Happy Friday! All
Thiel Owners
Guys-
I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model?
Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!
Keep me posted & Happy Listening!
I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model?
Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!
Keep me posted & Happy Listening!
13,557 responses Add your response
I mentioned earlier I was putting my Thiel 2.7s back in my system after having spent quite a while with my new Joseph Audio Perspectives. I keep several speakers around because I always like some things about one speaker, others about another, and switching them around helps keep the experience feeling fresh. I never know for sure if I get used to one sound whether it will end up making me appreciate the previous speaker more, or less. With the Thiel 2.7s back in for the last couple days, if anything I appreciate them more having had a break from them. As usual..wow!..what a speaker! The Joseph speakers have an airier, more brilliant, more pure sounding high end and a lighter tonal shade. The Joseph speakers also have a rounder, juicier, more punchy bass. They can really create a beautiful combo of "punchy fun sound" in the bottom and gorgeous rainbows of tone from the mids up. What I’m loving about the Thiel again is that extra thickness and density to the sound, and the tidiness and precision. They just sound more confident and in control top to bottom, making other speakers even the Joseph speakers sound a bit more see-through and diffuse. The Thiels are darker and richer and more full in my system vs the Josephs. The highs are "very good" and superbly integrated, though the Josephs are more beautiful - strings sound a bit more silky and refined on the Josephs, that kind of thing. On the other hand, the Thiels will give a string section more solidity and presence. In fact over all the Thiels have a more consistent dynamic presence top to bottom and density.This really helps for rock music (I’ve been playing a lot of Rush lately). The Joseph speakers can be a bit on the "wispy" side in the upper mids when called upon to do crunching, thick electric guitar. The Thiels give electric guitar that grunt and solidity. The Thiels also do that fabulously controlled, yet dense and present bass - so Geddy Lee’s bass sounds tremendous. On the other hand, the Joseph speakers have, as I said, a bigger, rounder bass - very tight! - but there is a punchy reach-out-to-my-sofa bass effect that makes kick drums, bass guitar etc feel palpable. So with the Thiels, Neil Peart’s bass drum and Geddy’s bass will be locked right in between and behind the speakers, dense solid objects, but "over there between the speakers." Where on the Joseph speakers each note on the bass or hit of the bass drum punches air out so I feel it, which feels a bit more "real in the room" and is quite involving. And, where the Thiels are more consistently dynamically enthusiastic from top to bottom - there is something about the bass foundation of the Joseph speakers that feels like they "breath" a bit more realistically, insofar as I hear and feel the emphasis and dynamics a drummer is producing. It feels a bit more real. But then I go back to how the Thiels seem to do more justice to Alex LIfeson’s guitar, and it’s the old 6 or one-half-a-dozen thing between the speakers. In any case, I’m absolutely loving the Thiels, wallowing in their smooth organic tone, realism of imaging, the way they seem to do so well with any kind of music, etc. Just a great speaker! |
@jafant With my particular combination of gear and assuming a typical CD, clipping will onset at an indicated “40” on the AX-5. I usually listen at about 30 for rock, maybe 35 if I’m extra rowdy. But most of my listening is 20-28 indicated, even less when I’m sharing the house. The MX-R is far more powerful . . . and expensive. |
beetlemania Thank You for your point of view of the AX-5 Twenty. Last year during my auditions, the volume settings were 40-45 on amp read out. Plenty Loud from 8 to 10 feet away in a sweet acoustic space. I could not imagine pushing a setting over 50 from that amp. There is an Audiophile in my area that has the MXR amps in his set up. Hopefully I can obtain a demo soon for comparison. Happy Listening! |
@jafant unsound is steering you away from Ayre because it doesn’t vomit 2 ohm watts like a moon rocket on the Stereophile test bench. The CS2.4 presents a ~3 ohm load from 400-20k cycles. Two speakers need ~ 50 Watts to produce 90 dB at the listening position 9’ away (and that’s with a steady test signal, not music). Your DX-5 gain is a bit different than my QB-9 but not hugely so. In my system, clipping onsets around 97 dB with a typical CD. But I rarely ask for peaks north of 90 dB and most of my listening is 75-85 dB depending on genre and my mood. I’m probably only asking for 2-25 W for 90+% of my listening. The AX-5 is rated at 250 W into a 4 ohm load, Ayre doesn’t give a 2 ohm rating. That said, if you *do* listen at very high SPLs, the AX-5 probably won’t get you there. But before you believe me or unsound, listen for yourself, not via Stereophile measurements. |
