Thiel Owners
Not long winded at all - Dan. In fact, very informative and your findings are spot on along w/ mine regarding the Vandy Quattro. I did not care for the Treo model either? During my audition period I did like the 3A Signature, still, the Thiel CS 2.4 was better, more realistic in musical timbre. I look forward in reading more of your contributions to this group. Happy Listening! |
dancastagna... Right now I’m selling off a pair of Vandy 3A Sigs that I picked up just a few months ago. You can’t go wrong with Vandersteen in general, in many ways they are THIS close to Thiels but...they just ain’t. The bass reproduction strikes me as honest an unforgiving as Thiel, but methinks the Thiel bests Vandy in the mids and highs. Perhaps by just a hair or two, but my humble, sixty-one year old ears love the articulate treble that Thiel does so damn well. I’m selling the Vandies because of reasons other and apart from my ridiculous audiot life; when I’m able to return Thiel will top my list - hopefully 3.5’s because sizewise/roomwise/pricewise they simply kill. I will BEGIN with Thiel and build around Thiel. Hopefully with yet another Pass Labs amp...wotta match! I’ve said before that buying used Thiel speakers is an investment, not just a purchase. Now with Rob taking care of us zealots my sentiment rings even more true. Thiel rules and Thiel LIVES! |
I talked to him in person yesterday. Alive and well. Double check his phone number and email address it has changed recently. I had both of my equalizers repaired this past year and it made a big difference. With every penny but it made me start looking at alternatives in case he could not repair it. Fortunately, he still had some donor parts |
Dinopau Sorry here is robs contact info Coherent Source Service 763 Newtown Pike Ste. 130 Lexington, KY 40511 859-554-9790 rob@coherentsourceservice.com You are in good hands he is busy Getting my speakers ready!! sorry |
Hi Everyone!! I joined the AVS forum and posted there but it seems like all the Thiel Heads are here in numbers :) I need some feed back before I make a large mistake and might have made one all ready but you tell me. I am 52 yro and 4 months ago heard the first Audiophile system and can believe I have been under a rock for so looong! I'm hooked hard, so like many of you I started to READ and Read, was to many hours hear on Audiogon. Was very close to purchasing KEF Ref series 2ch/HT then got drank the Vandersteen kool-aid after hearing Quarto & 7's I have quotes from three Vandersteen dealers and was very very close. Then two months ago I told myself this is insane! go get a simple system so i could start playing around with Tidal and other Hi-res sources while i READ MORE I could atleast listen to some music finally! So I marched into Stereo Unlimited and was going to buy a Vandy 3 sig or next model up to use with a SIMPLE Peachtree Nova 300 that had good reviews and was guilt free if i was only going to use for short time. Well sitting there was a pair of Thiel CS 2.7's I ended up buying them a WOW,,,,, I understand Thiels are hard to run, etc etc,,, but this Peachtree is a match!! sounded better than the Vandy Quarto being run with monster VTL mono tubes and VTL pre amp, After 2 months of listening and reading I went on a Thiel hunt, My goal is to have in one room a 2ch/HT ALL Thiel w/atmos and in another room just two channel. For the two channel room I bought CS 3.7 and will run with Peachtree I have already. In other room I bought MCs 1' for center. CS 1.7 for rears, 4 Power point 1.2 for atmos and two SS2 theil subs and will use the CS 2.7's that started this rampage. Sorry for long winded intro post. So the first question is what HT processor and amps to run it? Does any one have first hand running Mcintosh with Thiel? I could only find two thiel subs would you run both in HT/2ch and buy a Rel for 2ch 3.7 room or split one sub in each system? was also going to ad a Bluesound streamer to both systems so I can run 2ch on two systems at once for whole home coverage. Thank you!! and nice to meet the group. Dan |
Hello everybody, I live in Italy and own a pair of CS3.5. When I read that Mr. Gillum was repairing Thiel speakers, I shipped the CS3.5 bass equalizer for him to restore. He finally received it last May, 5th and by mail told me it would take a couple of days to check it. Not receiving any reply within a reasonable time I decided to email back two days ago with no luck. So I called many times during normal working hrs in KY and again only answering machine. So today I sent a email to Mr. Tom Thiel, Thiel's former co-founder and to this forum. Maybe Mr Gillum is just very busy, and I truly hope so, that he is unable to reply and still had no time to get back with me, or he lost my email, but if somebody can tell me how to contact him I would appreciate. Thank you Dino |
