@morganc .. I use BNC with my Pagoda. I prefer it to their USB implementation.
The Six Moons.com review on the Mhdt Labs Orchid DAC just went up
This morning the review on the superlative Mhdt Labs Orchid DAC was just posted on Six Moons.com. It gives all the details why I have made it my reference DAC. I also share my position, with flexibility, that all all the hype regarding high resolution formats as being superior sounding to 16/44.1 kHz or 16/48 kHz R-2R ladder DACs is just that "hype".
Hope you enjoy the review.
Hope you enjoy the review.
73 responses Add your response
@big_greg thanks! |
@viggen Well it should work then if you are sure it doesn't need to be flashed with firmware and it's exactly the same chip. |
@lordmelton I don't think I'd need firmware update if I am switching from 1541A R which is stock in Orchid to single crown since they are the same exact chip just hand picked? |
Thanks guys. Quick question: what output are you using for the Orchid? Is it optimized for one vs another? I've typically used USB outputs for my MHDT Canary Dac and I have an Orchid on the way and I'm considering using the orchid with a Lyngdorf 2170 and Tekton electrons. However the lyngdorf is used and doesn't have USB input. I think @grannyring that you used this combo before? What output did you use and what was your experience? Thanks for your reviews @teajay |
This review was the final straw to finally get me to pull the trigger on the Orchid. I'm really glad I did and I'm enjoying digital more now as an alternative to spinning vinyl. Lots of great CDs to be had for cheap! A little easier than hunting NM vinyl with the best pressing. I plan to add a streamer or server in the future also. |
IMO there are many variables that have impact on the sound. I am a transport spinner and many of the DACs reviewed or heard will sound different with a different transport. I don't know what $14K DAC was compared to a $2K DAC that was equal, better or close, I find hard to believe but that comes down to the design of the component. If you understand design, then you can understand if the price is worth it or not. Is a $20K cable worth $20K? Does that cable have as big of impact on the sound? Reviews are nice to read but overall to me I only want to hear something in my system and make my own judgement. Many recent comments about some DACs did not work out for me when I heard them. The DACs that were reviewed or recommended that were considered good, were nothing special to my ears. Good OK, but no giant killers that I heard. Maybe good values for the money but that was all I heard. You can buy older DACs and upgrade a few parts and have better values and provide better sound IMO for a lot less also. Happy Listening |
Bsme85 "mhdt Lab did pay 6Moons for this review. I own the Orchid, as well as Schitt Gumby, and PS Audio PWD Mark II." I also own a PS Audio PWD Mark II. How would you discribe the differences between the Mark II and the Orchid? I love most everything that the Mark II offers: detail, spaciousness, warmth, etc., but there is a little bit of hash around the vocals that I could do without. So, I’m wondering. Thanks Toolbox |
Ok, i had a Prism Sound Callia DAC and decided to get the Orchid. The Orchid was comparable to the Callia (although the Callia is pricier) and i would say somewhat better sounding over the Callia although the Orchid does not have a headphone or volume control. Also, the Orchid does not upsample and is based on a single tube output. I do not regret the change especially since changing out the Phillips 1541 A for 1541 S1 single crown. The single crown S1 is richer, deeper bass, more depth, improved imaging, soundstage and clarity.. |
Hey janehamble,, Sorry, you wore yourself out over my "absurd drivel". Then you were "too tired" to address the rest of what I stated on this thread, not in an Email. What I would expect from someone who slings mud and then cops out over the objective details of what they had said. Thanks, for wishing me well in my future endeavors in my career. |
@teajay When you opened your post of 9-7-18 - you know, the one about the DAC that crushes price v performance ratio - with "I felt strongly that I wanted to inform the Gon members about a new DAC that ranks with the very best on the market" I stupidly assumed that you were implying that the LAB 12 was a new product, at the time of this comment. Your famous report for HomeTheatreReview starts with "In the last six months, the internet has been abuzz with a handful of rave European reviews for a new DAC (digital to analog converter) from a Greek company called LAB 12". I should have realized you meant "new, in the past", or something. Joking aside....are you seriously trying to tell us that you weren’t saying (then) that the Lab 12 is new? Sorry, I’m too tired to address the rest of your email. You’re absurd drivel has worn me out. Good luck in your future product reviewing / blogging career. |
