Thiel Owners

Good to see you  - tomthielHappy Listening!

Much Thanks! dhoff01Happy Listening!

Jon, your experience coincides with mine and many, many more in my experience. The fact that the amp doesn't double into 4 ohms says that it is out of power as current demand increases. Thiel speakers have low impedance for high current appetite , especially in the bass. So, doubling your available current in the bass is germane. Your blown midrange was almost certainly caused by distortion which heated the midrange voice coil beyond its limits.

As an aside, the only driver failures I have seen have been burned voice coils, caused by overheating, caused by distortion. In all the years of heavy-duty, overnight, stress and show conditions, I am not aware of ever "blowing" a Thiel driver. We had big amps with high current delivery power supplies.

My experience with 3.7s and amps has been that when I got them I had a single Cambridge 840w.  This is rated at 200 watts into 8 ohms, 300 watts into 4 ohms.  It's not a monster amp but not tiny either.  It worked ok but I did blow a midrange, not sure if it was due to clipping or not but it seems likely.  Then I got another identical amp and ran them bridged mono for 600 or so watts into 4 ohms and I've been running them that way ever since.  When I added the second amp I was surprised at how big of a difference it made in the bass.  The definition was better even at moderate volumes. 

Guys do you think it would be possible to drive properly my 3.7s with a pair of KR Audio Kronzilla DX monoblocks ?I'm looking at tube alternatives for my new build, another choice would be the VAC Signature IQ200 monos.

batmanfan,

Thanks for posting that info form Gary Dayton.  That makes some sense of why I hear the 3.7s as a bit more open and detailed vs the 2.7.

The 3.7 also floats instruments better around the speakers when they are panned harder left or right, whereas they tend to come more from the speaker on the 2.7, so I get a bit more of a "U" shaped soundstage from the 2.7s vs the 3.7s.

I had wondered if the 2.7s used aluminum for the baffle and now I know it does not.

The Magico A3s speakers I recently auditioned also seemed to disappear better and float instruments nearby the speaker locations, and their cabinets are made of inert metal, so that makes some sense. 

a PS Audio BHK/Thiel combo are also a great match

Good to see you - batmanfan
A Bryston/Thiel combo are sonic matches. Careful cabling selection and you will be musically rewarded. Have fun, enjoy the journey.
Happy Listening!

Good to see you again - dhoff01hope you are well and gearing up for Summer. I am looking forward in reading more contributions from you soon.Happy Listening!

I wanted to share some comments from Gary Dayton, who worked for Thiel for 10 years, and is now at Bryston, and here is what he said:

"CS2.7s are very similar to CS3.7s. They don’t have quite the clarity because of the wood baffle vs. aluminum baffle and top. They have a touch more bass though perhaps not as extended.
"My time as service manager for THIEL taught me that the vast majority of people damage their loudspeakers with underpowered amplifiers because they drive them into clipping which sends high amounts of high frequency signal to the speakers that can least handle it - midranges and tweeters. Those drivers then get burned voice coils. Put another way, listening at levels beyond what the speakers can handle is what damages them regardless of power."

Combine this with the fact that my 2.7s has a low-to-average efficiency rating of 87db led me to get the 1000watt monoblocks. I’ve never looked back.

By the way, do you guys remember this beauty, the Thiel MCS1.2?
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/long-awaited-thiel-center

Gary said he did the basic design you see there, but the sample wasn’t even playable. He said "the plan was ultimately to use a version of the CS1.7 woofers and the CS3.7s coax. An aluminum baffle cast like the SCS4 baffle in a bent plywood cabinet."

Unfortunately, the plans were shelved after the new owners changed direction, and he suspects the sample is probably in a dump somewhere. I would have loved to have gotten my hands on it, and work with others here to get it in working order!

I would certainly like to hear if anyone has paired their Thiels with a Datasat processor as well, and what they thought of the sound.

Hi dancastagna,

I’m afraid there are just too many options, combinations and permutations of pre/processors and amps for you to have a definitive, singular solution. Tom’s advice will certainly help narrow the field, but in the end, I think you will need to audition as best you can the variety of amps and processors to see which one best suits your taste in music and movies.