Yes, it was I who preferred the 3.5 over the 3.6 for a number of quite personal reasons. (Ain’t they all?) Like most folks would logically assume, moving up the Thiel line means mo’ better everything, correct? While there was absolutely nothing to fault the 3.6’s for, the sonic difference between the two was, to my ears, REMARKABLY different. Only when I played my music at higher volume than I normally do did the 3.6 strut it’s “Thieliness”. And many of us here know already how much I love the Thiel sonics. Too bright? My butt! While I am not qualified to offer an opinion based on the technical specifications differentiating the two, my humble ears preferred the 3.5’s - everything was just THERE immediately at modest level, while the 3.6 only started to shine at a higher listening level. Which is no knock on the sonics of the 3.6. I got mine for $1600 shipped from Chicago - which is a truly “stupid” price to pay for speakers of Thiel quality. The duration and number of posts in this thread alone is pretty damn amazing. It’s by far and away one the most civil and informational threads on the site. |
Tom, very interesting! Could you describe more about your gears to run cs 2 2s and 1.5s? And how to position them (distance against walls and each other)? Thank you^_^! I always think about two identical pairs for back-to-back and not know it's ok with different models. If I use 7.2 and 3.7s, will they match each other? |
Thanks Prof, really appreciated. I checked with Rob today and he has sold a lot of his inventory and all his 3.7 were reserved. He could not account for my measurements but indicated that he could rebuild all the drivers, XO and they would be good to go for about 1K each. I have not heard any evidence of any drivers malfunctioning so I'll first double check my measurements and let him to do troubleshooting. Unsound, did you notice a notable difference after the rebuilding? Well, will take it one step at the time. |
to reiterate the point that Prof made, i recently listened to a pair of 29K Magicos driven by very nice VTL tube amps. was it great? absolutely. was it better? yes as it was more articulate and had a overall cleaner sound. however, when i came home and played my PS Audio system with 3.7's, i was totally happy. the fact that a 10 year old design could hold its on with a current SOTA speaker at over twice the price says something about the genius of Jim Thiel and his design team. |
I've never heard the Thiel 3.5s (that I recall) but used to listen to the 3.6s here and there, though many years ago. So you have to take any comparison I'd make with a big grain of salt. That said, I also lived with the big Thiel CS6 speakers for a while too, so I have a pretty good bead on the Thiel house sound in general, I think, Whenever I listened to the 3.6s "back in the day" my impression was always consistent: a sense of accuracy, in terms of tonality, soundstaging, imaging and a sense of life - great transient quality and an overall sense of control. There was a real confidence, a sensation of "hearing the recording for what it is." The slight knock on the 3.6s was, as many have said before, to my ears a teetering toward brightness and a tad bit of hardness. Just a tiny bit of a "ruthless" quality. Not as bad as that sounds, but just tipping a bit in that direction. The other is a slightly "reductive" quality that I tended to hear in Thiel speakers. The density of the imaging had the great result of palpability, but it seemed the Thiels could squeeze the sound just a bit too tight, with a signature that to my ear could seem to slightly remove the amount of body and heft of the sound of voices and instruments. (The smaller woodwinds, for instance, could become fairly thin sounding). The CS6 speakers I had, while sounding huge overall and full from the upper bass down, also had this slightly reductive quality. Though I found them not bright at all, and not in to the ruthless territory so much. They sounded gorgeous with my CJ tube amps. The difference I find with the last flagship 3.7 (and to a degree the 2.7) is that I do not find any of this reductive quality. Voices and instruments sound smooth, big, even and as lush as one could want. If you have an acoustic guitar recorded up close it is BIG and full. The sense of image sizing and soundstaging goes beyond any Thiel I had heard before. And the tonal balance seems completely smooth - missing the slight hollowing sensation I could occasionally hear in previous Thiels. And they have a more open and delicate way with fine detail. While giving you that aliveness, snap and image density and specificity that Thiel is known for. So to my ears the 3.7s take the Thiel sound and simply refine it. As I've pointed out in my other, long speaker audition thread, despite listening to many of the best contenders now available, I did not find any that seemed to do it all as well as the 3.7s. |
Thielrules, your 3.5 performance is not normal. Perhaps Rob might supply guidance. As you might surmise, I have been looking closely at the classic models to determine where to best expend resources for upgrades. A sad truth is that the 3.5 is old. Those drivers were modified commercial units and are no longer available. The tweeters and midranges are not rebuildable, but I believe Rob can rebuild the woofers. The 3.5 dates from 1988, so early serial numbers are approaching end-of-service-life for the electrolytic caps in the EQ and XO. Those are replaceable. After considerable deliberation I have decided to not develop an upgrade kit for the 3.5. There are too many disqualifying factors recommending against spending significant money there. However, Rob at Coherent Source Service can help you keep them in service in stock or enhanced stock form. |
