Thiel Owners

@jonandfamily have you tried the 3.6 replacement tweeter?  If you did do you have the measurements with the OEM tweeter vs the replacement soft-dome?

bill10907

You might check out my setup in my primary “Virtual System”. After having high powered Krell, Bryston, McIntosh etc with my 3.6s, I’ve been very happy with Audio Research tubes on amp and preamp.

I started with VSi60 integrated amp with KT 120s, then Ref 110, Ref 75, Ref 150 and now Ref 250 mono amps. Each amp had classic ARC sound with huge soundstage (tall, wide and deep), separation with precise imaging and I think you’d be surprised at how well the VSi60 Watt integrated amp drives the big Thiels in spite of most recommending high powered solid state amps. 

@prof @jafant thank you for providing your perspective and experience with the 2.7/3.7!

bill10907

Nice "old" system.  The good news is that Thiel speakers does respond well to Tubed gear (CJ, P.S. Audio, VAC and VTL) just to name a few.  I am a big fan of the CJ CAV 45 control amp. I would like to see the S3 version with more current and power output.  Great opportunity there. Let's see how CJ approaches the next version.  Classe' is certainly a sonic match.

Now, to address your Wattage query.  Anywhere from 50 to 300 watts will be sufficient. Much will depend on your room and volume preference.  Keep me posted as you demo the Amps.

Happy Listening!

Jafant,

Nothing! Just my pair of 3.6. I want to get an integrated tube amp, Cardas Clear or Cardas Clear Beyond for cables, and something to stream with. Budget is 10-12 grand CAN. I don't buy new. Future will be CS6s, but not now. 

Used to have clear beyond cables, Classe 400 watts, ARC PH8 phono, ARC REF 3 pre, Clearaudio Performance SE table, and a Stradivari cartridge. Looking to build a new system anchored with tube amp.

After using the CJ 60se in my 1.6 house system, I think the Classe "voiced" the speakers, not the tubes feeding the amp feeding the 3.6.

Love CJ, but will 45 tube watts be enough? How about 75? Will I need 200 tube watts?

That is my first question: wattage?

solobone22

Nice reply from prof on your CS 2.7 v. CS 3.7 query. I will second, the CS 3.7 with more Bass output. Reason being the CS 3.7 commands a larger room, the owner can employ a larger Power Amp, achieving greater low end energy.

Happy Listening!

bill10907

Good to see you here again. I concur, the CJ Classic 60se is a very fine Amp to drive Thiel CS 1.6 or CS 1.7 loudspeakers.  What gear and cabling is in your system currently?  Nice space 20x20x8.

Happy Listening!

Hi,

I used to have a pretty great analog system driving a pair of 3.6s. I was powering them with 300 watts SS. I had to get rid of that system, except the speakers of course. In the meantime I was listening to a pair of 1.6 driven by a Conrad Johnson Classic 60se, a tube amp. It was a glorious match. I know the philosophy was tube preamp and SS amp, but I now believe it is the amp, the last thing in the chain, that "voices" the speaker. l have read that tube watts are entirely different than SS watts, but I thought I'd ask the gurus to weigh in.

How many tube watts do I need to drive 3.6, and later 6s, to very loud levels. Garage is 20 x 20 ft with 8-foot ceilings.

@solobone22 

Ironically, that’s a question. I sought to answer myself, but I’m not sure I ever truly answered.

When I had both the  3.7 and 2.7 at the same time, I found it they were very close in terms of the sense of bass depth.  Although I could tell that 3.7 went a tiny bit lower, and had a slightly bigger sense of overall scale.

After I sold the 3.7 s,  I was generally fine with the frequency range of the 2.7, but I finally did try and integrate a couple of subwoofers.  I had two JL Audio 110E subs, a terrific CR1 crossover, and a Dspeaker Anti mode for room correction in the bass.

The difference was actually pretty subtle subjectively in terms of extending the bass  and what it added to the sound.  I would say, yeah, it added, perhaps a bit more scale and dimensionality.  But I don’t really I didn’t like this slight change the characteristics that the subwoofers brought to the overall sound.  Plus I found at least my room 2.7 sounded more punchy without the subwoofers.  So I sold them.

Ultimately, if you upgrade to the 3.7s what I think you’ll get is a little more reach in the bottom, but not a lot.  But also some greater scale to the sound in terms of imaging and sound staging, and slightly more refinement overall to the sound.  The bass is a bit more linear, The mid range and highs a bit more suave and refined, and the 3.7 speakers disappear a little bit better.   

I hope that’s helpful. 

@tomthiel thats unfortunate - thanks for looking!

@prof regarding 2.7 vs 3.7 is the latter that much better in the bass?  I'm looking at either upgrading to 3.7 or building custom subs.  This will be to fill out the bottom in large scale orchestra and organ works.

rojacob,

Speakers will be horizontal. I went over and measured today. I will have 1/8 inch clearance. So it will work. 
Need to figure out how to post pics.

Thanks!

cawgijoe,

I installed PowerPlene 1.2 speakers in a conventional 2x4 wall cavity (studs 16" o.c.) without problem, though my sheetrock was 5/8" thick, not 1/2". Long dimension of the speakers are parallel to the studs. I don't think the additional 1/8" is a big deal but YMMV. They've been installed since 2016 without problem.

Good luck!

cawgijoe

Good to see you here again.  Stay tuned until one of our Power plane experts chimes in to address your query. We have a few fans/owners of the PP on The Panel.

What other gear are you planning for your retirement home? Feel free to post and save pics for a Virtual Systems page. That would be very educational.

Happy Listening!