When I decided to move up from the Anthems, I found that I preferred the more upfront presentation of the Brystons compared to the laid back attitude of the McIntoshes. And there is enough power and synergy from the amps that the music created with the Bryston/Thiel combo just sounds great to me despite the fact that the 28B amps don’t double down from 8ohm to 4ohm. There have been several recommendation from members here as to brands with which you can begin your search. While this can be a huge inconvenience, I find that the journey can be part of the fun...at least before you have to part ways with your hard-earned money!

jafant - just sent you a reply.

Dan - thanks for the note.  I use an Accuphase A50 amp, a Cary SLP-05 pre, an Ayre P5xe phono pre, a VPI Aries II with a Shelter cartidge and an Ayre qb9 DSD dac. Kind of an eclectic mix, but it works for me :)

Hi Dhoff01, I noticed on AVS that you have in your procession what I believe to be Audiophile Nirvana. The CS 3.7 Gibson signed by no one other than Les Paul himself.  Congrats, what do you run them with?  

Has any one heard anything on Datasat? AV processor and amps? is it a match for all Thiel HT?

Dan 

dhoff01
I have a query about Accuphase power amps. Check your email (PM) here.
Happy Listening!

Dan, if the MacIntosh amps deliver the same value into the three loads, the design is power-supply-current limited and will not do a good job. I have no current (ugh) knowledge of your best choices. Members here are quite well informed about best offerings. I have used Krell, Pass/Threshold, Ayre, Levinson, Conrad-Johnson and old (DR6 & 9) Classe. I have never heard a class D amp that I liked with Thiel. Whoever knows something definitive please speak up.

tomthielMany Thanks! for the excellent commentary of your life as a young Man.No, I have not ridden a wild horse. A Quarter horse, yes. Beautiful creatures indeed. I own many books on the Grateful Dead and in their early days,  lived on a commune ranch as well. Oh the stories and high times! Nothing was left to the imagination. Those guys had folkie aspirations combined with living in a hippie/counter-culture realm.
Happy Listening!

Thank You - Guys for keeping the discussions lively and engaging. There seems to be a few of you trying to sell an extra pair of speakers (CS2.7 and CS3.7 models). I concur, in that, these specific models fly under the radar from main street. Each loudspeaker is a musical treasure for sure. Each model is for historical significance as well. Vintage all of the way up to the CS 3.7, something for everyone's taste.Happy Listening!

So Tom I was just applying your formula to a few amps to see which ones would be much higher ration from 8 ohms to 4 ohms and noticed the Mcintosh was 1 to 1 meaning they were the same wpc output for 8 4 or 2. what are your top few choices for thiel?  Right now still need ALL electronics for 2ch/HT  line up is CS 2.7 left right mains, MCS1 for center, CS 1.7 for rears and 4 Thiel Power plane 1.2's and Two SS2 subs. I have to get this right,,,, way to much to get to this point.  While i'm asking about amps my goal is to end up with a system that excels at 2ch with a HT with atmos. Have all the speakers.  THANK YOU Dan

Oblgny, do you have Thiel CS3.5 bass equalizer properly working? If so how much are you asking? I am not familiar with the policy of this forum so please let me know if we have to talk separately. 
Jafant and all, thank you for your support, today I sent another mail to Mr Gillum asking if he can keep my eq and take all the time of this world to fix it. Fingers crossed....
Cheers

how does the ATI 6000 work? it's 350 @ 8 and 475@ 4   Or there class D monster at 650@8 1000@4  

In the long run, I believe the 2.7 (and 1.7) will become collectors' items. They were made in Lexington after Jim's death and before the sale, using old-Thiel type parts (high purity inductors, PP caps with PS bypasses, etc. on point to point boards. The 2.7 uses the 3.7 coax with a smaller woofer for a hypothetically "easier" crossover than the 3.7. I suspect that further tweaking, such as replacing the big electrolytics with PPs might make the 2.7 one for history.

