Thiel Owners

Now that I've read through this entire thread (!!) I feel it's probably okay for me to chime in a bit more about my 3.7 impressions and my set up. Let me start, however, by saying how great it is to read so many passionate posts about Thiel speakers and accompanying equipment. And as for the OP,  I'm convinced you're either an amateur museum curator of Thiel 2.4se speakers or the ghost of Jim Thiel himself, just doing his best to keep the legacy alive.  Regardless, I'm glad you reached out to me and clued me in on this great thread.

Regarding my own system, first let me say how surprised I was to see I'm apparently alone in my use of a pure Class A amp to drive my Thiels.  Not that I'm opining one type is better than the other - I just find it interesting there aren't more owners out there with similar set ups.  My Accuphase A50 is rated at 50/100/200 at 8/4/2 ohms, so it has oodles of current to deal with the 3.7s.  Mated with my tube preamp (a Cary SLP-05), I'm in sonic bliss regardless of the situation.  My music tastes vary from rock to jazz to classical to country - really, just about everything - and I've never found my system wanting.  In terms of describing the sound, I think the best description I can give is how it makes me feel when I listen to something.  For example, while reading this thread I was playing Thelonious Monk's "Solo" on vinyl, and I could literally feel him banging on the keys as if he were punching each of them with his fingertips.  The music from these speakers just grab you without ever wanting to let go. Like most of you, I've listened to many speakers, but to me these are the first "box" speakers I've heard that literally almost disappear. As someone else pointed out, it's similar to what I experienced when listening to Maggies, but with (IMO) better soundstage and speed. Simply put, it's just a helluvah speaker. 

There's a lot of talk about cabling here.  I do believe it makes a difference, but to me it's in the fractions and not whole percentages.  That being said, I'm not as bold as prof - I run my system fully balanced using cables from Acoustic Zen and Wireworld.

I also use a subwoofer.  It may not be necessary for 90% of the music I listen to, but there are occasions when I'm glad it's there.  My sub is a REL Stentor III with the crossover set to 32hz.  I use REL's speakon cable which is directly connected to my amp's speaker terminals.  Is it perfectly seamless?  All I can say is nobody has ever been able to tell that it's on, so I'll take that as a sign that it's properly dialed in.

Last thing I'd like to add is how great it would be to hear more about what people are listening to on their Thiels.  As much as I love to geek out on the audiophile stuff (and trust me, I do), I also love being turned on to new artists or albums that others have discovered.  So when you're talking about your Thiels, please try to throw in a word or two about what you're currently playing.  Just my two cents, of course..

Cheers,

David 

Happy Friday -All.

Nice 2.4's on eBay....!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Thiel-CS2-4-Speaker-Pair-in-near-mint-condition/253287294724?hash=item3af91...

prof,
I must say I completely agree with you on cabling vs. room treatment and placement. There is so much to be had simply by moving furniture or changing angle/placement of speakers. You can dial in exactly what you want from your system...

New owner, 1st post.  

I've been enjoying my 3.7s immensely.  Always been a Thiel fan, and the 3.7s were near the top of my want list for awhile.  Found a pair of Les Paul's a few months ago and just couldn't resist. Best upgrade to my system in quite some time.

Anyways, thanks to jafant for turning me on to this thread.  Still combing through it, but looking forward to hearing more from other Thiel owners.  The company may not be the same, but its clear from this thread that Jim Thiel's legacy is as strong as ever..

Happy listening,

David

Much Thanks! prof.
No, not an employee of Walmart, Inc. I would not mind owning some of the company's older holdings though.
Happy Listening!

jafant,

I appreciate your enthusiasm.

Looking at your last string of posts:  I know the original comment was deleted, but you have to admit that question as to whether you are a Walmart Greeter in your spare time was pretty funny :-)

Hope you guys had a fun and music -filled holiday weekend.
Happy Listening!

Happy Friday! All

Happy Thanksgiving! ALL

Good to see you- prof.
Happy Listening!

Bill 10907,

Since you welcome all opinions...here’s mine :-)

Don’t rely on cables as an attempt to tone control. Aside from the dubious claims that they will make much difference in the first place, if cable manufacturers are changing the sound, then they are designing the cable to depart from neutral. Why roll the dice like that?

