Thiel Owners
Nkonor... My nephew still has the 3.5's without experiencing any issues whatsoever. (With the repaired mids.) Actually, only one of the mids on that pair was malfunctioning but I thought "what the heck" and had 'em both done by Rob at Thiel. Total cost of the original purchase plus repair was, I think, $1400 - a figure that kind of boggles the mind considering what $1400 for a new pair of brand x might get you. The middle pair of 3.5's I had were 100% functioning. No issues whatsoever. The last pair, which I've gutted and saved all the drivers and crossovers, and the eq, had both mids completely out. Again, "what the heck" since I paid just $200 for them. The cabinets were challenged beyond what I determined to be a worthy restore. I've offered the drivers and eq to a fellow contributor in this forum for free if he's willing to pick them up. He has the first right of refusal. If he passes on the offer I'll offer the same to any other member here with the same caveat. The woofers are in fine shape , the tweeters have dimpling but sounded fine. The notorious midrange drivers, well, for a fellow Thielista with mids in more compromised physical condition than these - "hmmm, why don't you work, you look okay?" - might want them for repair. Again, free if picked up. This afternoon I listened to my recently acquired BAT integrated without the REL sub in the chain and find that the 3.6's are revealing more sufficient detail at low level listening than with the Simaudio Neo. The phono stage in this BAT is truly remarkable, far better than the Neo's managed to be. As you noted and I've said, I continue to be curious about other speaker brands, with Thiel and Magnepan being my personal point of reference for what a speaker should do for me. Both brands do a lot for me, and Thiel edges out Maggie in that comparison. Maggies suffer by dint of their size and how they impose themselves, Maggies win because of their light weight and move ability. Thiels are HEAVY mothers. Also both are weighted in terms of being able to acquire them - my financial wheelhouse would never assume a $10k+ expenditure. By the way I never had a Pass integrated. I had an X150.5 amp and a BAT VK3i preamp at that time. I went for the BAT Integrated this time around because a decent used Pass integrated was/is roughly double that. Ouch. I liked the BAT pre so much I figgered chancing an integrated from them was fairly low risk. I was right, I'm liking this thing a lot. |
oblgny, I agree; The 3.5s were magic and a true reference speaker. But as I stated, the midrange drivers were unreliable for me. Used a pair of Forte' 75w pure Class A monos and then used a pair of Spectral DMA 90s Used as bridged 200w monos. If I have read in this thread; you have had a number of 3.5 midrange drivers go bad. I would be interested to to hear how long your nephew's have held up. Maybe you'll return to a Pass intergrated one day. I am sure your journey is not over. For now; I have never been more pleased with one of my systems than I am now. Vinyl, Tubes, and Class A Rule. Just IMHO there are equal and better speakers than Thiels; But you will need to pay a hefty price for them. Took me four (4) years and 8.3X the price I paid for he 3.5s Best to you |
nkonor... I've actually had a pair of 3.5 mids repaired by Rob @ Thiel - my first pair which are now in my nephew's possession. I'd have to scroll back through the 1800 + posts here to verify it, but the rebuild, as opposed to "repair", was $350 apiece all things totaled - shipping back and forth, labor. Not necessarily cheap, but an investment worth the money considering how utterly good the 3.5's were. Are. Would it it be a disservice to the new owners to pass along a link to this and other Thiel threads here so they may garner some idea of how far off the mark their current and former strategies are? I doubt it. Their intentions were and continue to be guided by marketing, not product. "Hey guys, look at this premium loudspeaker brand that costs a lot! We can do that!" They've proven from the outset that they cannot do that, nor did they have any intention of respecting Jim Thiel's work. Pretty appalling all around. In all likelihood my 3.6's will be the last loudspeakers I'll purchase. I continue to cultivate my interest in other brands, listen to them when time permits, but I usually come to the conclusion that, gee, well, they ain't Thiels. Man, that guy knew his sh*t! |
tmsrdg, I did Not see any mention of being able to "Special Order" any models of the Legacy Speakers on the now Lame Thiel website. I was just following a comment by "prof" @ 2:53. Perhaps the OP; jafant will revive Thiel and bring us Thiel speakers and continue Jim's work. Maybe complete a 3.7SE, maybe a 7.2SE. Perhaps he can bring on some of the other people like oblgny, vair68robert, jond and keep Rob in the game. Maybe they can get the midrange drivers for the 3.5s to Last and get rid of that awful bass EQ . Maybe, Perhaps???? Just getting rid of the current owners and management would be a step in the right direction. Otherwise IMO ; Thiel is a "Dead Speaker Walking" (playing music?) Best to All |
