Good to see you- William (oblgny)
are you still enjoying the sound of your system via Goertz cabling?
Do you miss the Transparent cabling? Regarding the 3.5 model, watch eBay often. As of late there have been many pairs of both 3.5 and 3.6 loudspeakers for purchase.
Happy Listening!
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prof...
I believe that I was running my first pair of 3.5's with a Cayin integrated that put out somewhere around 30 watts in triode believe it or not. As you've found yourself, running a little hotter volume wise really lets this brand sing but, and a big but, I tend to listen at levels that most people would describe as "low", even though I turn it up until it sounds "right."
Slipping in a pair of Goertz alpha core veracity cables did manage to effect a somewhat better definition at my level, but to my ears the 3.6's just aren't providing something that the 3.5's did, and that appears to be a lessening of the highs? Just my ears saying that - if ears could talk.
Since I sold off my second Pass Labs X150.5 it might be unfair to compare the two in hindsight, especially since I found Pass/Thiel to be the best setup I've had. (I should hasten to add that I've three pairs of 3.5's...) The Pass was mated to a BAT VK3i preamp which was also excellent, but I do think that Pass mates equally well, if not better, with an Audio Research pre.
But then again, I've decided that separates drove me to distraction, that I was more concerned with the equipment than I was with the music. The BAT integrated I now own, a VK300xse, has more than enough juice I need for these and any other speakers I may wind up getting - hopefully yet another pair of Thiel. |
oblgny,
I hope some day you get a chance to try the 3.7s in your system. Apparently Jim was deliberately going for a higher efficiency than previous Thiels (Stereophile measure it just under 91.dB). The impedance was low, but as I've said many times on this thread, the Thiels have been amazingly happy being driven by my CJ amps, and even my Eico 14W side.
And the 2.7s despite being 87 dB efficient are dynamic and punchy as hell on the CJ amps.
My listening levels are conservative as well. But I have to say my listening levels have crept up these days because the Thiels are so smooth and fun to listen to, and can sound so "live."
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dhoff01...
Ya' know, describing the difference between the 3.5 and 3.6 models is something that I thought would be less than it really is, but the fact of the matter is that these are VERY different speakers. And far more different than moving "up" as I did from 2.0, 2.2, and 2.3 to the 3.5's. In those earlier examples the differences merely improved on everything that endeared Thiel to me from the get-go, accuracy, colorlessness, and most specifically, bass reproduction that felt like, sounded like bass without exaggeration.
I keep saying that I'm not a "bass" fiend, finding most speakers reproduction of it artificial and cartoonish - for lack of a better term. I'm also a pretty big fan of Magnepan, so my ears do favor midrange and highs to begin with.
I used a Pass Labs X150.5/BAT tubed pre setup for my 3.5's, and I am currently - no pun intended - using a BAT integrated. Either setup provided 150 watts into 8 ohms, 300 into 4 ohm loads which either Thiel is rated. To my ears the 3.6's just don't pressurize the room the way the 3.5's did. I'm also finding that the highs on the 3.6's seem diminished - odd considering that some people describe Thiels as "too bright."
I think that the 3.6's do require a more significant amount of power to truly shine. At levels louder than I normally listen at they do begin to strut their proverbial stuff. But, alas, my listening evil is very conservative and I believe the 3.5's just presented everything better at lower volumes than the 3.6's are wont to - again, my humble opinion.
Thiel improves ANY setup one may have. I've tossed a bevy of amps at them, Pass Labs, Threshold, Primare, Audio Research, Conrad Johnson, McIntosh...this site has drained my bank account a few times in the last 4 years.
I just put my 3.6's up for sale here on the site. Right now I'm downsizing, returning to tubes, looking at more efficient Thiels - if that's possible.
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Sorry unsound - for some reason I thought you had the 3.6s, not the 3.5s..
oblgny - just curious what you like better about the 3.5s then the 3.6s?
As for me, I'm 46. I started early when I mowed lawns to get a pair of Adcom separates and Canton speakers. Been hooked ever since..
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I’m freaking 60, very soon to turn 61, and since becoming a member on this lunatic site around 4 years ago I’ve burned through quite a few dollars on everything in the most futile of pursuits - perfection.