It seems a lot of people have old Classe amps sitting around.  I've got a pair of CA200s from 1996 that haven't been used in 5+ years.  They developed intermittent crackling sounds that I couldn't get fixed.  I replaced them with a pair of Cambridge 840s that I run bridged mono.  They've been good.  I find them more neutral than the Classe and they seem to have plenty of power, at least for my purposes.  Cambridge tends to be high performance/marginal quality from what I've read but these amps have worked perfectly since I've had them.  We'll see how long they last.  

I'm not surprised that it's tough to sell the 2.7s.  I decided a long time ago that most "audiophiles" don't actually care that much about absolute sound quality.  It's a factor but looks, novelty, preferred colorations, how much attention something is getting in the press make a bigger difference.  Thiel was never big on exotic materials or other talking points that may have helped sales but that may or may not have improved the sound.  People who want accuracy are a niche within the high end audio niche. 

thanks Dan and Prof for your comments.  it is funny that your brother may have liked the 2.7's better as my girlfriend likes them better too.   i think that the "sweeter" mid bass sound is what appeals to her as they have a bit more warmth in some ways than the 3.7's.   Hell if i cannot sell them,  i might have to sell the 3.7's as i cannot afford to keep both.

Dan, I need my SmartSubs for my emerging guitar-making-research-recording-evaluation studio. One SS2 is being repaired. I'll report on the level of success.

350wpc is not too much. Too much really doesn't exist in my book, although there are small-amp aficionados who specifically want the wet sound of overdriven tubes. The amp you listed above @ 250-8 x 375-4 I judge to be inadequate (without ever hearing it.) If an amp doesn't double its output from 8 to 4, it is current limited and therefore producing distortion when driven hard. Thiel speakers drive hard, dropping below 3 ohms over extended ranges. That amp is likely to sound ragged / dry / conjested plus it could blow up drivers at high volume. Look for an amp that doubles from 8 to 4 and makes at least 1.5x its 4 ohm rating at 2.

ron,

One of the considerations I’ve had in deciding whether to sell my 3.7s or 2.7s is that I’ve figured the 2.7s would be a harder sell. They were pretty much under the radar (excepting of course the cover story on Absolute Sound - otherwise not a lot of reviews) and came out just before Thiel folded being Thiel. So I don’t think a lot of them were likely sold.

On the other hand the 3.7s had tons of reviews and years of coverage so everyone seems to know them. So they usually sell. (I haven’t even put my 3.7s up for sale, and I’ve had a number of email offers to buy them).

Plus, I got my 2.7s at such a good price it almost seems pointless to sell them.

That said, I did research 2.7 sales and it seems, though rare on the market, all the ones I could find did end up selling.

They are such a gem of a speaker. It’s too bad more people haven’t been exposed to them. I recently played some Bernard Herrmann recordings on vinyl for my musician brother who has listened to every system I’ve had since the 90’s. This was using the 2.7s and he was in shock at how incredible the sound was. I don’t think he’s ever been more effusive...and he’s heard my system with the 3.7s as well. Good recordings always help, though.

The 2.7s are keepers for me, which is why I just ordered spare drivers from Rob Gillum, which should be arriving soon.

Hi Ronkent,  I have bee reluctant to sell my cs-2.7's but have a small window to up grade to an additional pair of CS-3.7's  I am shocked you haven't gotten more attention. It tells me in a whole that most have not heard it correctly. I happened to pay more for my pair than you are asking, Yours look mint also, the pair I have can really pass as new. My plan was to use the 2.7 in a room where they will play double duty in 2 ch/ ht. my plan was going to have 2 SS2 subs  support them for both 2ch/ht  My gut says buy the 3.7's any way and figure out what to do with the 2.7's ,

Tom thank you for chiming in on the subs, Are you willing to part with one or both??  

I am now hunting down what amps to use and what pre AV processor, I want to get it right the first time! what is best sounding processor on 2ch   that has Dolby Atmos etc,, Mac, Casablanca, Anthem, Marantz, Classe etc... IDK  on amps what do you all think of ATI 6000 series  and also for rear cs1.7 and 4 thiel power point 1.2 is 350 wpc to much?       

Having a ball!!

