I thought the Tenor Hybrid 300 and the EAR Hybrid were the hit of the show. Both companies are seemingly on to something; both sound much more like real music than any other amps I have heard and I have heard a great number of them. The EAR is an integrated at 100/100 watts per channel. The retail price is around $3600; I dont know what the Tenor 150 sells for but my guess it is considerably more. |
Jim2, glad the size of the presentation of your Merlins is large enough for your tastes. Most of us prefer something closer to realistic size.......I'll stand by my comment as think the 20K could be better spent on full range speakers than a new amplifier......My speakers are not much larger than your Merlins BTW and they only go to the mid thirties, but have a closer to full sized presentation than your Merlins which are, of course, tonally accurate to 30hz...... |
Brooks, in case you are not aware and to put his comments into perspective, Crump makes big solid state amps/preamps. In my opinion his advice about your speakers is way off the mark. But Bob is a big speaker/solid state kind of guy. Not my cup o' tea...
30hz and tonally accurate is "full range" enough for me. |
This thread is a great example of how well these forums can work. Every one of you has given me a little different perspective, related experience that would be impractical/near impossible for me to get on my own, and offered me excellent advice. It is very cool that a common interest can get a bunch of kind, intelligent people to help an unknown guy, across the county, make a difficult decision. Here it is: Even though my VTLs are crated in CA. ready to go to a dealer as a trade, I am going to have them shipped to my house. I will fire them up for a few months while I listen to the Merlins with all of the amps suggested - The Hybrid, the OTL, the Joules, and I will listen to the Berning. I still cannot believe that a 10lb shoe box sized amp can be in the same league. With that reputation, I want to hear it. Then, if I choose the hybrid (assuming a weaker dollar), I will just have to suck up the price increase. Such is the opportunity cost of a molases moving audiophile. However, when the decision is made, I will definately know which amp is the right one and not be thinking about what the other ones might have been like. This really minimizes the risk of another sale at a loss. Thank you all for your help. |
Hello Mike, I'm truly and honestly very happy for you and that to your ears you find the hybrids that much better than the OTL's. Now as strong as you feel the hybrids are better then the OTL's, I feel the exact opposite. In all the aspects that I find most important to me I found the OTL's to be superior. To be honest it wasn't even close to my ears. The one thing that we do agree on is that they do sound different. There for it is possible for people to disagree on which sounds better to them. I would sincerely hate to see somebody spend their hard earned money on my advice or others and be disappointed and lose a significant amount of money on a resale. So please, Brooks or anybody else, find a way to audition the gear in question and let your ears decide. Best wishes to all! Tom |
Brooks, as a previous owner of the Tenor OTL's and a current Tenor 300 watt Hybrid owner to me there is no doubt that as much as loved the Tenor OTL's, the Hybrids do pretty much everything better. and this is on the Kharma Exquisites (an easy load) in a small room (spl's are not excessive).
over the last 2 years i had heard the Tenor OTL's on many different speakers and compared to many different amps.....so as my reference i was very clear on how it stacked up. the Hybrids are not only much better than my personal reference but will work on pretty much any speaker......so if you do go to another speaker that does present a more difficult load the Tenor Hybrids should be fully up to the task.
your dilemma is understandable. due to very limited supply the Hybrids are really not availible for an in-home demo. there are just not many sets of these amps out there yet. the Crumpster isn't wrong.....but you will most likely run into the same issue there.....how can you home demo most really top 'full-range' speakers that would be a big step up over your Merlins?
so you are back to the question of whether the Tenor Hybrids are enough of a 'step-up' over the VTL's to justify the purchase without trying them in your system first.
assuming that the Tenor 150 Stereo amp is on par sonically with the 300 watt mono version (and i understand that they do sound the same), the hybrids do make as much sense as any other similar investment you could make in your system.
additional note; i was very skeptical about the Tenor Hybrids. i expected to prefer my OTL's. even after i heard them in San Francisco at the Stereophile Show last June where they were clearly better......i was skeptical that other issues might have been involved. when i finally got them in my room in August it took about 10 seconds before it was totally clear that these amps were simply in another league compared to anything else.