Let’s face it, Thiel is gone. I am fortunate to own and enjoy CS6 and CS2.4 models and I will treasure these fine instruments for a very long time. What irritates me is that the company couldn’t, or wouldn’t, even continue manufacturing the line as Jim left it. At least for 1, 2, 3 and 7 series. Somehow, that doesn’t seem right, but the bean counters must have concluded there was little money in it. Those designs alone are still valued and enjoyed. Perhaps when they are so rare that the price of pre-owned reach MFSL will they restart production? |
There is not whole lot to say about a new management who prioritizes wireless lifestyle speakers, merchandise over their legacy speakers. https://thielaudio.co/shop Here is the kicker, the baseball cap has following description, "Made of 100% Cotton. This baseball cap features Thiel Audio's logo embroidered on front, "Est. 1977" embroidered on the side and an antique brass buckle closure on the back for adjustable sizing" And TT1 - $7000 speaker has no description at all 😳 Very unfortunate turn of events for once so highly revered company. |
I wonder how long they will keep Rob and supporting the actual Legacy Speakers? How long has Rob been with Thiel? How old is he? Maybe thinking about retirement himself ? Those who have Legacy Thiels that are in great shape and sound great need to consider these thoughts. Will Thiel actually make Legacy models on "Special Order" and at what costs? For how long? As my 3.5s kept losing Midrange Drivers and Tweeters and Kathy finally said my warranty was up ; I decided to move on. With the current leadership at Thiel, My doubts would grow more concerned. Best to All |
Oh man, that interview with the new CEO! She kept talking about how the company had to remember they are a "speaker company" and that was their identity. Said it numerous times. But when it comes to speakers what does she say? Aside from a pair of me-too little lifestyle wireless speakers, THEY AREN'T DESIGNING ANY MORE SPEAKERS! In fact, they aren't even manufacturing speakers...except if someone specifically asks they'll build an old legacy model. A more contradictory, self-undermining interview I've rarely seen. The company looks now exactly what you'd think it would look like if someone with no knowledge or interest in speakers took it over. It's just taking the name and making it into an entirely new business, reflecting the lack of audio interest in the CEO (and whoever else is involved). Yuck. |
Good point prof perhaps a name change would have been better for the future. However, my bet is they were hoping for some residuals versus behaving more like a start-up. Now they have to figure out how to bring new consumers in, especially milleniuls. No clue how thats going to play. Either way the Thiel we know and love is totally gone. They are just waiting for legacy brands and their consumers to fade away. |
The first post-Jim Thiels actually got some good reviews. I really think they may have done better under a new company name. I think putting them under "Thiel’ actually hurt them, because the whole reason Thiel’s name meant anything had to do with a specific man, and a specific type of speaker design - that’s what the name symbolized. Putting out an entirely different type of speaker using the Thiel name only breeds ill-will or lack of interest among exactly those loyal consumers who held the Thiel name in high regard. If you aren't courting the very people among whom the name Thiel has any pull or cache...what are you doing with the name? A total shoot yourself in the foot company move, IMO. |
Anyone visit the current Thiel website lately? Boy it's depressing. It looks like a company that is almost gone, like a generic web site selling over the net lifestyle products: https://www.thielaudio.com/ I went through it wondering "where are the speakers?" I had to dig down into the menus to finally find just a handful left of the (non-Jim) Thiel speakers now called "Legacy Products" (so selling those last ones off), along with hats and T-shirts. Man it's just too sad what happened. It's hard to imagine what the point of calling a company like that "Thiel." People associated a certain speaker with that name, and they sell nothing like it. so what does the name even get them? |