Dan                                                    

TomThiel:  thanks so much.  the only reason i am selling them is because i just acquired a beautiful pair of maple 3.7's from Rob.  otherwise they would not be looking for a new home.  However i am certainly interested in updates and upgrades to the x.7 series.   Thank you for being here.  Your life story sounds like something out of a novel.  

Ron, I likewise have noticed that except for the likes of us here, Thiel seems rather passé. I expect that attitude to change as we gradually and by degrees create new possibilities for these classic models via upgrade options. A quiet Resurrection is what I envision. I am investing considerable time in the ReXO project.  A full 2.7 XO re-envision is a way down the road, but to the extent it might interest you, there are some upgrades that you could perform yourself or with a handy friend. I guess my point is that rather than taking a beating in a soft market, you might change the terms of engagement.

Dan, I have one SS1 and two SS2s (one working) in my studio. For my purposes of verity to the source, I've not heard anything close.

Jay, thanks for the Classe lead. I hope to identify and develop a solid electronics repair solution for EQs, SmartSubs, etc. that fall beyond Rob's grasp. Please keep that in mind for all of us.

Indeed, I came of age in the mid 60s and identified with the counter-culture and the folk resurgence, but from an unusual perspective. I avoided the drug thing and much of the dismissal of tradition. After high school I became a Brother in a teaching-social justice oriented religious order and continued studies in philosophy / social justice / human development until 1974 when I exited a PhD program to open my Conceptions Studio enterprise. My anti Vietnam War work and orientation underlay that time.
I formed a commune of sorts and bought land in the Cumberland Plateau of Kentucky to go "back to the land" and live outside the norms of mainstream society.  Thiel Audio was one of our community-cohesive work ideas that took root and "made it" to the exclusion of everything else. Have you ever ridden a wild horse?    

thanks.   fascinating that there has been so little interest in them when they are so collectable and such a great speaker.  

Thank You for the update - ronkent.hope your speakers find a good home soon.Happy Listening!

Good yo have you aboard - Dan.Happy Listening!

hi guys,   just wanted to let anyone interested in Thiel 2.7's know  that the set i have listed here has  had a price reduction.  Please check it out. 

Thanks for warm welcome, So cool there are others with similar taste and path. Since my last post a pair of MCS'1s and one of the SS.2  subs showed up! O ya,,,,the other speakers should be here within a week. 

Batmanfan thank you for your input, extremely helpful and a shot of confidence this is going to work!!   So I have been back to READING this time on AV pre amp processers and amps to drive this THIEL 5.2.4 Home Therter/2channel joy machine. So I'm all over the place and thought I was going all Mac and all in  mc161 AV audio processer, a pair of MC 601 monos for mains and a MC 8207 7 ch @ 200 wpc  Then I read your post and you were not thrilled with your  multi channel.  That lead me to my question to all, Has anyone run ATI Amps? they have a few models that go multi channel So I know I want more than 300 wpc for mains for 2ch and the center is extremely important, I was thinking the ATI 6003 a three channel for mains and center. Then go down a model to there 4000 series and have a 4008 made giving me three extra outs, thought it would be better on resale and have room to grow but more for resale.  The 4008 is rated at 250 @ 8 and 375 @4  it would run cs1.7 for rears and 4 thiel 1.2 power points for atmos. OR just keep it all the same wpc and get two 6000 series??  Whith Thiel what is going to give me better two channel MAC, Anthem, Marantz, or Theta Casablanca. What about cables if I was trying to save but don't want it them to hold anything back? Power conditioner? I know I'm NEEDY!! and having a ball! just hate making mistakes and selling or trading is no fun.  Thank you,  Dan  ps I cant spell very well so apologize up front,       

tomthiel

I perused the Classe' thread and wanted to pass this information forward to you. Contact Audio Advice in Raleigh NC- 919.881.2005 to inquire about possible repair on your amps. These guys, at one time, were a high-volume dealer/retailer for the Classe' brand and had an in-house certified service technician for all brands carried. My last visit, demo, was 2015.  Hope they can be of assistance to you owners.

Happy Listening!

Thank You - oblgny
Happy Listening!

BASS EQ FOR CS3.5

dinopau - where do you live?

I have a functional bass equalizer along with a complete pair of innards - crossovers, woofers, tweeters and midranges.  