good luck. |
If I were you I would put your money towards a more full range set of speakers and forget the amps for now as the VTL will get you down the road in fine style.....What is the nonsense about a restocking fee? You are auditioning a production amplifier, not custom goods........ |
In one of tenor's ads. they offer in home auditioning. Have you contacted tenor? |
Hello Brooks, I would not commit to the purchase until I got to hear the amp in my system. I recently heard the Tenor OTL's and the mono Tenor hybrid's and heard a lot more music coming out of the OTL's. Please let your ears be the judge. Good luck, Tom |
I would like to offer a somewhat contrarian view. Please keep in mind that I have only heard the Tenors at shows and not in my home. First, the Tenor 75 watt OTL is a very special amplifier from the mid bass through the treble. Unfortunately somewhat underpowered for my current speakers. The bass is good but more akin to what one might expect from a tubed amplifier than solid state/high current, lacking some control and extension but very organic. The hybrids clearly have different and most would say better bass, better controlled with greater focus and slam. They also have better dynamics at the loud end of the spectrum. What they lack for me is the extreme textural and timbral dexterity that the Tenor 75's exhibit. They also exhibit some discontinuity between the bass and the remainder of the frequency spectrum.
If you need the extra power, I would suggest listening to the latest version of the Lamm hybrids which I thonk are excellent. Mike and Nellie at Audio Federation have these on demo and have listened to them with a wide variety of different speakers and can talk knowledgeably about them as well as the Edge products.
Good listening. |
Zaikesman & Samuel,
Thank you for the thoughtful recommendations. I was referred to a very nice guy in Ohio who inivited me over to listen to his Tenors. However, he does have new Meitner gear and Kharmas. So, I may end up with quite unrealistic expectations. I think the suggestion of a return policy with a restocking fee is great idea. I am very comfortable with that. I have bought many pieces of equipment with that possibility. I kept all of them. I am surprised that I had not thought to make that request. Thank you for the idea, Zaikesman. Samuel, you are right. I really do need to hear the amp in my room with my stuff. It was very kind of you guys to take the time to help. Thank you. |
I have owned the Tenor 75 OTL's, and have listened with the Tenor Hybrid monos in different contexts, albeit within show systems. The Hybrids seem to offer far great power handling, yet retain the purity and resolution that made the OTL's magic. The Hybrids and OTL's are in the rare class of amplification that (in my experience) reproduces sound with the fundamental harmonic elements critical to listening involvement--tone, texture, timing, dynamics--balance.
The issue with the OTL's was one of sheer power output, which has been addressed within the Hybrids-- making them far more speaker friendly. If the principles at Tenor used the OTL's as a design reference, then it is sure that the Hybrids--whether stereo or mono, have those most salient musical characteristics. If their performance at the San Fransico and CES shows is any indication,Tenor has a winner on their hands.
I now own and enjoy the Atmasphere MA2 mk2.3 monos (better match with low impedance speakers), but still have a great affinity for the Tenor's extreme textural and timbrel dexterity, displayed in spades at this years CES exhibit.
Zaikesman offers the best advice. Seek out direct experience within your own system and make a buying decision according to system synergy and personal preference.
In terms of asking for comparative impressions, I think it unwise to put stock in forum-bred opinion --even mine :). There is simply too much bandwith used up with touting favorites and product-plugging on this and other forums. It is best to seek out your own experience when contemplating this kind of expenditure.
Personally, I tested multiple SUV's and studied specifics before laying out SUV type cash. Audio systems are even more context sensitive than SUV's yet cost about the same --or more. Use your own judgement when matching amps to speakers. |
If you have the resources to risk buying something like this sound unheard, then you have the resources to travel to audition it. Alternatively, if you are buying from a dealer who is that sure you will be blown away and consider the increase well worth it, then he should be willing to let you audition at home and return for refund less some relatively nominal forfeiture of deposit as long as you pick up the shipping/insurance if you decide against keeping. Then again, for a sale like this, maybe the dealer should offer to come and install for you at no charge, with you picking up that tab only if you decide to send the amp back with him.
As far as the amps themselves go, I haven't heard any Tenors, but have heard the 450's (and own the 185's), and while they're very good, I do think there is room left for improvement. What you should switch to in order to attain that improvement, and at what price, is your question to answer, preferably with your own ears. |
what sonic characteristic or characteristics are you currently wishing to improve upon with the change? |