Obviously my chronological advance has not yet graced me with wisdom. I doubt it ever will, perhaps when I cease advancing I may find it.
Anyway - as close to a reasonable facsimile of perfection as one may get in this hobby is Thiel.
Speakers HAVE to cost more than these to be better - and from my limited “high end” auditions over the last few years the only other manufacturer that comes even close is Magnepan. I’m a fan of both. I simply can’t find sonic or financial reasons sufficient to consider blowing a few thousand bucks on other brands that might do one or even a couple of things “better”, especially when none in my $$ wheelhouse do everything as well as Thiel does.
IMHO Pass Labs and Thiel represent amazing sonics. I’m still trying to get my 3.6’s to shine as my 3.5’s did. I don’t think I’ll be getting there soon. I may be selling my 3.6’s to find another pair of 3.5’s. Something about those suckers that connects with me where the 3.6’s do not.
To each his own.
As long as it’s Thiel!
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65
While I've been into vinyl for 40 years , cassettes before that ,
I've only been " at it " seriously for the last 10 .
Learned a lot from a friend nkonor but never really applied it until
recently , the kids are grown ( still costing me with education expenses )
and I have reached an income level that I can spend on my hobby.
Wish I started a few years earlier , vinyl has gone up in price,
but at the same time equipment has improved by leaps and bounds.
For Black Friday I purchased acoustic panels from Acoustimac
to replace my homemade piecemeal setup , waiting for delivery !
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"I too have been at this for a few decades"
How old is everyone? There is a lot of experience here...
I am 58. |
Hi Dave, at the risk of appearing petty my 3.5’s have a sensitivity of 88 dB, and my room volume is probably a bit larger than most. High volume levels in music is most often short term so it’s not really at all uncomfortable or unsafe. Still your points have merit. Peace.
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Unsound,
No need to apologize! We just have some differing opinions, that’s all.
I don’t agree that 50 watts at 8 ohms (or 200 watts at 2 ohms) "really isn’t much at all." Your 3.6 speakers have a sensitivity rating of 86dbs. My 3.7s are rated at 90dbs. I’m sure you would agree that’s not an insignificant difference. So yes, maybe for you, in your room with your speakers and at your listening levels, 50 watts may be inadequate. My Accuphase has a digital meter, so I’m able to track just how many watts it’s peaking at depending on volume. Last time I checked, I was pushing over 105 dbs while keeping it under 100 watts and seated approximately 10 feet from my speakers. The 3.7s have been tested to drop under 3 ohms, so I know my Accuphase had much more to give. I don’t know what level you like to listen to, but that’s the equivalent sound to a jackhammer, which is enough to require earplugs for most sane people. In other words, in many ways we’re comparing apples to oranges, which may be why we have such different opinions.
I too have been at this for a few decades, and over that time I’ve come to the conclusion that, in my opinion, there’s too much reliance on wattage when determining whether an amp is sufficient enough. It’s certainly a relevant factor, but it isn’t always the most important one.
I know you’re not trying to tell or convince me otherwise. But there are a lot of readers on this sight who are looking for information, and just as your thoughts give great insight, I think there are valid counter opinions to the points you make. My intent was only to share some of them, just as you are. And I definitely agree we’re both likely to be more on the same page than we are not. Just different journeys, I suppose.