You could simply purchase cables by Belden or Canare (or the like) from, say, Blue Jeans cable. They are pro-grade cables, by companies that actually supply measurements, so you know you are getting competently designed cables not meant to alter the signal or sound. From that starting point you can know it’s not the cable, save significant money by not playing the audiophile cables-sweepstakes, and concentrate funds or attention to where differences will matter more, especially the interaction of the speaker/room. Placement and angling, not to mention some room treatment if necessary, will render differences FAR bigger than any (competently) designed cable.

I can make my Thiel 3.7s or 2.7s sound thinnish and bright if I really toe them in, or deep, smooth and lush simply by toeing them out. In fact I’m constantly amazed how much sonic difference the slightest adjustment of speaker position or toe in makes (which is expected by acoustic theory).  I can make the sound dense, punchy and exciting by pushing the speakers back some more, or enveloping and ethereal by moving closer to nearfield.  Or a mix in between.  These are levels of sonic difference no cable can give you.

I know a lot of audiophiles don’t want to hear this type of advise; we want everything to make a difference so we are "in control" and the idea of tweaking with cables appeals to this. And the manufacturers will happily take your money by preying on this audiophile nervosa. But...there are other ways.

I just bought a beautiful new turntable that I would not have been able to afford if I’d allocated the portion of funds to high end cables that many audiophiles presume to be necessary.

Now...back to expensive cable recommendations from others....;-)

Happy Friday-All

Fred's Sound of Music in Portland Oregon
has a pair of CS3.6s for sale $899.95  as is ,
and a pair of CS2.2s for $999.95.
(503) 234-5341

zkga
Yes do contact Rob at Thiel , you have 2 options ,
look at images on Goggle , one is the spike used on the 3.7 and 2.4se
the other is the standard spike, if you are going thru carpet
I recommend the ones used on the 3.7s .
I purchased these and used the locking nut from my original 
standard spikes on my 2.7s.
If you don't have locking nuts ask him about that .

Bill 10907
I too use Cardas thru-out, I have the Neutral Reference
interconnects and speaker cables and am very pleased with the sound,
You might want to try the Cardas Hex-link speaker cables
you might also try room treatment first.

Rob

zkga,


think about contacting Mr. Rob Gillum at Thiel customer service in Lexington KY. If I run across a set I will contact you. Keep us posted.

Happy Listening!

Good to see you- bill10907
you have a very good ear- the Cardas Golden Cross is notoriously warm.
Still, it is an iconic cable to this day and used in many of the Audio press' systems. I have heard the Cardas  Clear, Clear Beyond. While not as warm as these older models, will continue to give the listener the company's signature sound (warmth and detail). Maybe one of the guys here can chime in to your query.
Happy Listening!

Speaker cable question for Thiel lovers. My speaker cables are Cardas Golden Cross. Interconnects are Cardas Clear. I bought the Golden Cross cables back in the day when I could not afford the electronics needed to tame my Thiel 3.6 highs. Might also have been room problem, placement, etc. Now I have the electronics and I now feel I might be losing something with this VERY WARM speaker cable. Associated equipment is ARC REF 3 Pre, ARC PH8 phonopre, Classe CA-2200 amp, Clearaudio Performance SE with Stradivari V2. All opinions are appreciated, including recommendations. Thanks again.

Hey Guys, 

any ideas on where I can find a set of spikes for my 2 2's  ? 

Best,
Greg

Good to see you- zkga and prof
take your time and move the speakers around your listening space (if you can based on configuration/design). Then dial -in to a more specific taste in presentation. And yes, sonic changes can occur with the simplest of movements. Keep me posted on your progress.
Happy Listening!

zkga,

Glad it worked out for you.  Your experience is the type of lesson many audiophiles could benefit from; you'll get far more from the free tweak of playing with speaker placement than from spending money playing cable roulette.  (And of course addressing room acoustics if necessary - which may not be free depending on the acoustic solution, but is likely to still be less expensive than a lot of audiophiles spend on cables). 

I'm constantly amazed at how much sonic change can occur moving or angling a speaker by inches - sometimes even less.  But, that's the physics of acoustics for you.

