The amazing new Marigo Evolution Signature Mat
Audiofeil, FWIW, and for better or worse, the $200 cost for this mat is so insignificant to the overall cost of my current system. I suspect that the same is true for many others from a proportional dollar perspective. Money has nothing to do with it. A credible upgrade in musicality, for a very small investment is, as they say in the commercials, priceless. GG |
Hi Ps, What affronts me are people making unsubstantiated, meaningless comments on a device that they have never heard. It's similar to a blind person describing, from a visual perspective, a sunset. To those who believe in the "placebo" effect, my sense is that you will always have that perspective, regardless of what the efficacy of the device may offer. This is audio, correct? That's why we have two ears, correct? GG |
Gordon G (Hi from MLO) asks: Why this tone / disrespect you may ask? Well, my view is that forum's are in general, a modern day human (male) equivalent to the 'world of nature during the rutting season', all attempting to display our superiority. (knowledge and possessions). Do forums centred around female activities attract the same heat? I read both this post and yours Gordon, simultaneously, and as i have not used the product i dont feel qualified to add anything to either. Regards, Ps |
Hi Branislav, I don't get the fact that people, who have not heard a product, seem to think they can comment on its pros and cons. It's totally uniformed and meaningless. Perhaps they have a self esteem problem and want to pick a fight so they can make themselves feel better. Or perhaps, they like to see their useless words on a website to justify whatever. There are credible audio websites where the insecure don't post. Because if they do, the sites are moderated and ultimately, they get banned. Not good for the small ego. GG |
Bubinga, unfortunately it's not just this website, people in general has lost their credibility as far as I'm concerned. I found a forum about this speaker manufacturer I ordered a speaker from, with discussion about his product, in order perhaps to find some new interesting facts or impressions. Instead it turned into a tug of was between 2 camps, one that either heard or owned the speaker and one that never heard it but found millions of reasons why the speaker sucks. I got so disgusted with it...and I was giving audiophiles more credit than your average yahoo reader making ridiculous comments about everything. |
So here's my take. I would never start a thread on this site. Here we have Cooper, who wanted to make folks aware (in a well intentioned manner)of a product that may help others increase the performance of their respective system. Seems simple and straight forward enough. And what happens? Verbal attacks, abusive remarks, and condescending comments from those WHO HAVE NEVER HEARD THE PRODUCT. Why this tone / disrespect you may ask? Beats me but it's very unfortunate. It severely impacts the credibility of this site (in a negative manner) and discourages those who may want to post about an accessory, or other unusual / unorthodox product from doing so. Have a great life Badwisdom. By the way, your user name is perfect. GG |
Ballywho, since you don't know me and have no experience with my products, perhaps it's actually you who has no integrity, although I can certainly understand your anger and frustration. For your information, not meaning to make you even more angry, I have one of the highest ratings on the site, if not the highest. Cheers, Geoff Kait Machina Dynamica |
Budt, Finally, you start making sense. Ballywho- you are such a sceptic and nihilist, unfortunately, you are wrong on all accounts. If you cannot measure something, it doesn't mean it's not measurable. Also, it's likely, we just don't know, what to measure. That horse had been dead for a while now, it's simply back to a following statement- if you cannot hear the difference, it only means one (no, make that two) things- your system. or your ears (or both) are not resolving enough. |
@Bradluke0 "Hate to go into this again but if you cant hear these things dont blame us that can" Ah, the Golden Ear argument comes into play. Well, I contest that if you can't measure it, it is a meaningless point to argue. And thusfar I've not seen a single measurement referenced. @Coppersark I meant to throw this into my initial response to your ridiculous rant: If a $200 mat can make a shocking improvement in a $10,000 transport, then you need to throw the transport out (and then let ML's engineers and designers know that they need to rethink things). Lastly, here's *my* rant: I'm kinda sorry to be such a you-know-what about this stuff, but I suppose I've finally seen the light as of late: hi-end interconnects are BS, hi-end speaker cabling is BS, hi-end power cables are utter BS, mats are BS, cable risers are BS, hi-fi power outlets are BS, wooden/sorbothane/unobtainium feet are BS, several hundred dollar cutting boards are BS, bags of rocks and chips and teleportation tweeks are *utter and complete* BS... And as a group of - I would imagine - relatively intelligent people, we should be able to see (and hear) right through