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^please delete the first "not" in the second sentence. sorry |
Hi David, please accept my apologies if I wasn't clear in my previous post. As for the Pass Lab users not using Pass Labs X amps instead of Pass Labs XA amps, every Thiel user I know that asked for guidance directly from Pass Labs has reported that Pass Labs has suggested that the X's would better serve Thiel's, with X250 and X350 with their various "." derivations most commonly recommended. Yes, there are truly pure Class A amps that can double down while maintaining Class A all the while (the early Mark Levinson ML2 w/ 25 Watts output certainly jumps to mind). I was merely trying to make a generalized comment to a larger audience that might mistakenly believe that all amps that tout Class A, don't necessarily do so all the time. If I recall correctly the Aragon mono's dropped all Class A output below 8 Ohms despite being touted as pure Class A. I remember another manufacturer of a very highly regarded amp admitted when pressed that despite claims to the contrary, that his amps weren't really Class A and argued that it made no difference except in the market place perception. The current Pass Labs XA's aren't really pure Class A, as they provide extra Class AB Watts when power demands require it. To their their credit they only advertise the true Class A output, but unfortunately some leave thinking that these (advertised) relatively low output amps prove that extra power isn't necessary and/or that Class A is more powerful than Class AB. Doubling the minimum recommended power is not my axiom. I've been at this for a few decades and it existed long before I became involved. Which is why I chose to use it previously. It is merely a long used generally accepted starting guide. I do believe that time has been kind to this guide, and though one might find less or more power might be required, and as difficult as it is find any specific guide I've found this one to be especially helpful as a general starting point. Heck, I can remember a time when 200 Watts was a broad brushed minimum recommendation for a serious system. That I think is an over simplification. As for an amp being able to handle a 2 Ohm load, keep in mind this is more of a prerequisite with some Thiel's (especially at lower power outputs) if one cares a whit for frequency and amplitude linearity. Despite what might appear to be technically true, the 200 Watts that your Accuphase puts out at 2 Ohms is really not so different than 50 Watts into 8 Ohms. Which really isn't all that much. Now in a smaller rooms playing music without much in the way of dynamic contrast such as much small choral works or chamber music 50 Watts might be more than enough, but for realistic symphonic music in larger rooms it might be lacking. There's a reason Jim Thiel allowed his loudspeakers to handle such big power inputs, Many other speaker manufactures discourage such power, as their speakers can't handle it. Sure one can get sounds out of most any Thiel with even the most low budget low powered amplifiers, but if one wants all that Thiel's are capable of, then more high quality Watts are needed. The halving of Class A output with impedance drops isn't really all that much of a problem. I just pointed it out because many attribute the sound of some amps due to their Class A output, when if fact it might be due to something else. Most of the time our speakers really don't require that much power. It's really only when things get loud do the speakers drink up copious Watts. But then the demands really ramp up. The thing is that as things get loud our ears aren't as sensitive to all the delicacies', that is until real distortions start to rear their ugliness. Personally I'd rather deal with an adequately powered Class AB amplifiers cross-over distortion than even the impending clipping of an underpowered Class A amp. Especially with solid state amplification. That is not to say I'm suggesting tubes with Thiel's, I don't. Though some do. I do think we're really much more in agreement than not. I was not specifically trying to tell you what to do, or what to use, but rather to offer a more generalized response to a larger audience for your rather good question. I used to often say that we all hear differently, but I now realize that it's probably more correct to say we all listen differently. I don't like to argue with success; if your happy, enjoy!
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Love the suggestions by the way. I've got lots of listening to do!
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Unsound,
I've ready many of your insightful posts on this thread, and while I agree with much of what you say, there are some assumptions that I do take some issue with.
First, I never meant to imply that others should use Class A. I merely was making an observation that I was surprised I was the only one. Yes, Class A amps are expensive, and yes, they run very hot. That I get. But not everyone on this thread has those issues. In fact, many here have touted Pass Labs, for example, but none seem to mention their XA amps. I found that curious, that's all.
Second, let's be clear about the Accuphase Class A amps. They are pure class A, and they do not halve when the impedance drops. They double down, all the way to 2 ohms (as I said in my post, mine goes to 200 watts at 2 ohms). I certainly agree those amps that are Class A A/B that halve as you suggest would be problematic with most Thiels. Thankfully my amp is not one of them.
Lastly, I really don't understand your axiom that one should always double the minimum amount of recommended wattage. One could equally suggest that the 100 minimum watt requirement is actually a conservative rating intended to ensure that those with lesser quality amps have enough power, Indeed, in my opinion, quality is truly the key here (which is also exactly what Jim Thiel said in his comments on the 3.7s). Saying you need a minimum of 200 watts when your room size, listening position and personal volume levels say otherwise really doesn't make much sense to me. I'm not trying to be argumentative here. I just think a quality amp that can handle a 2 ohm load in a medium size room does not need to approach the numbers that you suggest above.
Anyway, that's just my opinion. Bottom line, it's what your own two ears are happy with. As long as we're all enjoying the process and the music, that's all that matters.