The mids do not work.  So far as I could tell it worked fine but the mids didn’t.  

I live in NY 11755.  Contact me.  

tomthiel
Much Thanks! for the follow up. Did you consider your self a Hippie or Folkie back in those days? A very cool personal story indeed. I am glad that you are here and posting your history, impressions and thoughts. Isn't this a great hobby?
Happy Listening!

Guys-
if you have a spare Bass EQ for the 3.5 loudspeaker or know someone that does post here, contact dinopau. Urgent need on his end.
Thank You.

dinopau
Thank You for posting a follow up to your situation. I will keep an eye out for a spare Bass EQ that fits those 3.5 speakers. These do appear on eBay from time to time. In fact, I saw one earlier this year.
I hope one of the guys here can assist you with this dilema. I can hardly await for you to get the Accuphase up and running. This brand is on my short-list to demo.
Happy Listening!

Thielrules, thank you for your advise.
I wanted to create a vintage set so I started 4 or 5 years ago to build it. I begun it with a power amp Accuphase P360, perfect no issue, then I found the Tuner T108, works perfectly with the ant Magnum Dynalab. Then I bought the pre a C260 with many issues, power knob, mc input. It is still under repair, and I could not listen with the Thiel, purchased just two month ago or so. So I am using a pre Proton AP400, and the sound is very thin.
The C260 a a complete parametric eq that allows to increase the frequencies below 100 and or 40 hz. In addition it has a presence control that increases low frequencies when the volume is set below -50 dB. Do you think that I could compensate the lack of the Thiel CS3.5 bass eq with the low tone controls?

Thank you

I was in a similar situation when Rob was able to find some parts. An alternative that I found equally if not more effective is a dbx 1231 equalizer from eBay probably less than$100 as there is no market for these. Use the graphic profile from stereophile to approximate the factory settings or make your own profile making adjustments for your amp or room acoustics, of course within limits. Advantage is that there have  balanced as well as unbalanced input and output. Contact me if you have any questions.

Hello everybody, I received a email by Mr Gillum he cannot repair my cs3.5 bass equalizer. 
Despair and frustration, any idea or help? Without it the speakers simply do not work fine in my room, so does anybody know somebody able to fix it? Or where I could find a new used working one? 
Thank you 
Dino

Jay, my songs included Dylan, Leonard Cohen and many of the more insight and art driven folk fare of the time with a focus on my own music and that of our folk trio built around a female vocalist-arranger. We applied the seriousness of youth without any thought of making a living at it. A huge lesson for me was the radical difference between any recording and the live event and that commercially produced music could not be counted on as a reference. Record-making is a deep jungle.

Thank You for the update - beetlemaniayou guys have fun and take your time researching and testing the gear, materials.Happy Listening!

Thank You - tomthielWas Bob Dylan an influence on your singer-songwriter Coffeehouse years?Not  a bad idea to have a Musician on staff in a loudspeaker-making company. You guys certainly had all bases covered. Hope you guys are well out there.Happy Listening!

Since I was behind the scenes, it is normal for folks to be confused. As Beetle says, I was part of the mix from the beginning. Before co-founding Thiel Audio in the mid 70s with Jim and Kathy plus two more indispensible players, I had been a singer-songwriter-guitarist at the college coffeehouse level, had done some recording and had a producing art-craft studio with Walter Kling, another of the founding members. We made various artifacts of our own design - I made about 500 stringed instruments by the time Thiel Audio usurped my life. Fred Collopy, a college friend of mine joined us as business manager and Kathy stepped up for marketing and we decided to give speakers a try.  The Strata-gee.com interview from earlier this year scratches the surface pretty well.

Regarding Jim's records; they were detailed and extensive. They are missing in action through the change-of-ownership. I hope to recover them, or access to them. I agree, they are foundational for any real progress going forward.

In a holding pattern for now. Tom Thiel should get the custom Clarity caps by the end of the month. I do have my Multicaps now but don’t plan to use them until I build the new boards. In the meantime, I hope to identify any substantial cabinet resonances. And I’m enjoying the SEs with the Mills resistors. Probably the most cost-effective tweak I’ve done.