@jafant , For your reconsideration: https://www.stereophile.com/content/thiel-cs2-2-loudspeaker-specifications https://www.stereophile.com/content/thiel-cs2-2-loudspeaker-measurements https://www.ayre.com/products/amplification/ax-5-twenty/#FEATURES-SPECIFICATIONS https://www.stereophile.com/content/ayre-acoustics-ax-5-integrated-amplifier-measurements https://www.ayre.com/products/amplification/ex-8/#FEATURES-SPECIFICATIONS https://www.stereophile.com/content/ayre-acoustics-ex-8-integrated-hub-integrated-amplifier-measurem... https://www.stereophile.com/content/ayre-ax-7-integrated-amplifier-specifications https://www.stereophile.com/content/ayre-ax-7-integrated-amplifier-measurements |
Jafant this is a great thread! Glad you started it!! So happy Tom Thiel is actively involved and posting!! I’m going to post a follow up to my cs7s I bought in early November after having 3.6s that I bought new in dec of 92 I haven’t changed any equipment or cables the cs 7s are better to my ears than the 3.6s in every way (And I’m a big 3.6 fan!!) the bass is deeper and more realistic, the mids and highs are very detailed the imaging is superb.This is with a cheap pioneer CD player through a proceed avp1 dac I can’t imagine what they will sound like when I get better equipment.The one thing I did notice is my bryston 4 nrb although sounds good and plays at a decent volume level isn’t able to make them play as loud as it did when I had my 3.6s you definitely need a big amp! Anyone contemplating the cs 7s don’t hesitate getting a pair, especially at the prices they are going for! David |
Hello all...it’s been a while since I last posted, but I have finally caught up with the 9 (!) pages of forum posts since I last visited. Kudos to JAfant for starting such a wonderfully informative, collaborative & civil discussion on our amazing speakers...4 years strong! My system remains unchanged: ARC LS-7 line stage, PH 3 phono pre amp & D-240 MKII ss amp. Main source these days is a Blue Sound Vault 2 with Tidal streaming. I continue to look forward to going to mono block amplification in effort to drive my CS 3.5s with greater authority & control. To that end, while we have many thoughts & feedback on tubes & solid state, I find myself wondering about the possibility of Class-D digital amplification. Anyone here have any thoughts on the usual suspect audiophile models from Bel Canto, Theta Digital, Wadia, etc? I had a chance to try ARC’s 450M Class-D amps, but they were bought before I could schedule a listen. Thanks for the knowledge & experience you’ve all shared here...it’s truly an exceptional forum! And, like so many others here, I really look forward to Tom Thiel’s & other’s efforts to hot rodding/extending our Thiels for the foreseeable future. Happy 2020! Arvin C |
Indeed, this has been a fantastic thread. Thanks for kicking it off, @jafant We are very fortunate to have Tom Thiel participating. When I bought my 2.4SEs, I had an inkling to upgrade the crossovers. But I had nowhere near in mind to take it as far as Tom coached me. I would have been nibbling around the edges and not making near the difference compared to the informed decisions from Tom's mind. I remain *super* happy with my upgrade and haven't budged from my position that these are my last speakers. In fact, with my DAC upgraded I doubt I'll make any further changes to my system other than to try the baffle treatments Tom is experimenting with. |
Rosami - your detailed comparison of the 2.4 vs 3.6 reads like the design brief for the two products. The Renaissance Project work has illuminated ways to make qualitative improvements for all Thiel models. I especially thank members of this forum for raising questions and perspectives that I, nor probably Jim, had considered. Remember the Vandersteen baffleless question? I responded with the company line of "one baffle, like one instrument". Then I scratched my head and went to work finding holes in my incomplete thinking. All in, I am addressing forms of distortion that contribute to that "upper frequency harsh glare" which I attribute to the speaker in some degree. Most of you have ameliorated it with careful and expensive system engineering. Thiel audio also used that particular equipment and sources that made it sound good. I believe we'll find ways to allow Thiel speakers to shine with most equipment and sources rather than a small subset as is presently necessary. I also thank those of you who are running parallel experiments and sharing outcomes with me. Even though progress is slow, progress is being made. |
All Today marks this thread's 4th Anniversary here on Audiogon. Since inception, we are acquiring and attracting new contributors and members of the Panel. I continue to become impressed with each passing year as Thiel Audio is finding its audience via the secondary market. Support continues to fortify and strengthen from several avenues including other Audio -based forums. The word is out indeed. Thank You- for everyone's Dedication and Passion towards the betterment of our Hobby. Happy Listening! |
