Yes, I would love to post a picture. How is that done?
Where do I upload photos? |
I was using the Sonus Faber Electa Amator II's.
A very nice speaker in their day; they are a small monitor and really it would not be fair to compare them to the really wonderful Piano Cera's. The Pianos' are beautiful, so balanced, neutral. It seems there is no distortion, well, none that I can detect. I am so thrilled with them. |
I was talking about actual SPL, I use a meter and like I said one recording sounded quiet and dull at 75-83 and the other one sounded plenty loud at the same SPL range on the meter. For the record, I use a Iphone app. called Studio Six Digital SPL meter. |
Argyro and Kclone, if we are purely talking about actual SPLs, which I hope, the human ear can be ruled out. If we are talking about what we hear, all bets are off. |
Kclone the human ear perceives different frequencies at different SPLs, for example middle and high frequencies are perceived louder than low frequencies even at the same decibels!
That could explain sone of the differences you mention!
Happy Listening,
Mike |
Yes, I agree--sum of parts do make the whole. However, I'd still stick to my earlier comment that basic difference of above outcome lies mainly in the differing driver materials used--even if comparison is presumably made using the exact same gears and cabling. |
Okay this is weird. I just played two recordings and one sounds much quieter at the same decibel levels. 75-83 sounds plenty loud and pleasurable on Lloyd Cole but quieter on Concrete Blonde. |
On the other hand this is not sth that has to do only with the speaker but with all associated components and cables. |
I have the same experience as Mike with my Piano Cera's. It sounds great at background levels which is a signature of its great microdynamic response. In fact if you check my older posts you will see that this was a hallmark of the design upon my receipt 10 months ago. You may also want to check into your powerline conditioning. I am going to take my system to the next level and order a power regenerator (APS PP1050). Every change I make in my system can be easily discerned through the Tidals. |
Kclone, since you quantified this with sound pressure readings, I decided to check my listening levels with a Radio Shack sound pressure meter.
I played several recordings of big band jazz cuts and symphonic cuts with what for me is loud levels. I set the RS meter on C reading and fast and in the 90 db range. I did get some peaks over 90 db, but overall the meter stayed in the minus range.
I think I am playing at what I judge to be the normal level where I up close to the stage.
I think the Tidal are very revealing of what comes before them, but I think my system is losing nothing at louder levels. |
I think Kclone and Argyro are just telling it like it is.. Both simply describing the sound of different drivers technology incorporated into each their Pianos.
My raw assumption here is that ceramics to provide the superior inner/micro detailing, thus in most cases, would also perform better at lower volume listening. |
Kclone,
Acording to OSHA sustained(one hour or more)exposure to sound levels at 90db and higher can cause permament hearing impairment.Systems with a low noise floor should easily allow you to listen at levels 60 -70db while preserving reasonable dynamics,detail and a sense of vital energy and life(should`nt sound flat and boring).Listening levels of 75-85db should absolutely be satisfying yet still allow for peaks at higher db levels. If the problem is`nt the speaker then perhaps some other component is the weak link(raised noise floor) |
Kclone to ne honest I have the exact opposite opinion! Because of it's completely flat response you can still hear everything at low levels around 85db! Nothing is hiding, everything still sounds at it's place!
On the other hand it really shines on realistic SPLs as great speakers should!!
IMHO
Mike |
Hey guys. Anyone else notice that Tidal likes to be turned up more than other speaker brands? What I mean is it seems like Tidal does not sound as good as other brands at lower levels but the higher you go Tidal sound quality improve exponentially(at least this is the case with my Pianos). My concern is I am hurting my ears without knowing it. The problem is my system lacks any harshness or edge so it doesn't strain my ears. The SPL reads generally 90-95. I wonder if louder is okay without the evidence of grain or harshness or is it actually the sound/decibel level that matters most? |
Adstew...congrats..welcome to the family...enjoy |
Ebony piano Cera have arrived and are in my listening room warming up as I type. They are the most beautiful speakers I have owned. These were demos so my break in will be brief. Will post some pics and thoughts as I dial them in. One thing for sure...the resolution and imaging is the best I have experienced in my room. |
Indeed you are right, I completely mis read your post. Sorry about that and thanks for clarifying. |
Kclone, I think you misinterpreted my post. Tidal still offers the Piano (sometimes referred to as the Piano Classic) in addition to the Piano Diacera and Tidal's latest design, the Piano Cera. |
So Tidal doesn't make the Piano Classic any more? I wonder why? Oh well. I just dropped a new amp to drive mine. It is form Aspen out of Australia and the amp is called the Maya. It is their flagship amp. It is a zero global feedback design and sound is outstanding. |
Morgan, I forgot to ask what you had before the Tidal Piano Cera and in what ways was the Tidal an improvement. |
Morgan is now an owner of the Piano Cera which is Tidal's high value product IMO. BTW, Tidal has not dropped the Piano which John Potis reviewed in 6moons. |
Morganmadden, which model did you get? Send a picture. This thread has been very quiet recently. Congratulations! I certainly love my Contriva Discera SEs.