Cheers,
David
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Unsound and fellow Thiel owners
Since you've read all the posts your probably dizzy from all the different subjects owners have brought up and don't remember all the recommendations and opinions , but since you asked about
Cowboy Junkies Whites Off Earth Now & Trinity Sessions
David Crosby If I Could Only Remember My Name
Chicago C.T.A
Jimi Hendrix Electric LadyLand
Duke Ellington HiFi Ellington Uptown
Rob
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unsound,
Excellent synopsis! I did not realize the class A bias would halve with impedance drop! We might want to think about amplifier distortion doubling as impedance halves also.
David -
Dave Matthews - nearly anything
Beach boys - Pet Sounds
Cake - Comfort Eagle
Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young - 4 way Street
The Doors - The Doors - and - Morrison Hotel
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David, welcome! In answer to your question as to why more Thiel users don't use pure Class A amplification: cost. And heat. To my ears, though typically advantageous, Class A is not the only criterion of the many upon which an amplifier's sound is determined. Jim Thiel's power recommendations were based upon standard solid state 8 Ohm ratings (with a level of quality expected), where it could be assumed that the power doubled down as impedance halved, not the impedance load of the specific speaker. Let's take your 3.7's https://www.stereophile.com/content/thiel-cs37-loudspeaker-specifications for example: with power recommendations given as 100 - 600 Watts per channel. Of course actual power needs will vary with rooms and desired volume levels amongst other things. But, for the sake of this post, let's fall on the old audiophile axiom that one should first consider starting with double the minimum power recommendation, which in the case of the 3.7's would be 200 Watts per channel. 200 Watts per channel of pure Class A amplification comes with some expense. Many high quality amps runs their bias towards Class A before sliding into Class AB. For example I run my 3.5's with their recommend power of 50 Watts minimum 250 Watts maximum (with hints of 300 Watts max). My Threshold amplifier is rated at 250 Watts (8 Ohm) per channel. The first 20% (50 Watts) biased towards Class A, then sliding into Class AB. Now into my 3.5's 4 Ohm minimum impedance; as the impedance is halved, the power doubles to 500 Watts per channel, but the Class A bias output is halved to 25 Watts per channel. This not only true for some Class AB amps. Some amps that claim pure Class A output really only do so in their standard 8 Ohm rating, but as the impedance halves and the power levels double; their Class A outputs halve as well, with the increased power correspondingly sliding into Class AB. https://www.stereophile.com/content/threshold-stasis-sa12e-power-amplifier-page-2 Of course some amps that tout pure Class A output, really don't. https://www.stereophile.com/content/krell-ksa-250-power-amplifier-when-class-class
We know that power consumption is not linear but rather exponential, and musical content can demand many, many times it's nominal power requirements. I haven't measured the bias output, but I suspect that much of the time my amp is behaving towards Class A bias. But now with the capability to cruise at 500 Watts per channel all day long (with short term headroom doubling that to 1000 Watts per channel). Now some might suggest that some of these power recommendations into actual impedances are outrageously high. To those may I remind them that with Thiel's and most typical speakers for that matter, that as impedances drop and power output increases that speaker sensitivity decreases correspondingly. So for general comparisons one might see the wisdom of the standard 8 Ohm ratings. Or not?
Would I prefer more Class A output? Probably, double that would be dandy. All 500 Watts per channel into 4 Ohms Class A? Sure! But, for my money I'd probably move up the line in speakers first, and settle on less Class A output with Thiel CS 5i's.
Thiel's weren't made as cost no object super premium products, though in their time the CS 5's were knocking on the door. Given the cost of pure Class A with enough power to drive most Thiel's, some of which approach 2 Ohms (and some with challenging phase angles), I think many might find the money might be better off spent elsewhere. For example with the 3.7's, and given enough room, I can easily see someone spending the money on Thiel's own subwoofers before committing the funds towards up to 600 Watts of pure Class A amplification (if you could find it). As a general guide (and with adequate funds available), perhaps a reasonable starting point might be amplification meeting the minimum power recommendation with Class A and the maximum into power recommendation sliding into Class AB. If one could afford to provide the maximum power recommendation all in pure Class A output into actual minimum impedance load, perhaps all the better. But be prepared to pay!
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Nice! Beck’s Sea Change is on my regular rotation. Haven’t checked out Morning Phase yet. The Suzanne Vega might also need to be added. And I’ll be searching Tidal for those last 4..