mr_bill While this is only my personal opinion-listening in my room with my gear-it's obvious that the 3.6s and 2.4s have many of the same positive attributes-of which we're all aware. I think the 2.4s are somewhat higher resolution speakers than the 3.6s; they have the ability to uncover somewhat greater detail in recordings and perhaps (i'm not sure of this) slightly better imaging and space cues. The larger 3.6s are more at ease with dynamic material and have a more extended bottom end. The mid-bass is somewhat "slower" than the 2.4's (obvious on "fast" electronics such as my Naim system) and improving this area would be one of my main "wants." Also, the 3.6s seem to have an upper-mid glare, and this has been made more evident after I had my amp updated. But overall, in my room, the greater dynamic ease, separate midrange driver, and more extended bottom-end of the 3.6s were the main reasons i decided to keep those speakers. I'm hoping that-with Tom T.'s hot-rodding, there may be potential for greater improvement compared to the 2.4s. It was a tough decision though because the 2.4s do just about everything right. |
rosami Good to see you again. I hope your CS 2.4 speakers find the next home soon. Absolutely, a change in cable/power cord can make a significant difference. This fact cannot become discounted. There are quite a few here who enjoy the 3.6 model. Tom is working diligently on the upgrade path. Stay tuned. Happy Listening! |
Hi Guys. I haven't posted here very often and for quite some time, but remain a loyal Thiel fan and come back to read this thread often when i have time. For some background info...I own both CS3.6s (about 23 years!) and a much newer pair of CS2.4s which i purchased in March of 2019. The reason I purchased the 2.4s was to try to ascertain if an issue I began hearing after I had the "DR" update to my Naim 300 amp was speaker or electronics related. Turns out I heard the same issues on both the 2.4s and 3.6s. So for the last almost-2-years, I've been listening-making changes-listening...and have made significant progress. The most significant change was probably "time" - I think my amp needed many hundreds of hours of burn-in before an upper-midrange glare and harshness became more acceptable. Also, changing my speaker cables from Naim NACA5 to Townshend Isolda cables was significant. I've now decided to keep my 3.6s, sell my 2.4s (hope it's OK to plug my new ad on the "other" audio marketplace-in case anyone is interested in a really nice pair of 2.4s) and continue anxiously looking forward to Tom's upgrades on the 3.6s, especially given the recent posts discussing an upper-midrange glare present on the 3.6s that Tom will address. I've listened to quite a few speakers in the last 20-odd months and sat through quite a bit of BS from dealers criticizing Thiels, but after it all, I'm pretty confident that my 3.6s are still the real deal, and are worth the wait for Tom's magic. Thanks for all the good info - this thread continues to be a great place to read about and share our love of Thiel speakers! |
Rockrink - Rob is always super busy, so I hesitate to offer him as a solution. Generally he will respond if he has a solution for you. The 0 series products are more than 40 years gone, so I don't know. As a long-shot speculation, Eminence Speaker Company is alive and well in Eminence Kentucky and MIGHT have records. The 03 and 03a from 1978 to 1983 shared the same woofer. It may have been the same or different woofer as the 01, 01a, 01b. They might know. |
Tomthiel, I agree that the CS3.6 is the model to start with. There were so many sold, and they have had so many accolades, positive reviews, and historical references, that people who own them just love them, and people who dont, do remember them. There is nothing in the used marketplace, even close to thier audiophile sound qualities for the prices they sell for now. So once you get a couple of thier sonic flaws eliminated, and the word gets out that Mr. Tom Thiel (and Rob of Coherent Source) offer mods for them, one of the USA's most famous speakers (ever) can become a truly collectable "classic" item. I will stick with my Thiel 3.5s and 3.7s, driven by MFA and ARC 6550 tube amps (respectively) of course. BUT, I do have a BIG solid state amp, that I'm not using, just PERFECT for 3.6s: Classe DR-250, 250 wpc, and one of the sweetest big amps ever made. |
Re: CS6 Data Point I wrote Rob a short note and asked him what he could tell me about my CS6’s - SN 1537 & 1538. Here’s what he said. The CS6 was in production from 1992 through 2009. My pair was built around 2005. There are a few versions of drivers and crossovers for the CS6 but mine are the latest version. I asked Rob if he had developed any "hot rod kits" for the CS6 and he said that changing any parts to the crossovers have proven to reduce the performance. He added that he felt that Jim had pretty much optimized the design of that particular model. I’m surprised that the CS6 had such a long manufacturing run (17 years). It seems to overlap somewhat with the 3 series but obviously it held its niche in the product line. |