Basics!  sometimes I forget the simplest things.  I asked Jafant earlier about cabling for a pair of 2 2's I just picked up. They just didn't seem as quick in the lower registers as the 1.5's they just replaced..  Well in my excitement of setting up the 2 2's I quickly put two pair of speakers smack dab in the right front corner of the room, the 1.5's and an old pair of ported PSB 5T's ..... talk about some excessive room treatment!  The unnecessary bass traps were immediately re located to the basement and the 2 2's now sound the way all good Thiels do!  These sound very easy to drive compared to other models I've listened to .... Still on the hunt for 3.6's but very happy until then.

Good to see you again- vair68robert,
another +vote for hugging our beloved Thiel speakers. It took 2 years for me to find my pair from the original audition date to sale date.

Great stories guys.
Happy Listening!

Prof
I glad to hear you Hugged your Thiels after cheating in them
by listening to the Paradigms.
Have you been able dial in the 2.7's  yet ?

Stevecham
Yes I live in Eugene, moved here from Chicago 12 years ago where
I frequented Reckless Records on N. Broadway .
Where's the other Finest record store ?
I see that you have CS6's , I looked and they are beautiful .
Where in S OR do you reside ?
I am just exploring Rush because Saffron_boots ( Warren ) said he used one of their songs to evaluate speakers,
since I didn't have any Rush It got me motivated to explore and expand my Rock collection which basically stops about the time when
ELP came out with Works and Pink Floyd with Animals .
I saw then both at Soldiers Field Chicago .

Veterans-
Thank You For Your Service. America would not enjoy Liberty nor Freedom
without your Heroic efforts.

No problem- zkga
on the few occasions that I have heard a Cardas cable, it is too warm for my taste. This was on tubed  and solid state gear. The Golden Reference is an iconic IC used by many writers of the Audio press, so referencing it will not be an issue.
Happy Listening!

Thank you for the reply Jafant!  you don't need to do my homework for me though! 

I'll dig into it.  I have Anticable 2.0 that have been very good on the 1.5's but something in my combo (cardas golden ref balanced IC's) isnt working quite as well on the 2 2's They seem a bit dark on lower midrange and slightly loose on the bass. amp is a Coda pushing 400 into 8 and 800 into 4ohm loads

Thanks! for the update- marqmike.
good to read that Rob ruled out a failed driver saving you time and money for any rebuild. Agreed, the CS 2.4 is an excellent speaker and offers excellent value. Last pair I spotted on eBay were listed for $1699-
A steal at that price!  I really believe that the redesigned oval passive radiator is the reason that the 2.4 betters the 2.2/2.3 models. Not sure if the cross-over was re-worked or not? Could be a combination of both?
Happy Listening!

Good to see you - zkga
I have not heard any of the Alpha Core nor Anticable offerings. Each brand has a strong following. I will search over the other audio forums and try to get answer for you regarding sonic matches.
When I was auditioning Thiel speakers, attempting to nail down the model that I wanted for myself, Audioquest products were involved. Excellent sound and an excellent value- even the older cables/cords.
Happy Listening!

I got my 2.4's running. I sent one low freq driver in to Rob at Thiel and he run it through a scan and he found it was okay. So I looked at the connections inside the cabinet a lot better than I did before I sent it in. I looked it really good over then so I thought I wouldn't find a loose connection. Well I found a loose connection on the board for that driver. I put everything back together, it works fine. 
Now I am ecstatic at how they sound. Much better than my recollection of the 1.2's that I had 20yrs ago, and those sounded very good and balanced. 

Jafant, have you used Anticable IC's with your Thiels? . I've had great luck with Audioquest (Cheetah XLR) in the past but am having a hard time find anything used in the length I need.  I'm changing my room around to support longer, balanced IC's (3 meters) and shorter speaker cables. planning on the alpha core MI 2's or the 3.1 anticables. Thoughts?

Insane! there are now (2) pairs of CS 2.4SE speakers for sale here on Audiogon.  Hope these speakers and the CS 3.7 models find a good home.

Happy Listening!