I might add, that I have added a Zu Method subwoofer to my system and last night hear what it sounded like without it. Obviously the bass was less profound but the soundstage was not as good. I remember discussions long ago about turning down the tweeters if you really did not have deep bass in your system.
I love the addition whatever might explain this phenomenon. |
I have just had delivery of my new Africam Pyramided Mohagany speakers. What fine pieces of furniture..absolutely magnificent! They are probably the finest finished speakers I have ever laid eyes upon. (And I have been to many a Hi Fi show). They are mounted on very nice crome bars that use "Cherapucs" instead of spikes. They are really extremely wife friendly. The Mrs loves them. Any speaker to grace our front room before were just refered to as "big boxes". Not so with these babies. I think you get the picture.
The sound is very balanced. I am using a set of Unison Research Smart 845 monobloc amplifiers. The sound is wonderful, most lifelike with great separation. I recommend anybody thinking of buying these speakers to read John Potis of 6 Moons review carefully and enjoy! He has described them perfectly (and he is talking about the previous model; so I surely would think these latest models are even better)
The lads in Tidal Audio are most professional, courteous and a pleasure to deal with.
Another satisfied customer!! |
Tbg,
Ihearyou, I don`t doubt Geopolitis`s sincerity for a moment, it`s just that many roads lead to Rome. |
Alectiong, initially it was the prototype tube amps. But was the Aelius monoblocks. I suspect that the Aeliuses are better.
Charles1dad, I agree, but one does like to hear other's sincere opinions, since none of us will have the luxury of hearing all these amps together. |
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Alectiong,
no I haven't compared the Ypsilon and the Sovereign amplifiers side by side. I guess it would be possible to do that in the US since the importer is the same for both brands.
I personally use the Sovereign Director - Glory pair in my personal system and that shows my clear preferences. |
I have not heard Ypsilons with Tidal speakers but I have heard ypsilon amps a lot of times with different speakers. Ypsilon is good but in my honest opinion for a speaker like the Tidal to really shine and show its best you need raw power as little distortion as possible cause these speakers dont forgive ANYTHING in the associated equipment.
On the other hand I have heard Tidals with Tidal electronics and sovereigns amps many times and I can tell you that both combinations are made in heaven. Tidals are a bit more neutral than the Sovereigns or the Sovereigns are a bit mure musical than the Tidals.
IMHO
Mike |
Geopolitis,
They`re just too many varibles involved(components,systems and listener preferences) to declare one great amp far superior to another great one it seems. It certainly appears that the Tidals can sound wonderful with very different amp designs i.e. Ypsilon, Chalice Audio and Sovereign to name a few. I supect with this level of speaker it will simply portray the intrinsic abilities of individual power amps. |
Tbg
What was it with the Ypsilon amps pairing you heard that was better than with the Tidal's own electronics?
Geopolitis, did you compare the Sovereign with Ypsilon? Sorry, I am not familiar with the Sovereign name. |
Tbg,
don't even try to compare the Ypsilon with the Sovereign electronics. Sovereign are far superior products, no doubt about it... |
Alectiong, the last RMAF was the first time I have heard the Tidal electronics on their speakers, the Piano Disceras. On the last day of RMAF, I was pretty impressed with the sound, but it was still far short of what I had heard a year earlier using the Ypsilon amps on the Contriva Discera SEs.
I would dearly love to be able to compare the Sovereign, Tidal, Ypsilon, and Chalice electronics with my H-Cat electronic on the Contrivas. That seems unlikely to ever happen. |
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In shows, the Tidal speakers seem to have been paired with their own Tidal electronics or with the Epsilon tube electronics. Could people who have heard both share their impressions of the relative pros and cons of the pairings? |
Mike, I hope to listen to the Sovereign soon, but I do have the X9 version of the H-Cat amp. Its strength has always been a holographic soundstage and the new version is shocking. It only has three weeks breakin on it, so it is likely to get better yet.
I have also put Synergistic Research Basik bass modules in front of my speakers which has greatly improved their bass response. I have the Zu Method subwoofer also with a bass module in front of it.
I'm still thrilled each night by the music reproduction that I am getting. |
OK it is been almost a month with the Tidal and 10 days with the Sovereign. The sound is unbelievably real, I could never imagine a system reaching such a level of reproduction. Transparency and detail top notch, you can hear......everything. But also it conveys the meaning of the music so well, it bring tears to your eyes!
Happy Listening everyone,
Mike |
Yes, I know and I trust in Tidal so that's why I am going for all Tidal setup (Amps, Preamp & LPX) with Vekian CD & DAC and Argento FMR Cables.
I am waiting for these stuff to arrive then I'll mail more about my musical experience. |
Pa10in, I still remember that shocking moment at the 2009 RMAF when I heard the Tidal Contriva Discera SE with but three days of breakin and run with the Ypsilon amps and preamps. It was the first time that I heard realism from a speaker!
As you say they are very neutral but nevertheless sweet. Brass is real, being both ripe and listenable.
I am now nearly a year with mine, and continue to optimize them. I have found them very revealing of all that comes before them, making critical evaluations of components quite easy. This includes how they are isolated from the floor.