Hey janehamble, You have made some comments and sharp criticisms about me and my integrity based on false representations of what was actually written in my review on the Lab12 DAC. 1) In the review I never stated what year Lab12 started the original production for the DAC1. I did state, "last six months, the internet has been a buzz" regarding how many listeners really loved the performance of the DAC1. So, when you state I have "no clue/a little shocking" about this or I'm an idiot for not knowing when the DAC1 was originally manufactured that's based on your false assumption. It was not part of my review, and I knew that it had been in production for some time. 2) I was informed by the company that they had made some internal part changes during this production run and the DAC sent to me was the upgraded SE version. Again, I never stated when they had made this change. Unless, they lied to me, I stated what they had shared with me about the different generation change. Therefore, for your personal attack on my honesty is your "BS" towards me. 3) Never called the Lab12 DAC1SE the best in the world, claimed that it competed with DACS that cost over 14K more, it replaced my reference that cost 10K and was a great bargain. Wrote the review for HTR and started one thread to share this GON members. True, if I was asked a question on thread I would respond to it. So what, yet your words," full-on brand disciple" implies that I'm some type of lacky for this company. Hum, six months later I discover and review the Orchid which performs at a higher level and costs half the price, and honestly share this information. That sounds like I'm beholden to LAB12, does it not? Lastly, your term "influencers" would imply I'm told what to write or payed off to give positive reviews. Of course you have a right to your opinion. However, I have a day job, write for fun, and nobody ever tried to make write anything other then what I heard regarding a piece of gear in my auditioning process. The most amusing comment that you made about me is, " TJ's affections can be somewhat transitory". If you mean that if I find a great piece of gear that out performs my reference and that I tell the truth and share the information, I guess you are right! |
@ ghasley I'll find to hard to be clearer than the simple statements I've already made about this subject - but just for you, I'll try. My goal was originally to flag up a significant error when Terry London wrote a review about the Lab 12 DAC for HomeTheatre Magazine https://hometheaterreview.com/lab-12-dac1-special-edition-reviewed It's obviously a euphoric review. TJ is highly impressed...which is fine. But it's more than a little shocking he apparently has no clue that this same product has been available for 5 years. He's chosen to present the Lab 12 as an incredible new model. Having completed the product test, he then turns full-on brand disciple, spreading the word with his popular Audiogon post "A DAC that crushes price vs performance ratio". On and on he goes, post after post, about the fabulous Lab 12, using his @teajay name, of course. A few 'Goners call him out for his apparent conflict of interest, but he bats them back quite confidently. When I asked him about the Lab 12's history, he replied " The Lab12 DAC that we are discussing on this thread is the newer version called the SE. I do believe that the DAC chips and basic overall design is the same, with better/different internal parts in the circuit in critical places that improve the sound." This is complete bullshit, of course. The original SE is exactly the same as the model he tested, and he knows it - preferring to maintain the misrepresentation. So now, here we are 6 months later. And TJ's got a new favorite DAC. Even better than the last one, except it's half the cost. What's not to love? I have no problem with Six Moons, Home Theatre or any other magazine hiring 'influencers' to write reports. That's the name of the game these days - and as I've been in marketing 35 years, I know quite well how it works. In this particular case, I'm noting that TJ's affections can be somewhat transitory. |
@janehamble What is it you are saying exactly? Its no news at all that 6moons charges a fee to review a piece of gear. Is it your position that by doing so it should invalidate their findings? The fee is charged up front along with other rules governing shipping, returns etc. Most reviewers get extended “loans” of the gear they review. Does that bother you as well? Do you believe that the Orchid is not good, that the review is somehow misleading? What about the 6moons Pass reviews? Their reviews of the Lumin equipment? Is that equipment now bad because they were reviewed by 6moons? Is your problem with 6moons in general or @teajay in particular? Or are you a Lab12 owner? You really should come out with what it is that truly bothers you...the review methodology, the review site or the reviewer. Full disclosure, I am not in the audio biz, I don’t own a Lab 12 nor an Orchid nor have I heard either. |
Janehamble Teajay is a great guy and I do consider him an AUDIO BUDDY! I contacted him several times and he always responded to my questions and inquiries. Based on his recommendations I realized we both like the same type of performance from our equipment. He recommended the Orchid to me a few months ago and he was spot on with his review. Besides being a bargain, it sounds wonderful especially with redbook cds. I personally preferred the sound of the Orchid over more expensive dacs such as the Metrum Onyx and PS Audio Direct Stream. Based on my musical tastes he recommended the Lawrence Audio Violin SE speakers and again he was spot on. When I inquired about upgrading to their Cello speakers, he suggested I keep the Violins based on the size of my listening room. When I inquired about the Tekton Impacts, again he thought the Violins were more suited to my tastes and size of my room. |