So, there I was a week ago awaiting the arrival of my recertified BAT VK300XSE from Colorado... I got what I feel was a fair enough trade-in on my Simaudio Neo340iDPX2 toward the BAT, $1800 toward the $3100, so all was good there. I didn't want the hassle of selling it privately nor did I want the swing-time between committing to the BAT and getting the offset from the Neo. The BAT arrived Saturday of Labor Day weekend - days before it was scheduled. Woohoo. Happy camper. I unbox it, wire it up, plug it in and...nuttin'. It goes into standby/warmup mode, but nothing further. Blank face. Zippo. Nada. Zilch. I check and double check everything. Same thing. Nuttin'. I send an email explaining the situation. No response until after the weekend. (Understandable.) Turns out they're not open weekends, anyway. My contact there contacts BAT and they forward a set of re-boot instructions which are included in the original owner's manuals but NOT in their recertified units. I re-unbox the unit, wire it up, plug it in, follow the procedure and... nuttin'. Big ol' brick once again. I re-do everything again. Check everything. ( Not a helluva lot to do so far as hooking up an integrated amplifier, is there?) Nuttin'. Sigh. My contact then sends me another email with a shipping label going to BAT directly for the non-working unit. He then immediately ships another recertified VK300XSE to me. It arrived today. It works. I was right about my 3.6's liking a little more power. (300 vs 200 watts @ 4ohms). While the Neo was nothing to sneeze at by any means, the BAT simply "presents" better overall, particularly at the conservative level I find myself listening at 90% of the time. The phono stage in the BAT is also more detailed. Good stuff. I'm still finding that adding the REL T7 to my system improves things. I'll be taking it in and out of service to determine how the BAT itself improves upon the Neo, but I can't say at this moment if it warrants removing the REL altogether. I like the way everything is sounding. The folks at TMR did everything right addressing my problem with the first unit. I couldn't ask for better - they treated me well. Back to digging the hell outta my Thiels... |
Good to see you again- cd318 So long as you are pleased w/ your gear and musical presentation, mission accomplished. I can second Creek gear prior to the Evolution series ( I have not heard those amps). There is a bit of magic in those integrated amps. Surprisingly very good and a steal at their price-points for Thiel models CS 2.4 and down. Happy Listening! |
tmsrdg, I hear you. My listening room is a main floor room which I try to maintain as the nicest looking room in the house (first room you see when you step in our door). Aesthetics are a high priority so I always insist when I can on waiting on the right speaker finish. (I had to wait years for a pair of Thiel 2.7s to show up in the finish I wanted). |
Hi jafant! Yes this hobby is all about music and friends can only help broaden tastes. It took me many years of climbing the audio ladder, far too many, before I was realised what I was looking for in music reproduction. Until then, the whole upgrade thing was always strangely unsatisfying despite great magazine reviews. Nowadays I am still interested in potential improvements to my system, eg loudspeakers such as the Thiel 3.7s as mentioned by prof, but I do love the sound my speakers and amp (modded Tannoy Berkeleys and Creek something) are making. |
marqmike, Having owned both the 2.4's and now the 3.7's,I would save money and buy the 2.4's!While I do like my 3.7's ,I cant say they are many 1000's of dollars better?The 3.7's play larger because they are.I think some 2.4's with some good electronics can be quite a formidable system!I heard some of the best bass from my 2.4's with a McIntosh amp! |
Good to see you again- marqmike, I am excited for you as the CS 2.4 is a honey of a speaker at any price. Yes, 125/250 watts is plenty of power to drive those speakers. Your measurements look good as well. Once you take receipt of the speakers, placement/measurement can always be adjusted to taste. To my ears, the CS 2.4 and 3.7 are not that far apart. Some differences are the 3.7 is larger in size and scale, Mr. Thiel's last generation of drivers in the time/phase coherence tradition and can fill a larger listening space with ease. Having heard models- 2.4, 2.4SE, 2.7 and 3.7 at length- one cannot go wrong with any of these offerings. Prices are right as well. Keep us posted as you massage the speakers into your system, home. Happy Listening! |
Hello Thiel listeners I am excited I should receive a pair of 2.4's in about 1-2wks. There was some 3.7's listed that I thought about, but then felt it might be to much of a speaker for me, and that I couldn't go as wrong with the 2.4's in my basement. I had some 1.2's new when they came out and moved on from them but never replace them in my mind. I am probably going to ask a few questions at times, and from reading this thread since it was started it looks like I will get some fine suggestions, so thank you for this thread Jafant. Would you say off the top of your head my present amp 125 watts into 8ohms and 250 into 4ohms would be capable for a good while power wise? And outside of power for the 2.4's what is one or two things you could say you would want to make sure of. I have 30-36 inches out from the wall I can place them. No side walls to worry about, they are about eight feet away. And my listening position will be about nine feet away. Any suggestions appreciated. Now for fun did I get close to the 3.7's or should I get them if they are still available. Can I do an upgrade to bring it close to the SE model or would I want to? Thank you friends. |