it all. If your devices vibrate so much that you need to modify them with aftermarket feet/roller blocks/spikes, to isolate or couple the device with aforementioned several hundred dollar cutting board, then you've got bigger problems and need to look into better designed equipment. If the power from your wall creates so much noise that you need aftermarket power cables and outlets and conditioners and filters then you've got much bigger problems. If your $10,000 transport needs a $200 mat (which I would guess cost less that 1/10th of that to produce) to really shine, then you need to get another - heck *any* other - transport. And lastly, if you are so despirate and easily coerced that you will actually spend your hard earned money on blue dots and bags of rocks and little clocks and chips and teleportation tweeks, then you should not be making any life decisions henceforth. Geoffkait, although I don't know you personally, I will just come out and say that what you do is shameful and your "products" should be banned from this site for the sake of the integrity of this hobby that we all love. I've often thought of how easy it would be to make my own snake oil; how easy it would be to take the proverbial candy from the proverbial baby, but it's not, and never will be, in my nature to do so. I would not be able to sleep at night after just one sale. I'm surprised others are. This hobby has gone from one that was viewed with fascination and interest to one of complete and total mockery (go ahead and Google "audiophile")... Don't prepetuate it. |
Xavier, I did try it with my cat (Abyssian) but she would not sit still long enough to perform a valid A / B test. Also had the issue of getting cat hair in the laser mechanism. I did like the improvement with my dog (brittany spaniel) because he was heavier (48 lbs.) and would stay for an extended period, as long as I gave him some Milk Bones. If you do use your child, make sure the diapers are fresh to preclude damaging your CDP. GG |
I have just put my 21 month old daughter on my CD player and the effect is amazing. I suggest anyone who has a daughter try this. I hear that if you have a son you get more bass and less voluptuous highs, but YMMV. This can be compensated by adding a cat, but it has to be white. Black cats suck. Cheers Xavier |
GG, I had just read your post on the ML site and the threads...It is amazing that guys will negatively comment based on anything but first hand experience! This is the fourth iteration of Ron's Marigo mat. I have found each successive generation an improvement, but with this one, Ron had hit the ball out of the park! If a listener hears a dulling of his audio system as a result of using this mat, then there is something wrong with that system as it is not neutral or resolved. Now that I have been using this mat in both of my systems for several weeks, I have found the tonal signature to be like that of a good moving magnet or moving iron cartridge, as opposed to a moving coil with a hyped up high frequency emphasis. However, the sound staging and imaging is stupendous! I swear that I have another five feet of additional sound stage width on both sides of my listening room with much more resolution and sonic alignment of what is going on within that stage. The sense of the venue of the performance has never been so strong or apparent! (I use Magico Q5's and they perfectly couple to my room - The Q5's bass performance is second to none in its speed and resolution.) I have never experienced digital sounding so pleasurable, detailed, smooth, or accurate. Until recently I was ready to upgrade my digital system. I am not in such a hurry now. I can easily live with what I have for several years to come and patiently wait for the state of the digital art to advance before I take another plunge. I think that we are similar in that we are experienced audiophiles and that the panacea is not necessarily in changing our equipment, but rather tuning and refining what we already own and enjoy. I know that I have invested a lot of time, experience, and money into my main system. It was carefully thought out - from the listening room, to the speakers in that room, to the isolated electric delivery to that room, to the components themselves, to the cabling that connects the components, and to the control of vibration. Everything in that system has a purpose and was chosen to work in perfect harmony with everything else. I am loth to change for the sake of change. The addition of the new Evolution Signature mat only served to confirm the positive and synergistic choices that I had made. Our hobby is about having some fun and enjoying music. This little mat has taken that enjoyment to a whole new level. Thank you for taking the time to comment. I my only wish is that some audiophiles will read what we had written and try this new mat, particularly when they have resolving systems. Perhaps they will be as enthusiastic as you and I as to its efficacy. Please have a Happy New Year as well! With all my best, Coopersark |