@janehamble Thank you for the kind reply. I do not disagree with you in the least....in general. I do, however, disagree with you specifically as it relates to @teajay for the following reasons. he has an impeccable reputation here on Audiogon. He was a hobbyist like the rest of us, with a day job, offering peer to peer type reviews of gear he had experienced. His reviews were good enough and well informed that he was asked to write for Home Theater Review and now, 6moons. Shouldn’t we celebrate that one of us crossed over? Your implication that he has ulterior motives is flat out unfair. For the conspiracy to be a valid option, you are asking us to believe that somehow Lab12 corrupted him somehow but was subsequently “outbid” by MHDT. That’s a bit of a stretch wouldn’t you agree? I don’t know @teajay but the body of his review work speaks for itself. His enthusiasm for Tekton and Linear Tube Audio has opened doors for alot of fellow hobbyists as well as these small manufacturers to reach a wider audience. The audiophile community is pretty small and if he says something sounds good for the “following reasons” and it turns out that is not the case, he will get called out. His enthusiasm for Pass Labs has not been controversial nor have you accused him of being on the take in that case. Could it be because everyone knows Nelson Pass could give a rat’s backside about the outcome of a review so therefore, you assume that endorsement was arms length? I just believe that your cynicism, inadvertent or intentional, questioning @teajay’s character and integrity is out of bounds and quite unfair. |
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@ghasley you may or may not realize it, but these audio forums are pretty much inundated with manufacturers and associated influencers with business objectives. That's all good - especially when they declare their bias and help enthusiasts understand their products. No problem per se, with that. Where I draw the line is deliberate misinformation. Sadly, it happens all the time. In the case of the Lab 12, the 'reviewer' proclaimed the product as a new model. Innocent mistake? Oh please....takes about 30 seconds of Googling to discover the history. It may well be a lovely sounding DAC that somehow wasn't discovered when it was launched in 2013, but to call it new in 2018 is just a goofy attempt at deception. And we - the audio enthusiasts - should call out BS when we step on it. |
@teajay I see no problem even if you receive the review sample for free AFTER you get to audition and love it enough to keep it. However, if you are given a free equipment in return for a positive review, then there is a problem. I think “some” people don’t think there’s a difference and again “some” people who know the difference think you do the latter. Please keep finding killer products. When I buy a product for $1000 that surpasses 10 times more expensive products, I feel 10 times happier:) |
Hey celo, Actually, I had my Magnepan 20s for over 18 years until I replaced them with Lawrence Audio Cello speakers. I get two major perks out of professionally reviewing: 1) I get to hear/audition equipment in my home environment, which is quite different then at show or store space. It's a great pleasure to hear gear that I'm very interested in to see how good or different it is compared to my own reference pieces in my own two systems. 2) Yes, a great perk is then be able to purchase at a reduced price a review piece if I'm so inclined. The cynics would and have accused me of being "bought off" or being payed to write a positive review. I can honestly say I have never written a review for financial gain. I still get great pleasure of finding killer products at reasonable prices and sharing this information in my reviews. |
One thing I don’t understand why would Terry give false review for a company that is pretty small such as MHDT, Lab12? Say these small companies pay him to do these reviews, how much they could pay? Let’s say MHDT gives the review sample to him for free, why would Terry replace his reference DAC with a cheaper model? He could still say good things about it but at least put the Orchid in his second system if he had to mention he keeps it. I am trying to understand but it just doesn’t make sense to me. Maybe I am naive. Now, if it was a bigger company say B&W, Sonus Faber, McIntosh, etc. it would make more sense. Terry used his Magnepans for like 10 years I think. Why wouldn’t he replace the Magnepans before? He used his Pass Labs for many years. Why wouldn’t he come up with a different amp to replace before? I cannot put the pieces together in the puzzle. |
@janehamble Your post throwing shade at @teajay may have been an attempt at humor but why does everyone have to be so aggressive, cynical or unkind? Buy it or don’t buy it, nobody cares, least of all Teajay. Everything he has recommended (based on personal experience or the preponderance of other posts) seems to sound pretty good for the money. Maybe its your taste, maybe it isn’t. People seem to think that most reviewers are getting rich or getting kickbacks from manufacturers, which just isn’t the case. These guys have found a way to get the opportunity to listen to alot of gear, more power to them. Your post however implies that once someone identifies something as a world beater, they aren’t allowed to ever identify another...thats just unreasonable. |
This DAC seems like an unbelievable bargain - top-level performance for about a grand sounds like a wonderful idea. I'll take two. What holds me back is skepticism about the author of this review. As he mentions himself, his review of the "New" Lab 12 Dac was largely responsible for the wave of hype about that 6-year old, re-heated, re-discovered device that has since been discontinued, once the truth eventually leaked out. I'm not saying the Orchid is bad and everything he writes is bollocks - I'd just recommend a pinch of salt. |