First for prof, I wasted a perfectly good day reviewing your thread involving your speaker journey. Fantastic, and I greatly admire your ability to discern and articulate what you hear. Wonder if you could do the same for some of the Thiel speakers, in particular comparing the 3.5, 3.6 and 3.7 in this thread. I believe that you may be able to clarify what the differences are and help me justify keeping my speakers or upgrade. Tried to create a playlist on Tidal with some of your reference material, but need to trim it down a little. Helped me better appreciate what you were pointing out. I did some testing with Room Equalizer Wizard and the Thiel and DBX equalizers. Only just scratched the surface, not really understanding all the variables at play. Made my meaurements from the listening position and not in close proximity to the speakers, so room factors were present, although constant for all measurements. Used pink noise track as source and did RTA checks on different settings. Discovered that the Thiel equalizer is not working properly in the 20 HZ setting, even though Rob fixed it last year. It may be the switch as the next day I was able to determine that the 40 HZ setting had less bass in comparison. The more I read, the more complex it all is and an equalizer can only do a small contribution. The comparison with DBX did not reveal any clear improvement. The DBX has a balanced output (as well as unbalanced) and needed more gain to match the unbalanced output from the Thiel equalizer to sound equally loud on the bryston amp. Here were some conclusion that I hate to draw:Maybe it is the age of my speaker showing but they certainly were not able to reproduce anything within 3db from 20-20K. Below 40 HZ there was more than 10 db drop and likewise on the 14K side. Ignorance is bliss. |
Hi guys, I'm from Italy and newbie here, happy to join to this vaste Thiel's enthusiast community. I just bought my first pair of Thiel loudspeakers , the wonderful cs3.6, found them very well maintained after all these years. These artworks are currently driven by a McCormack TLC-1 pre amp and the amazing McCormack DNA-2 Deluxe (bought a week later than Thiels), what to say.....I feel absolute happiness, still to early to give an appropriate and deep review but for sure I'm getting the best sound since ever. To me nowadays is very hard to find better sounding loudspeakers system even compared to the same original retail price, sad to know how the Thiel's story ended, Jim will remain in our hearts forever, for sure, simply a genius with our same passion: music at its best! Let me spend also some words of admiration to Steve McCormack having made and still doing such a pieces of electronics. I'll never sell both Thiel and McCormack components, for sure. Greetings from Italy, Silvano |
Pau Ferro (Amberwood / Morado) is an excellent-sounding wood. My main business is supplying tonewood to guitarmakers. We introduced Morado to that world in the mid 90s and it is considered by many to be the sonically-preferred fingerboard stock, as well as highly regarded for acoustic guitar body wood. Like Maple, it has virtually no open pores and is a joy to finish. Be careful, about 15% of people exhibit a poison-ivy-like reaction to the dust. Wear gloves and a mask when working it. |
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Very interesting information, tomthiel, thank you for the science/history lesson. I've always loved the nice woods that make up the Thiel cabinets, particularly in the x.7s where they actually curve on the side and inward towards the front of the speaker--simply breathtaking! My 2.7s are definitely the darker, redder version of the Morado whereas the finish on the PCSs is just slightly lighter and less red. Perhaps UV exposure has caused the change in color, causing them to be different? (The PCS are older and I purchased them second hand.) |
Jab, your lumber dealer will call the wood Pau Ferro, Bolivian Rosewood or Santos Rosewood. You may find some light colored boards, but the upland variety is more rare. You can bleach the darker wood to match your Amberwood. Prof, Morado can be quite dark naturally. Thiel generally stained to match a standard sample, so some cabinets may be natural or some stained at varying levels of coverage to match the target. |
tomthiel, Thanks! That explains why the grain pattern of the Morado I have is so similar to the Amberwood finish. But just to be clear: Do you mean the dark red color of the Morado wood is natural? I'd always presumed the speaker started out with a lighter color and some type of red stain was added to give the red color. |
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Here's a little wood trip for those sort of folks. There is a wood in Bolivia of two principal species, Machaerium schleroxylon or acutifolium, the former upland and the latter lowland. Since mid twentieth century the Germans have exported it to Europe as Santos Rosewood, named for a port in Southeast Brazil as its "source". Lots of intrigue there, but not today. The Danish "Rosewood" finish has been this wood since the beginning. Not a Dalbergia (rosewood species) it acts and looks a lot like rosewood. In the 1980s I developed a direct Bolivian source including a substantial plantation project with the Chiquitano Natives. They distinguished between the upland and lowland types and I applied the names "Amberwood" to the lighter colored, more contrasty upland type and "Morado" to the darker, more purple, homogenous lowland type. Note that they are both photo-sensitive and lighten toward amber with exposure to ultraviolet. The photo tagged above seems to have a fairly dark stain, which looks like the "Dark Cherry" color, but Morado and Cherry are structurally different. Amberwood generally has no stain. |