If you haven’t already, give Rickie Lee Jones’ Flying Cowboys a try. One of my favorites..
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David, I have tried a class A Krell 402 paired with an ARC Ref5 tubed preamp and my Thiel CS3.6s, but preferred my current ARC Ref5SE - Ref 150 combination. It was probably a synergy problem with preamp-amp, but instead of trying a different preamp, I went to a better tubed amp.
Here are a few albums that get regular play on my main system due to quality music and recording, IMO:
Beck - Morning Phase
Phish - Fuego
Eagles - Long Road Out Of Eden
Shelby Lynne - I Am Shelby Lynne
Wilco - The Whole Love
Suzanne Vega - Nine Objects of Desire
Robert Plant and Alison Krauss - Raising Sand
Rickie Lee Jones - Traffic From Paradise
SOME QUALITY DEEPER CUTS:
The Wailin' Jennys - 40 Days
Tift Merritt - Bramble Rose
The Greencards - Fascination
Kim Richey - Rise
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Thank You- David (dhoff01) for the kind words and thoughts regarding this thread. As you have read here and other audio forums, I am passionate about this brand of loudspeakers. Mr. Thiel did indeed create something special per his designs. I would like to think that there is a model / vintage for every music lover. Best of all, these speakers are easy to match with tubed or solid-state electronics. Additionally, the various classes A A/B and D fare well to the listener. For me, the real fun begins and ends with aftermarket cables and power cords. It is really incredible at the number of designers and manufacturers in this niche' aspect of our hobby. Moreover, fine tuning of one's system is key to obtain its full potential. The products are out there, entry level to full -on state of the art, covering all budgets. Yes, I do believe that you are the only contributor utilizing pure Class A currently. This is a good thing as it evolves the discussion at issue. Likewise, I enjoy Jazz and Rock music (and a little Classical for good measure). Thiel excels with these (3) genres and completely sold me on this brand during several auditions. Happy Listening!
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Now that I've read through this entire thread (!!) I feel it's probably okay for me to chime in a bit more about my 3.7 impressions and my set up. Let me start, however, by saying how great it is to read so many passionate posts about Thiel speakers and accompanying equipment. And as for the OP, I'm convinced you're either an amateur museum curator of Thiel 2.4se speakers or the ghost of Jim Thiel himself, just doing his best to keep the legacy alive. Regardless, I'm glad you reached out to me and clued me in on this great thread.
Regarding my own system, first let me say how surprised I was to see I'm apparently alone in my use of a pure Class A amp to drive my Thiels. Not that I'm opining one type is better than the other - I just find it interesting there aren't more owners out there with similar set ups. My Accuphase A50 is rated at 50/100/200 at 8/4/2 ohms, so it has oodles of current to deal with the 3.7s. Mated with my tube preamp (a Cary SLP-05), I'm in sonic bliss regardless of the situation. My music tastes vary from rock to jazz to classical to country - really, just about everything - and I've never found my system wanting. In terms of describing the sound, I think the best description I can give is how it makes me feel when I listen to something. For example, while reading this thread I was playing Thelonious Monk's "Solo" on vinyl, and I could literally feel him banging on the keys as if he were punching each of them with his fingertips. The music from these speakers just grab you without ever wanting to let go. Like most of you, I've listened to many speakers, but to me these are the first "box" speakers I've heard that literally almost disappear. As someone else pointed out, it's similar to what I experienced when listening to Maggies, but with (IMO) better soundstage and speed. Simply put, it's just a helluvah speaker.
There's a lot of talk about cabling here. I do believe it makes a difference, but to me it's in the fractions and not whole percentages. That being said, I'm not as bold as prof - I run my system fully balanced using cables from Acoustic Zen and Wireworld.
I also use a subwoofer. It may not be necessary for 90% of the music I listen to, but there are occasions when I'm glad it's there. My sub is a REL Stentor III with the crossover set to 32hz. I use REL's speakon cable which is directly connected to my amp's speaker terminals. Is it perfectly seamless? All I can say is nobody has ever been able to tell that it's on, so I'll take that as a sign that it's properly dialed in.
