded and mixed with the expectation that the typical listener would be enjoying this on an AM radio, in a car or elsewhere.  Even played on a KMart Special as a 45 single back in the day I remember feeling they didn’t move as much as on a $5 Japanese transistor radio.  Replayed back on a 5 figure system they just sound silly to me, the aural equivalent of watching kids wear their parent’s clothing.  I prefer them on a $39 Bluetooth speaker.
  Now, in the early sixties the head of Columbia Records got the bright idea to mix their Classical as if everyone would be listening on those same AM radios.  See if you can an original lp of Bernstein/NYP Mahler 7 to illustrate this, and compare with any CD remix.  The original lp sounds like the Orchestra has been crammed into a telephone booth

Here's my experience with digital. CD transport to a good dac sounds better than the streamer. It's not that the streamer sounds bad it's just that the vinyl sounds the most natural and detailed even with the pops and dust. My system started as digital and now I've acquired vinyl as well. Streaming with roon to an innuos steamer is still very good. Not the same league as vinyl. Not yet. That's my take.

I have a TOTL modern CD player and I'm always going back to my vinyl rig after a while. Like some people prefer tubes to solid state. Less accurate but easier on the ear.

Original LP's from the early days, say 50s to late 60's sound best, at least to me. There is no comparison to digital, or streaming for that matter. Somethings missing with anything digital, jmo and my ears...happy listening.

We listen to total systems not just the front ends.  It’s all about the total system. The end sound always depends on the complete system and room with this whole digital vs analog thing elevated beyond where it should be.  Care, effort and skill must be used when building a system around digital or vinyl.  One system is not necessarily optimized for both types of front ends. 

wise and very good point.....

You guys just need a better digital front end system


Agree there are only 3 digital sources I consider worthy of approaching a  great phono source.
Cayin CD17 mark1 or 2 modified. 
jadis's digital and PL's digital, all 3 will match the best in  vinyl sound. 
ss cd sources i can not stand.
Has to have tube technology, and caps changed to Mundorf Silvers. Sparkoslab Descrete opamps etc. 

***Total system*** well obviously,, What he is saying is in general any turn table will whip any ss cd player,, That I agree, Vinyl is superior over ss digital. 
But a  nice tube digital source with Mundorf silver caps, will give the best phono a  run for its money. 
+ with a  cd, no snaps./crackles and pops , which can interfer with the exp,,+ I can get nearly any cd, on the cheap, 80% of my calssical collection is not on vinyl. .