Thoughts on adding a McIntosh C12000 preamp to my AVM90 Home Theater Processor....

@whitesarhara 
This is a bit confusing. What component would you be using with the McIntosh?

The C12000 is an Analog Tube/Solid State balanced Preamp, I would connect my Turntable (Technics 1200G), my CD Player (McIntosh MCD12000) to it and connect that directly to my Power Amp MC462 using XLR's.... My Home theater would all connect to the AMV90, and my other digital inputs would connect to that as well, (game system, Roon Nucleus), and the L/R XLR output of the AVM90 would connect to the bypass inputs of the C12000

What power amps do you use for your Home Theater ?

I use the MC462 for the Front L/R, which are Sonus Faber Olymica Nova III's.  The other 3 and the two subs are all powered.  3 x Paradigm Active Reference, and two powered sub's, a Paradigm Servo 15 and a JL audio (can't recall the model)

My opinion is that , with the quality speakers that you have , the sound improvment for your two channels  listening would not be subtil.

Home theater  processors and receivers are not the best for two channels listening.   
 

My Dad just did something similar. He had an Anthem AV receiver and 5 Sonus Faber speakers.

Out of the blue he said " I always wanted a McIntosh" I said "Do it ! "

He picked up a new McIntosh MA8950. I set it up with the Passthrough that I am assuming the 12000 has like the 8950 and 9550. It is slick. You need to wire a trigger to the Mac from the Anthem trigger out. When you do and select the input you have the AVM left and right front connected to it turns on the Mac and puts it in bypass. You are only using it’s amp section. Then when you power off the AVM the Mac returns to its previous state or to its last input. Or off if you used bypass last. Its really slick and allows seamless integration of stereo and HT

He kept the center and surrounds but upgraded the mains to Sonus Faber Electa Amator III. It is a killer setup with hifi and video sources.

Thanks @oddiofyl - did you and your dad hear a noticeable upgrade between the 2 channel audio of the AVM and the C12000??

@whitesarhara, I have a C12000 that I use for two-channel listening and a separate Athem pre-processor for Home Theatre.  For a while, I ran a trigger from the Anthem to the C12000 bypass and connected the front speaker out of the anthem to the C12000 channel 6.  It was perfect but I decided not to use my more expensive amps and speakers for home theatre.  I ended up purchasing the new Martin Logan on-wall speakers and an inexpensive 5 channel amp.  Best decision for me. 

My two channel system consist of: VPI Avenger Reference, MCD12000, Aurender A15, C120000, MC451, B&W 801D4. 

Night and day with movies using the Mac and new SF.    And now 2 channel performance is in another league 

Definitely a 2-channel preamp dedicated to music will be much much better than using a home theater processor - period. Even with lower models like C2600, C2700, you will hear a significant improvement, "night and day."

Yes this will be a nice upgrade you should then  get a seperae dacanderver/streamer to finish your set up

Dave and Troy

Audio intellect  Nj

Mcintosh' s implementation of Bypass and ARC for HDMI equipped models is excellent.    Sound from a TV into the Mac via eARC gives excellent stereo sound with the added bonus of your TV remote controlling the volume and power is also a slick way of listening to TV without surround 

Thanks for the input everyone - I pulled the trigger on the C12000 and am upgrading the Nova III to Serafino G2's...  Should know the outcome of the upgrade this weekend!

I am thinking of doing the same - but got some interesting different advice from the McI dealer. I have a MX123 which I love. Running SF Amati G5 fronts, Nova II surround, Nova 1 back, Gravis VI sub, CII for center. Amatis are on two bi-amp MC451 monoblocks. Use Hifi Rose 150b for dac.

What I am looking for is the best configuration in this scenario for 1) 2 channel (when stereo only) .. 2) ability to run surround to all at times and 3) theatre capability for Bluray - or Apple TV (spatial - Dolby Atmos music is great).

What I cannot get is a clear answer on how - if I buy a 12000 - would it be best to set it up?

Digital out from the HR150B to the MX123 with XLR to the C12000, XLR to the C12000 from the HR150b. Set up 2 listening modes (As I assume bypass basically eliminates the processor in the C12000).

Seems complicated .. where the C12000 manual offers one config - bypass.

Advice appreciated.

@uberk I have almost the exact same set up as you.  Amati G5's biamped with MC451 monoblocks.  My difference is only that I have an AVM90 vs a MX123.

So now that I've actually added the C12000 I can comment on how it works/how its set up.

The L/R output from your MX123 would be plugged into the "passthrough" input, the L/R output goes to your amps on the C12000.   

If you turn on the C12000 your amps turn on, you have an awesome two channel system.  If you turn on your MX123, the C12000 turns on, the amps turn on and the system immediately goes to "passthrough" mode.  Everything works as your existing home theater set up does - the controls on the C12000 are not functional even though its is on.

Works perfectly!

Hope that helps.
PB

@whitesarhara  thank you … and sorry for trying to validate the logic here - think I finally get it. This is very helpful :) as I just got the 451s and the Amatis and … the MX123 doesn’t do them justice

If I read what you are saying correctly, it basically means:

- HR150b into the C12000 via XLR. Exclusive for stereo

- Pass through from MX123 when operating theater system

-  If I also want to have the option of using the HF150b in “all speakers” stereo I would need a 2nd connection into the MX123 (digital from HRose)?and would be operating the c12000 in pass through mode. 

Which now makes sense …. Thanks for confirming this logic 

(and will lead to one more question)

I have all input devices also connected to my AVM90 for mutli speaker output and also for my wife and family to use.  The 2 Channel is only for me ;)

@whitesarhara  ha. Fair enough. 
 

On the C12000, in the home audio config, does it add any value to the sound? 
 

You know in this game you hear what you want to hear, I believe it clearly sounds better - would more intelligent people without the love of gear?  Not sure, but its only my ears that matter!

@whitesarhara .. ha … the forums are so filled with haters and their sine waves (smile) .. so I hear you. After all, confirmation bias still means we gain something from the experience right?

Thanks for the info and sharing. Appreciate it. A C12000 it is to round out the system.

My only last dive will be power. I have a “hum” in my mid on the Amatis with the monoblocks which is driving me mad. Have tried high end Audience Front Row, iFi and a range of other power cables .. bought a Niagara 5000 with their high end cable .. tried direct into the wall and on and on .. and still there.

Just came across this “mad” dialogue on lithium batteries .. where he reviewed a $20K Stromtank vs a “get it at Amazon” Goal One Yeti …. And the reviews are mad.

How this discussion is not everywhere is perplexing.

 https://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0119/Goal_Zero_Yeti_400_Lithium_Portable_Power_Station_Review.htm

Interesting you have "hum" - we virtually have the same system and mine is dead quiet. I use a Niagara 5000, but to be honest I don’t think I’d have a problem if I removed it. Whether I’m using the 2 Channel system with the C12000 or the home theater system with the AVM90 w/"passthrough" of the C12000 - same, quiet! Same amps, same speakers. I am using AQ Pegasus interconnects and AQ Thunderbird Zero/Bass cables - but that would have nothing to do with hum being introduced to your system...

Good luck figuring that out.... maybe a PS Audio regenerator??