Hi Coopershark, I came upon this thread and feel somewhat compelled to respond. For the record, absent the Martin Logan Club, I rarely post on other websites. I like the MLC site because, amongst other things, the vast majority of folks are respectful and thoughful. After reading this and if you so choose, you can see my system on a similar thread I started on this very topic. Google Martin Logan Club. Goto the MLC home page, click on the "Off Topic Audio Video" section and see the "Silly, stupid bargain" thread. I, like Cooper, wanted to share my personal observation on the new Evo Sig mat. Not because I have any personal interests in Marigo Audio but because I firmly believe this product offers substantial value for the money. As an aside, I think Ron is an individual with impeccable integrity and offers products based on defensible science. For those who don't wish to do this, my system consists of the MBL 116 speakers, Conrad Johnson Premier 18 LS preamp, the Cary Audio 306 CD / SACD CDP, and a Pass Labs X250.5 amplifier. I'm listing only to provide some frame of reference. Having recently received my 306 back from Ron Hedrick, who did some modifications, he asked if he could include his new mat for auditioning. I agreed on the basis that I could return it if I didn't care for the product. I had the previous Signature 3D Stabilizer V2 and had mixed results. I still use it on my DVD player. Over the past week or so, I did some A/B (with and without) on about ten different occasions. I've since stopped since the results were consistent in all cases. That being an easily heard improvement in all aspects of sonic performance. Richer, more saturated tonal structure, improved soundstaging / dimensionality, and the ability to hear much deeper into the music. To summarize, a substantial increase in the overall musicality of my system. For the record, I listen mainly to classical and jazz although I do occasionally enjoy Pink Floyd, Dire Straits, Parov Stelar, Richard Thompson, Anni DeFranco, and others. I do wonder about the relevance of a systems ability to provide a transparent / articulate presentation and its relationship to how easy or difficult it is to hear what this product does. My sense is that any "credible" system will benefit from this accessory. If your system has an overly warm presentation, you may have the opposite reaction that I've had regarding the efficacy of this device. For me and in my system, it's an absolute no brainer and an extreme value. I would advise everyone to give this accessory a "test drive". You may be pleasantly surprised what $200 has to offer. From reading the various posts, my sense is that there are those who disavow any product of this genre. And there are those who apparently have posted who have never auditioned this device. I don't quite understand how any credible person can do this but .........what do I know. And for those who believe they will hear an improvement just because one has made a change in the system, all I can say is that's why you have two ears. I've been involved in this wonderful hobby for some 35 years and I believe I've reached the point where I can distinguish BS from the real deal, that being system musicality and connecting emotionally with the music. I will gladly respond to anyone who wishes to post in a respectful manner. I will not respond to people who make gross generalizations without any objective basis for doing so. Happy listening and Happy New Year to all. GG |
hi all ! We used to just put two cd's in the drawer and listen that way , yup made a difference . Then I got a metal disc from discwasher , went on top of the cd ...and yup that made an audible difference also.Dont know what happened to the discwaser disc and I dont remember the last time I loaded 2 cd's in the drawer .It changed the sound , just not for the better or worse . |
I find the OP believable but sounds a bit like an advertisement. Over the years I've found different isolation under different components can make a big difference. At present I've found my Ayre CD5MP prefers a carbon fiber base while my Audio Research DAC8 insists on being directly coupled to the two inch thick stand shelf. |
First, I don't know squat about this mat. Second, A while back I bought a Playback Designs MPS-5 player and I didn't feel that the stock feet were up to snuff. Some one here did a similar review of a product called Marigo Mystery Feet or something like that. I found out that Margio is next door to me, about 100 miles away, so I decided to call them, or him. Now those feet were stupid expensive and I had just spent a ton of dough on the MPS-5 but he gave a 30 day money back deal, so I thought what the hell. While I was talking to the guy he asked me where I lived and when he found out that I was nearby he said he would pay the shipping and told me to forget about the 30 day deal - he said that if I ever didn't like the feet, just send them back and I would get my money back! Well, I had NO intention of keeping the feet, too much money and I did not believe they could make much of a difference, plus, I would only be out a couple of bucks for the return shipping. The next day they arrived,I put em under the player and they have never left yet! I didn't want to believe they would work but I couldn't ignore what I heard. YMMV. |