Last thing I'd like to add is how great it would be to hear more about what people are listening to on their Thiels. As much as I love to geek out on the audiophile stuff (and trust me, I do), I also love being turned on to new artists or albums that others have discovered. So when you're talking about your Thiels, please try to throw in a word or two about what you're currently playing. Just my two cents, of course..
Cheers,
David
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Good to see you- robinbarbour nice catch on the eBay listing. Happy Listening! |
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prof,
I must say I completely agree with you on cabling vs. room treatment and placement. There is so much to be had simply by moving furniture or changing angle/placement of speakers. You can dial in exactly what you want from your system... |
Welcome! dhoff01-
we all look forward in reading about your years in Audio. Everyone has a story to tell. The CS 3.7 in Les Paul finish is stunning and beautiful. Good to have you aboard. Happy Listening! |
New owner, 1st post.
I've been enjoying my 3.7s immensely. Always been a Thiel fan, and the 3.7s were near the top of my want list for awhile. Found a pair of Les Paul's a few months ago and just couldn't resist. Best upgrade to my system in quite some time.
Anyways, thanks to jafant for turning me on to this thread. Still combing through it, but looking forward to hearing more from other Thiel owners. The company may not be the same, but its clear from this thread that Jim Thiel's legacy is as strong as ever..
Happy listening,
David |
Much Thanks! prof.
No, not an employee of Walmart, Inc. I would not mind owning some of the company's older holdings though.
Happy Listening!
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jafant,
I appreciate your enthusiasm.
Looking at your last string of posts: I know the original comment was deleted, but you have to admit that question as to whether you are a Walmart Greeter in your spare time was pretty funny :-)
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Hope you guys had a fun and music -filled holiday weekend.
Happy Listening!
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Good to see you- prof.
Happy Listening!
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Bill 10907,
Since you welcome all opinions...here’s mine :-)
Don’t rely on cables as an attempt to tone control. Aside from the dubious claims that they will make much difference in the first place, if cable manufacturers are changing the sound, then they are designing the cable to depart from neutral. Why roll the dice like that?
You could simply purchase cables by Belden or Canare (or the like) from, say, Blue Jeans cable. They are pro-grade cables, by companies that actually supply measurements, so you know you are getting competently designed cables not meant to alter the signal or sound. From that starting point you can know it’s not the cable, save significant money by not playing the audiophile cables-sweepstakes, and concentrate funds or attention to where differences will matter more, especially the interaction of the speaker/room. Placement and angling, not to mention some room treatment if necessary, will render differences FAR bigger than any (competently) designed cable.
I can make my Thiel 3.7s or 2.7s sound thinnish and bright if I really toe them in, or deep, smooth and lush simply by toeing them out. In fact I’m constantly amazed how much sonic difference the slightest adjustment of speaker position or toe in makes (which is expected by acoustic theory). I can make the sound dense, punchy and exciting by pushing the speakers back some more, or enveloping and ethereal by moving closer to nearfield. Or a mix in between. These are levels of sonic difference no cable can give you.
I know a lot of audiophiles don’t want to hear this type of advise; we want everything to make a difference so we are "in control" and the idea of tweaking with cables appeals to this. And the manufacturers will happily take your money by preying on this audiophile nervosa. But...there are other ways.
I just bought a beautiful new turntable that I would not have been able to afford if I’d allocated the portion of funds to high end cables that many audiophiles presume to be necessary.
Now...back to expensive cable recommendations from others....;-)
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Thanks! for sharing- vair68robert Happy Listening! |
Fred's Sound of Music in Portland Oregon
has a pair of CS3.6s for sale $899.95 as is ,
and a pair of CS2.2s for $999.95.
(503) 234-5341 |
zkga
Yes do contact Rob at Thiel , you have 2 options ,
look at images on Goggle , one is the spike used on the 3.7 and 2.4se
the other is the standard spike, if you are going thru carpet
I recommend the ones used on the 3.7s .
I purchased these and used the locking nut from my original
standard spikes on my 2.7s.
If you don't have locking nuts ask him about that .
Bill 10907
I too use Cardas thru-out, I have the Neutral Reference
interconnects and speaker cables and am very pleased with the sound,
You might want to try the Cardas Hex-link speaker cables
you might also try room treatment first.