Happy Friday- ALL

Right On! prof
I spent some demo time a few years back w/ the Paradigm Signature (S8)
speaker with an Anthem pre/processor, power amp and Audioquest cabling all around. Not sure which cross-over is deployed in that model compared to Thiel? I concur w/ your thoughts/impressions- very clean and very clear in presentation. Still, to my ears, the S8 did not get the timbre nor richness
accurate. This is not a fault, merely, different.
Indeed, Anthem does build powerful amps.
Happy Listening!

jafant,

The Paradigms were mated with a big Anthem amp. Don’t know which one, but it was big! I first listened to some vinyl (I don’t know what record player) and then I listened to my own burned CD demo tracks (I think it might have been a Bryston CD player, but not sure).

I paid no attention to cables, sorry ;-)

My feeling is that I’d prefer the Paradigms on tubes, like my CJ amps. I found the Paradigms a bit relentless to listen to after a while. Though I’d be a bit wary about the bass control if they weren’t paired well with the right tube amp, just because even with the Anthem they were just edging into the "rich, round bass" territory and I don’t know if they’d edge over into loose bass. Thought not against the back wall, they were closer than I’d want ideally so I heard a little bass lift (even though the Paradigm’s downward facing port is supposed to make them less sensitive in terms of placement). As usual I took various seating positions, close and far, to take the room out of the equation to some degree.

The main impression is very open, airy - giving a very live realism - and very clean and clear.

In comparison I've dialed in my Thiels to achieve a sound I prefer, which is an almost ideal (to my tastes) combination of clarity, energy and warmth.  They are completely unfatiguing.   The Paradigms tended to emphasize the artificial nature of recordings, with harder sibilance and a slight hi-lighting of singers breath over the actual vocal tone of the note, the slightly icy, chalky character of bow on string emphasized vs the deeper string tones.  Singers always sounded very clear in a "hi-fi" manner, but never particularly warm and real.

In comparison,  my Thiels/CJ combo has more warmth, and less emphasis on the lower treble area, for a slightly darker sound, but to my ears less artificial and electronic.

The Paradigms were often captivating, though.  They have a big, full sound - so you get really nice scale for the size - I woudn't need any bigger (though I think I get even bigger scale from the 3.7s when they are set up).

In terms of clarity and realism, the Paradigms gave one of the most impressive playbacks of Herbie Hancock's song Chameleon that I've ever heard!

Another thought that begs the question- wadav;
Whom else, besides SG,  considered buying into the company after Mr. Thiel passed?

Happy Listening!

Good to see you- prof

what other gear accommodated the Paradigm Personal 3F.
Can this speaker mate with solid state and tubed electronics?
Happy Listening!

Thanks! for sharing- wadav
Happy Listening!

I auditioned the much-hyped Paradigm Persona 3F speakers today.
They were very impressive in many ways, balanced, open, detailed, clean.

But I'll say this:  when I got home and put the same music on my Thiels, I felt like hugging my Thiels :-)

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/qa-with-sandy-gross-of-goldenear-technology/

Absolute Sound interview with Golden Ear's Sandy Gross states he looked at buying Thiel before starting Golden Ear, even meeting with Kathy Gornik. Interesting.

@Rob: Hey are you in Eugene? Last year I moved to S. Oregon but lived in Eugene for many years and HOR is one of two finest stores.

And, yes, I am a huge Rush fan.

@pops 

+1 on the CS6s. I'm going on 13 years with my pair and they never fail to satisfy. I swear bass extension keeps improving year after year.  Mine are Amberwood.

Hey guys,  Last year I got my first pair of Thiels, birdseye 1.5's  that were local to me.  Loved them right off! I immediately started looking for 3.6's based on a lot of the feedback here.  Thiel's don't come up for sale often here in the NW but I just picked up a nice pair of 2 2's today. they sound good, a little more depth and presence in the midrange and some needed weight in the lower bass.  diggin it!  I'll probably list the 1.5's in a week or so

Rob,

I agree with you about the looks of the 2.7s ,they are gorgeous
the 3.7s kinda look like a skinny r2d2.

Ha, just this weekend I had a guest say the 3.7s looked like a skinny R2D2!

Having hosted a gathering of pals, I was doing a little poll as to which speakers I should keep, on looks alone.  For me it seems a no-brainer: the 2.7s.  Yet opinion was divided on the looks of the speakers with, to my surprise, slightly more people preferring the look of the big 3.7s! 

They thought the 3.7s looked a bit more cool, different "statement-like."