Hey all, I’m in the process of building a new retirement home and have two Thiel Powerplane 1.2 in wall speakers that I want to install to use in a two channel system. I read the Thiel owners/instruction manual which states that you don’t just want to mount them to drywall alone due to vibration possibility. I contacted Rob Gillum and purchased two metal support templates that fit between 16” center wall studs. Looks like a good solution for support and so that the drywall people can cut the correct hole. 
I guess my concern is that the studs are 2x4’s which in reality are 3.5 inches wide and the speaker dimension for depth is 3 and 7/8. Now, the drywall itself is a half inch which should bring the width to 4 inches. It’s cutting it close, but my assumption is that it should fit….anybody out there that has mounted these and can validate? 
I plan to do a “dry fit” before running speaker wire, but thought I would ask.

Happy Friday- All

@tomthiel  Would you happen to have the specs to the Integrator and room compensation components on the SmartSubs?

devinplombier

Nice catch!  I hope these CS7 loudspeakers find the next good home.

Happy Listening!

A pair of CS7 showed up on USADM. They seem reasonably priced at $2.5k, if you happen to be in Nashville TN that is (local pickup only).

One wonders why anyone selling high-end speakers online would only show 3 vague pics of said speakers, none of which even gives a glimpse of the drivers.

Happy Friday! All

3rd Note,

The very nice owner reported that his pair are upgraded from stock to SE kit status.

These speakers are clean and well-cared condition by an Audiophile.

Happy Listening!

2nd Note;

Original Outriggers are included as above.

Happy Listening!

All-

Over on USADM there is a pair of CS 2.4SE in White Oak stain for sale. NC area.

I reached out to the owner to inquire about this color other than Vermillion Red.

I hope these loudspeakers find the next good home.

Happy Listening!

Columbus Day- All

solobone22

Stay tuned until one of our Smartsub experts chime in to address your query.

Happy Listening!

Hello Everyone!

I'm looking for the specs on the Thiel Subwoofer Integrator.  I want to see if there is a way to do the same thing with something like MiniDSP.

Also if the specs on the boundary filters on the SmartSubs are available that would be great.

Happy Friday! All

Rocktober Friday! All

jon_5912

Excellent post!   Happy Listening!

Chick Corea & Gary Burton: Tiny Desk Concert (youtube.com)

This is so good.

Happy Fall Friday! All

jab

I am looking forward to your latest Rack/Stand creations here. What gear and cabling is in your system currently? I also sent an email.

Happy Listening!

jab

Right On!  I have not spent time with the 3.6 speaker. I can certainly vouch for the CS 3.7 model. What are the dimensions of your room/space?

Happy Listening!

jab

Good to see you here today. Been a long time- I hope that you are well and still building those wonderful Racks-and-Stands. Thank You for the tip on SAE in Chicago.

What is your current System these days?

Happy Listening!

Fall Equinox - All

Happy (pre-Fall) Friday! All

All-

over on U.S. Audiomart there are (2) OEM CS 2.3 coaxial drivers avail. Located in HI from a former Thiel dealer/retailer. I hope this pair find the next good home.

Happy Listening!

vair68robert

Excellent. Thank You for citing Dvorak's 9th Symphony and David Crosby.

Happy Listening!

I usually use symphony orchestra music Beethoven's symphonies or Dvorak's "New World " 9th symphony by the Chicago Symphony with Fritz Reiner conducting. I will also use David Crosby's first album to listen to the chiming guitar sounds and how they linger and fade away .

If one feels that your Thiel's are to bright then the adding of a .01uf cap on the tweeter solves the problem ,  the violins now reach the highest levels without sounding bright or brittle , the hall sounds larger than ever , and this was done after installing Mills resistors and Clarity Purity 15uf caps on both the tweeter and mid crossovers .

vair68robert

Can you talk about the presentation and sound after adding those Cardas .01uf capacitors? Feel free to cite your fave musical tracks that saw an improvement "upgrade".

Happy Listening!

I agree with you about the grills off and I too wish the woofers were black ,

I'm not sure if an aluminum baffle frame would be an improvement but since the woofer and the baffle are the same as the 2.4 ( of which many more were built ) maybe someday the dream will come true .

A while back I had tried adding resistors in series with the coaxial speakers , they didn't sound good . Tom suggested tring a bypass capacitor on the 1uf bypass capacitors on the tweeter and the mid speakers , I found a pair of .01uf Cardas capacitors and installed them on the tweeter I can highly recommend this "upgrade" . I only did the tweeter because I think these were the last 2 capacitors for sale since Cardas stopped making their golden ratio caps a while back (bummer) .

Here’s one of my dream tweaks for my 2.7s

replace the front baffle, Which I think is MDF,

With a thicker constrained layer damped aluminum

Baffle.  
 

Also, I’d like to hear my Thiels with the grills off, However

I am allergic to the look of drivers in general, And as neato

as the Thiel drivers are, I’d find them very distracting.

So in my dreams, Rob Gillum comes up with a way

To make the drivers black - Some sort of spray coating?

So that The drivers blend in with the baffle. 

Saturday the 14th -All

Happy Friday! All

devinplombier

Keep me posted on your purchase decision. OTOH, there are a few great Audio shops in the PNW where a sweet pair of Thiel loudspeakers could show up.

Happy Listening!

@jafant 

Thanks for the tip. I researched High Performance Stereo in FL around the time they started advertising these two pairs. The online feedback was not particularly confidence-inspiring: it painted a picture of a business where a knowledgeable audiophile would be comfortable doing business in person, but online buyers reported horror stories that sadly sounded all too credible. 

PayPal protects online purchases to some extent, but may require goods to be shipped to a third party after settlement, at buyer's expense. That would be an issue :)

I live in the Pacific Northwest btw.

All -

Over on eBay there are a pair of CS5i Scan Speak woofers being offered in Asheboro NC area. I hope these drivers and loudspeakers find the next good home(s).

Happy Listening!