hi Prof, My 2.7s are the exact same color. The original shipping box shows the finish as "Morado" but in reality it is Morado Rosewood, and looks just as you describe and matches the image you referenced. My PCS, while also in a "Morado" finish, is not rosewood, so it has less of a reddish color and is more brown. In natural sunlight, you can see the difference between the two finishes, but with my recessed lights at night, the Morado finishes look very similar. Now that I know that your 3.7s are in the same finish as my 2.7s, I know they would fit nicely in my system. Please consider me when you decide to sell your speakers: batman.fan.ebay@gmail.com |
hi Jafant, Besides the Bryston amps, I have a very modest system that was originally tailored for home theater. It currently consists of Anthem AVM20 as a pre-amp processor. For source, I have a Sony SCD-XA9000ES SACD for 2-channel but a cheap Sony DVD player, the model number of which I don't know. Both the Anthem and SACD player have been giving me electrical problems (not turning on a few occasionally), so I've been thinking about getting a Bryston BDA-3 to be used as an external DAC or possibly getting the Anthem AVM60 to upgrade my surround sound processing, either of which I would use the cheap Sony DVD player as a transport until I find the funds to upgrade that. I've got Straightwire between the Anthem and Bryston amps, with Kimber Kable for the rest of the interconnects, and generic 10awg copper speaker cable I think I got from Blue Jeans. |
hi Prof, thank you so much. great reading. i think the better our systems get, the more tiny changes are audible. why swap power cords if your speakers are Bose or something like that. i use a Lafuma reclining chair as it is not thick and does not seem to mess with the sound too much like my leather couch does. i like to recline and so i am laying back when listening which is why my ear is lower than most. i find that when i go other homes, or to dealers, that i end up sitting lower and closer than anyone else. what device are you using that you mentioned moving around a bit. |
ronkent, The speakers are so easy to move around on my rug (one thing nice about not using spikes) that I often fool around with different listening positions. I may settle on one for a week, or a month, or many months, then move them around. Right now I have my 2.7s a bit further from my ears than I thought - 7.4' - probably because they are spread out a bit more - 8.4' from the inside of each speaker. Due to the wider spread, I have them toed in a bit to maintain some sparkle and image focus. When in a narrower setting, I tend to have little to no toe-in. I also find listener height can alter the sound a bit, but much less so on the Thiel's concentric driver arrangement vs a lot of other speakers (sound gets a bit more "plummy" rounded and warm with a lower seating height. I've slightly angled my 2.7s downward to account for a bit of this). I'm really a nut about tone and timbre and it's easily diminished by room acoustics and speaker/listener positioning. I want warmth, roundness of tone, but with a realistic inviting sparkle as well. To that end I find imaging, soundstaging and tone are almost always best for me when there is nothing behind my head - e.g. my sofa cushion comes up to my shoulders but no further. Leaning my head back in to the sofa pillows, more reclined, while comfy, also changes the sound due to the reflections - makes it a bit more whitened and lively and spread out. Which actually can be fun sometimes. I've looked for pillows to lean my head on that don't alter the sound in an unappealing way, but there are no "neutral" pillows because it's going to change the sound reflections around my head. Physics is physics. That said, I just discovered that one of the small, narrow arm-rest sized pillows on my sofa, which is only the width of my head, actually works quite well to lean on. Doesn't destroy soundstaging and imaging - though alters things a little. Tone gets a bit more zing and aliveness, lightens up a bit, and a bit more focus. So for instance a cow-bell or wood block hit will actually sound more lively and immediate. And the tone doesn't "whiten" so much as leaning against a big pillow, but goes a bit more into the "amber" territory (I tend to perceive sound in colors this way). Which I quite like. Further...while on the subject of acoustics, I keep meaning to make a little thread about diffusors. A single small diffusor that I bought a while back has proven really fascinating to play with - the way it can alter and dial in the sound so minutely via any number of positions in the room. Placed right beside the speaker, I get a more alive sound, but also a bit more blanched in tone. Placed just beside and behind the speaker and I get sonic images snapping even more together, and sounding a bit more dense and lively, but without loosing much of the organic roundness of the presentation. Really fun. Sorry...way more than you asked for. |