I tried my Goldenear xxl sub out with my 3.7's this weekend just to experiment,the combination was remarkable!My setup is in the basement filled with weight equipment and concrete surfaces.Far from an ideal location,but safer from kids and pets!homemade sound panels have helped a lot!I really feel the sub blends well down there,filling a large area with satisfying bass.Getting good sound in my basement has been a challenge,but I'm slowly winning!Man Cave! |
Welcome! kevinaudio- another audiophile on a different forum liked XLO cabling with Thiel speakers. I have heard Nordost Blue Heaven cabling w/ Bryston gear in the past. Very nice combo. Another brand to consider is Audioquest, another sonic match for Bryston and Thiel. Keep me posted on your decision. Happy Listening! |
prof166 posts06-24-2017 4:45amjonandfamily, "My own subjective impressions, especially of amplifiers, aren’t much use to other people I think. We all have different tastes, different hearing, different criteria; what I hear as uninvolving will be someone else’s musical nirvana. And by "bleached" I’m talking of timbral or tonal color, nothing to do with dynamics. I tend to sort of see colors when listening to sound (and clearly so do some other people, which is why lots of audiophiles refer to colors in describing sound). When I listen to my acoustic guitar I always "hear" a golden sparkly tone. I’d take that recording around to various systems and speakers: from most of them, I don’t hear that tone. It’s more silver/gray. And that’s my main complaint with most systems: they sound "bleached" of tonal color, which is what I always perceived whenever I was able to compare Audio Research amps with, say CJ amps, over the years (and that’s only a few times, really). That doesn’t mean someone else will hear the same thing. Although...it was interesting to see it described that way here, and I have seen the Audio Research sound described similarly over the years. Just like the CJ sound is often described as "golden." My pal loves his Audio Research amp - had it forever, doesn’t want to part with it." Wow! This is the single greatest posting I have ever read on any audio website. Its wonderful to know there are other people out there who feel the same way about tonal colour. I have heard cheap car stereos, portable radios, even TVs which sounded better than some (so called) high end audio with its highly detailed, wide bandwidth but timbrally washed out monochrome sound. Totally unsatisfying. It’s a pity that Thiel didn’t have much of a presence here in the UK, but we still have Tannoy and Harbeth. |
First I would like to thank jafant for going out of his way to offer his assistance. . For all the 2.4SE owners , I learned that the crossovers used are more than just larger and higher quality capacitors, Thiel re-tuned the entire crossover circuit . For the 3.7 owners something that didn't happen , just before Thiel was sold they were working on a 3.7SE ! And for the project that I thought I could do with my 2.7s , I have discovered that my desire and enthusiasm were way ahead of my knowledge of the speaker cabinet construction , making the proposed project much more difficult and possibly damaging . I will not risk removing the woofer . Not that I'm unhappy with the sound of the speakers. Oh well , I'll work on my Carver SA/D 490T CD player. I have used BlueJean Cables and I too ordered the 10 guage speaker wire and used their interconnects, sounded great for a great price. Then moved up to Cardas Quad Link and now am using Cardas Neutral Reference with the hope of finding a used pair of Golden Reference some time in the future. |
kevinaudio, Given you've expressed some reservations about spending too much on speaker cables, if you want to get off that merry-go-round you can always get professional, competently made cables by Beldon which will pass all the same electrons as the super expensive stuff. I buy from Blue-Jean cables, the Belden 5000 series: http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/speaker/index.htm I use the 10-gauge 5T00UP as I have a pretty long speaker cable run. Review with measurements (something you don't usually get for the high-end cables): http://www.audioholics.com/gadget-reviews/blue-jeans-10awg-speaker-cable-5t00up/blue-jeans-cable-mea... $22 for a pair. Think of all the money you'll save to put towards music....:-) (BTW, if you want to talk expensive cables: I've heard speakers I own hooked up to a variety of high end cables, up to $30,000, and to my very picky ears they sounded no better than they did with the Belden cable). |
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