Rob
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zkga,
think about contacting Mr. Rob Gillum at Thiel customer service in Lexington KY. If I run across a set I will contact you. Keep us posted.
Happy Listening!
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Good to see you- bill10907
you have a very good ear- the Cardas Golden Cross is notoriously warm.
Still, it is an iconic cable to this day and used in many of the Audio press' systems. I have heard the Cardas Clear, Clear Beyond. While not as warm as these older models, will continue to give the listener the company's signature sound (warmth and detail). Maybe one of the guys here can chime in to your query.
Happy Listening! |
Speaker cable question for Thiel lovers. My speaker cables are Cardas Golden Cross. Interconnects are Cardas Clear. I bought the Golden Cross cables back in the day when I could not afford the electronics needed to tame my Thiel 3.6 highs. Might also have been room problem, placement, etc. Now I have the electronics and I now feel I might be losing something with this VERY WARM speaker cable. Associated equipment is ARC REF 3 Pre, ARC PH8 phonopre, Classe CA-2200 amp, Clearaudio Performance SE with Stradivari V2.
All opinions are appreciated, including recommendations. Thanks again.
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Hey Guys,
any ideas on where I can find a set of spikes for my 2 2's ?
Best,
Greg |
Good to see you- zkga and prof
take your time and move the speakers around your listening space (if you can based on configuration/design). Then dial -in to a more specific taste in presentation. And yes, sonic changes can occur with the simplest of movements. Keep me posted on your progress.
Happy Listening!
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zkga,
Glad it worked out for you. Your experience is the type of lesson many audiophiles could benefit from; you'll get far more from the free tweak of playing with speaker placement than from spending money playing cable roulette. (And of course addressing room acoustics if necessary - which may not be free depending on the acoustic solution, but is likely to still be less expensive than a lot of audiophiles spend on cables).
I'm constantly amazed at how much sonic change can occur moving or angling a speaker by inches - sometimes even less. But, that's the physics of acoustics for you.
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Basics! sometimes I forget the simplest things. I asked Jafant earlier about cabling for a pair of 2 2's I just picked up. They just didn't seem as quick in the lower registers as the 1.5's they just replaced.. Well in my excitement of setting up the 2 2's I quickly put two pair of speakers smack dab in the right front corner of the room, the 1.5's and an old pair of ported PSB 5T's ..... talk about some excessive room treatment! The unnecessary bass traps were immediately re located to the basement and the 2 2's now sound the way all good Thiels do! These sound very easy to drive compared to other models I've listened to .... Still on the hunt for 3.6's but very happy until then.
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Good to see you again- vair68robert,
another +vote for hugging our beloved Thiel speakers. It took 2 years for me to find my pair from the original audition date to sale date.
Great stories guys.
Happy Listening!
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Prof
I glad to hear you Hugged your Thiels after cheating in them
by listening to the Paradigms.
Have you been able dial in the 2.7's yet ?
Stevecham
Yes I live in Eugene, moved here from Chicago 12 years ago where
I frequented Reckless Records on N. Broadway .
Where's the other Finest record store ?
I see that you have CS6's , I looked and they are beautiful .
Where in S OR do you reside ?
I am just exploring Rush because Saffron_boots ( Warren ) said he used one of their songs to evaluate speakers,
since I didn't have any Rush It got me motivated to explore and expand my Rock collection which basically stops about the time when
ELP came out with Works and Pink Floyd with Animals .
I saw then both at Soldiers Field Chicago .
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Veterans-
Thank You For Your Service. America would not enjoy Liberty nor Freedom
without your Heroic efforts.
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No problem- zkga
on the few occasions that I have heard a Cardas cable, it is too warm for my taste. This was on tubed and solid state gear. The Golden Reference is an iconic IC used by many writers of the Audio press, so referencing it will not be an issue.
Happy Listening!
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Thank you for the reply Jafant! you don't need to do my homework for me though!
I'll dig into it. I have Anticable 2.0 that have been very good on the 1.5's but something in my combo (cardas golden ref balanced IC's) isnt working quite as well on the 2 2's They seem a bit dark on lower midrange and slightly loose on the bass. amp is a Coda pushing 400 into 8 and 800 into 4ohm loads |