Coopersark I appreciate your post a lot. I have a SID mat in a 8k system and I easily hear a positive difference with it on many cd's. And you have provided some useful info for me and I imagine others too. I think it depends on what you are listening for and what you are able to hear. I have no in depth knowledge but I wouldn't be surprised if each persons ears for a lots of reasons hear differently. It doesn't matter though I live in my own world and deal with that one, not others. Thanks again. |
You people are delusional. You're certainly not stupid because you're able to write paragraphs with words which makes sentences, but seriously, you have got to stop believing this fairy dust. The mind is more powerful than you can ever imagine, but if you can imagine that a MAT will make a difference on a CD player, then god help you. Amen @Ballywho |
Anything you despirately *want* to sound better *will* sound better. If you paid money for a bag of rocks that you actually think will make your interconnects perform better, they will. If you paid money for a chip to place atop your player, and believe that an enhancement has taken place, it has. If you paid money for a phone call to your house that will supposedly affect your system in some positive way, it will. So, if you paid money for a rubber mat to place on your discs, and believe it makes a SHOCKING improvement (though preventing your player's motor from spinning as intended), then it has. Heck, I poured 10 pints of heavy Belgian brew down my pie hole the other night and was amazed at how positively it affected every aspect of my system. Seriously, though, the mind's power to make one believe almost anything is what's truly SHOCKING. And the above are a examples are what I believe to be one of the most hilarious phychological marketing experiments ever. |
Maril555, Thank you for taking my side! I just wanted to do the audio community a favor in sharing my unbridled enthusiasm for a new product, one that is WAY better than anything else that I have heard before. If someone want to be skeptical it is their right and privilege to do so. If they want to be enlightened then they can take off the plate that I have passed to them. With appreciation, Coopersark |
IMO it is not implausible that this mat could significantly improve the quality of real-time playback of a cd, for instance by making it easier for the transport's servo mechanisms to track the pits, thereby reducing the amount of noise they may generate that is coupled into unrelated circuits; by reducing jitter; perhaps by reducing the number of errors that cannot be bit-perfectly corrected by the powerful error correcting codes that are utilized on cd's, etc. However, if the disk is ripped to a computer hard drive using software that assures a bit-perfect file, the result, with or without the mat, will be ... a bit-perfect file. Regards, -- Al |
Badwisdom, Before you appeal to someone's common sense, I would suggest, you do some homework first. CD playback is strictly an analog process, there are no "ones and zeroes" on the disc! "CD data is stored as a series of tiny indentations known as "pits", encoded in a spiral track moulded into the top of the polycarbonate layer. The areas between pits are known as "lands". Each pit is approximately 100 nm deep by 500 nm wide, and varies from 850 nm to 3.5 µm in length. The distance between the tracks, the pitch, is 1.6 µm" So, the CD playback is a subject to pretty much the same rules, that apply to a vinyl playback, the only difference being a laser, "reading" pits and lands, instead of a stylus, more specifically vibration control and such. Before I go any further, I would like to say, that I never heard any of the Marigo products, so, I don't have an opinion on any of the mat's virtues. With regards to Simon (Spectron)- the only comment, i can make is this- I heard his sytem quite a few times, and if i had to make a bet, there is a chance, that his hearing and ability to notice differences in sound reproduction, are at the very least equal, and likely much higher, than mine, yours, or anyone else here. And if he reports an improvement, I'm willing to bet moderate amount of $$$, that it is real. I checked that quite a few times myself, when I cross- referenced his impressions in my own system, such as power cord, etc. Coopersark, So, you are saying, that if the OP liked the product "he is a shill", and if his system costs more, than yours, then "he is an arrogant A-hole"??? That's very original and insightful. Then, by analogy, if somebody with more expensive system, than yours, called you "a stupid looser" for instance, he would have been right? Right? |
I have said all that I am going to say on the subject. You have myself using a Mark Levinson Reference transport, Spectron using a new Esoteric Transport, and Jonathanhorwitz who is using the mat in his disc mastering all hearing similar improvements. These are in the context of three different systems. I have mentioned my secondary system where I am hearing improvements as well. The Marigo Mat is a low cost item that I am sure is returnable. We are not talking about a high risk proposition here, try one for yourself and decide. I have a couple of these and am awestruck with the results, as far as what you do or don't do about trying one of these Marigo mats is really none of my concern. |