I think you will be even happier in the future. |
Dear Pramod, even from a distance of some 9,000 km, I think I can relate to the joy and excitement you describe. And "it" will happen again each time you'll listen to your system, correction: to the real people performing real music by means of your system; you'll find yourself immersed in music and utterly involved with the artist's emotional expression. Blissful.
Enjoy, my friend! |
The TIDAL Sunray...
Its been a revolutionary experience for me so far. Right now, Im running them on an old Klimo tube preamp and monoblocks which have a rated output of 50Watts. Still the speakers are surprising me. Exhilarating. My earlier set-up consisted of a Soulution Amp and a Lyra Connoisseur preamp running through Bertram interconnects. Before the speakers could give results I did 15 laborious days of break-in. The result simply awe inspiring. The imaging was spot on, the highs were effortless, the mids were prominent, and the bass punchy. I was rediscovering my collection all over again.
Tweaking the placement of the speakers further and playing with the high pass crossover plug got me better results. The image could well be perceived to be 3-dimensional. The tonality is neutral and sweet at the same time. These speakers just keep dropping surprises every time I play a new CD. Norah Jones sounded as husky as ever, Mark Knopfler, I got to know through the sound, is a tall fellow. It all sounds so natural, so basic, and so analogue. Simply beautiful.
Ive come to believe in Tidal products even more and now, to get the best possible synchrony from the system I have now ordered a couple of Tidal Impact amplifiers with LPX and also going for Tidal Presencio Preamp.
Ive been enjoying music at a new level with the Sunrays, and I know, they can still push the envelope further with all Tidal Amps + Preamp + LPX and then just music, just like Audio Nirvana.
Thanks Jörn to fulfil my dream. |
My mistake meant Ypsilon. |
Calloway,
Thanks for the very kind invitation to hear your wonderful system. I had the pleasure of hearing the Tidals driven by Ysilon electronics for a good 45 -50 minutes at this year`s CES . The sound was some of the very best I heard at the show.I just feel however that the Chalice amplifier is exceptional and would allow the Tidals to preform at a supreme level. |
charles...the chalice audio 'talisman' set gives me the BEST musical experience i have ever heard in an audio system...it is truely amazing. i had a friend ..an audiophile...over last sunday to listen to the system. he had been over a month or so prior...to the goldmund driven sound...and after 10 seconds of the 'talisman' sound could not believe the improvement. he stated the same thing that it was the most lifelike musically sounding system he had heard.i can't imagine what it would sound like with chalice's 'grail' amps powering the tidals...the 25 watt 'talisman' is great...but the 50 watt ..full input choke 'grails ..would be unbelievable...pres edmunds..he of chalice audio...has told me that my amps could be upgraded to about 80% of the 'grails' which i may, at sometime in the future , have done...if you are, even the least bit interested in hearing how good the tidals can sound with these amps you are more then welcome to come and hear them..it really is a great sound...i am having a new entertainment center specially built for the system that should be ready in january and will be re-carpeting the room at that time also...can't wait...dave |
Three days with the Sovereigns and what I listen to sounds.....flawless! Hehehe! Accuracy, music flow, detail, micro and macrodynamics are all there and it feels great! Ok, I think I am done for a long time!!
Thanks everyone for sharing experiences!
Mike |
Hi Calloway,
Just curious as to your current impressions as your Chalice amps accumulate more time drving your Tidals. This combination is really unique compared to the common Tidal/ big SS amp approach others follow. |
charles..thanks for the comments...not having been a 'tube guy much in the past...although i did have otl tenors at one time....the sound from the chalice amps is just incredible....every disc i play is like hearing it for the first time...and the right way...really cool..!!!...more tonight |
I eventually sold the Wavacs and I am waiting for the Sovereign Glory power amp and Sovereign Director preamp, match made in heaven with the Tidals!!! I cannot wait!!!! |
Calloway,
Congratulations on your purchase of the Chalice Audio SET amps. I`ve not had the opprotunity to hear them but have heard and read that they`re remarkable sounding components. It`s clear you trusted your ears rather than worry about rated power specifications which can often mean very little under real world circumstances.It does`nt surprise me that a ultra quaility low power SET with a very stout power supply would out class a SS amp with a much higher power output. Spearkers such as yours that are both very resolving yet natural in presentation will always easily reveal the better sounding amplifier.Certainly these speakers can sound quite well matched with high quaility SS amps, but the unique characteristics you`ve noted with the Chalice SET can be rather elusive with many transistor electronics. |
Hello DEV.
I have heard the Sunray on many occasions, from very small rooms (like 20m2) to very large ones (150m2).
You shouldnt worry about this, Sunray is a very well executed speaker that has the ability to show what it can do in many different rooms.
Happy Listening,
Mike |
tbg...too late....although only if i was interested in trying something else....the number of people who have heard these amps all agree that they are either the best SET or in one case 'the best amp' they have ever heard or in a small handful that can claim to be that good...my tidals sound so much better with the chalice amps then with the goldmund....i have never heard mids and highs sound even close to this good....and the bass is superb..i only wish that the 2 gentlemen who are 'chalice audio' were to able to get their amps in front of the right people to jump start their business... |