Jfz , your totally right. In fact I could go a step further and say everyone on this site should have a system link complete with pictures. It really has nothing to do with privacy and gives the person credibility and helps others understand what a poster is trying to convey. Is one picture worth a thousand word's? About. My music room door is always open to anyone that wants to come over and have a listen. |
Thank you for taking the time to tell me how you feel. I'm sorry that you feel that way. I am not trying to brag, rather avoid bragging by not going into the equipment and other details of my system. Yes, it is ultra high end. I am just stating that for the context of what I am hearing. I am no kid and have been involved in our hobby for almost forty years. Over those years, I have done countless hours of listening and have refined my hearing and taste to a very high level. I have also been fortunate financially to possess the audio system that I have and to have experienced what I have had in the past. The God's honest truth is that this is a low cost item that has proven itself in the context of my highly evolved and refined system to be absolutely mind blowing in its benefits. I am not in the audio industry, and have NOTHING to gain by "shilling". What I have to say was done as a favor to other audiophiles, based on my long experience. I am THAT awestruck by this little device. Simple as that! |
Coopersark The more you post about this little $1 or $2 rubber disc the more you come across as a shill. I don't know if you are or not but it certainly has crossed my mind a few times. Also, bragging about the cost of your room/setup comes across as though you are an arrogant a-hole....I'm not saying you are but the thought crossed my mind a few times as I read your last post.... |
Spectron, with all due respect, that is pure and utter bull****. A ripper, extracting a digital stream from a transport, sees 0 and 1s with error detection algorithms. You could sit an elephant on your transport and if it could support it there would be NO CHANGE in your rip. Come on guys, wheres you common sense ?,??? |
Simon -- I absolutely agree with you. I know that this may sound arrogant, but most guys in our hobby have never heard a truly resolving balanced audio reproduction system. Where are they going to do so? Not at an audio show, as the electric delivery is garbage and show condition room acoustics are terrible at best. Not at a dealer's showroom, ditto for electric and acoustics (unless the room has dedicated and distributed power and nothing else is in the room other than the system itself and a seat with no other electronics or speakers in the room - a combination that I have never experienced at a dealer anywhere). Not at most guy's homes either. It is unfortunate that most audiophiles do not have a dedicated properly treated listening room with proper electrical distribution. Just the amount of real estate that is necessary to do this and the annual property taxes on that real estate make doing so prohibitive for most, let alone the additional construction cost of designing and building a proper listening room. It is also unfortunate that most guys are chasing the "preamp of the month" as a salvation to audio nirvana, rather than treating their system (after all the magazines are about selling new product - the audio manufacturers are their major source of revenue through their advertising), its placement, loudspeaker size relative to the room, having the right type of amplifier to drive those loudspeakers with impedance matched components, vibration control (Marigo mat is part of that vibration control) and electric distribution to holistically achieve the desired sonic result. AND... you have to know the sonic result that you desire before you even start to assemble that system! What type of music do you enjoy? What volume levels? As reviewer Jonathan Valin describes...is one a "Fidelity to the master tape" listener, and "Absolute sound" listener, or a "Beauty of sound" listener. I know that I have achieved the "Fidelity to master tape" sound as the goal that I had set for my main system. I simply want to hear what was recorded, how it was recorded, and where it was recorded. I want to hear that recording "warts 'n all". I only wish that I could have assembled a system like I enjoy for $100K. That doesn't even cover the real estate, design, and construction cost of my listening room. So when a product comes along that is priced no more than a meal with my wife at a fine restaurant, a product that elevates the enjoyment and immersion of my passion, music, to an unheard of level of refinement, I had to share my discovery with others. If they can't hear the difference, or worse, are too skeptical to try it, and judge the result for themselves, that is their loss. It is also a shame. It is unfortunate that there are so many music lovers and audio hobbyists that will never be able to hear what is capable in the art of sound reproduction. |
