The room and setup at shows are not very relevant. Rooms and implementations are often not very good, even in high end rooms, and do much better in good home integrations.
Tektons remain around the best speakers you get for the money, amongst few others. A friend of mine just got his Pendragons, and expectations are fullfilled.
However, I dont know what model you have been thinking about, but in my long experience, (Sonus Faber, Proac, B&W, Tannoy, JBL, and more) the best performance/beauty/price ratio speakers in the world today are the XTZ Divine Alpha, without any personal doubt.
Thank You for taking the time to give us more info about the positive feedback room.
I personally haven't been to any audio show in several yrs,I used to go all the time,but that doesn't mean that I don't like reading about them.
I know it can be a very hard and demanding job to get good sound out of some of those small rooms and especially when you have multiple speakers and or components to switch around.
Looking forward to a complete review of the DI's, maybe you could inform us here on audiogon when published.
Over the years I have attended a number of audio shows and I have always enjoyed them. The one thing that never changes is that the manufacturer of the speaker, amplifier, turntable, processor or whatever piece of equipment you discuss absolutely has to make certain that their equipment is at its very best if they want to favorably impress people who attend the show. The whole purpose of demoing equipment at these shows is to further the marketing of the product -if the manufacturer doesn't take every possible measure to maximize that goal, shame on them. At best, these audio shows are fun to attend and listen to the available equipment. I really don't think, however, they provide a good way to compare and make purchasing decisions regarding speakers, amplifiers or any other piece of equipment. The vast number of variables including, but not limited to, the effort put into, or lacking, in the setup of the system makes comparisons of equipment somewhat unreliable. Fun but probably not a reliable way to make a purchasing decision.
Thanks to everyone who attended the show and visited the Positive Feedback - Getting Started room (Suite 533). Glad most of you enjoyed your time there. As someone already mentioned, our choice of equipment to setup and music to play was almost 100% by request. We swapped speakers over 30 times per day, and electronics almost as often.
We tried to be as clear as possible that we were not representing any of the manufacturers. Our display was more of an educational room, or at least an opportunity to experience lower cost systems in a show environment. We had nine sets of speakers, five integrated amps, one preamp/power amp combination. four turntables, two music servers (PC based) three record washers, and a bunch of DACs and accessories.
One person commented on the center seat second row sounding better, and that was the seat we positioned everything and tuned the speaker positioning for. The Double Impacts were a difficult fit in that room, and we positioned them for the best compromise between overall tonality, bass response and imaging. We played a Flaming Lips LP during setup, and the bass resonated with the furniture on the opposite wall so badly that some things shook off onto the floor. If you looked, you would have seen several bed pillows jammed between the dresser and the wall to damp that out.
Maybe some people were too shy to ask, but we tried to make it clear we would swap gear out as requested, and even set appointment times to have certain combination ready when people returned.
Someone also mentioned they were told the speakers weren't broken in. Not sure who said that. I did virtually all the demos all three days, and except for mentioning once that an amplifier had been turned off and needed a few minutes to warm up, never mentioned break-in or warm-up about any piece in the room.
I have those Double Impacts at home now, and will be reviewing them for Positive Feedback down the road a little.
The Schiit Freya / Vidar combo may be low priced, but we also used them with the Maggie .7 speakers, and the folks from Magnepan checked our setup out and felt we had superb sound with their speakers and the Schiit electronics.
We had a blast the whole show. We were standing room only the entire time. I really enjoyed not having a set playlist, instead playing music from Tidal HiFi or my Server based on whatever people wanted to hear. Probably the only room at the show that played Diana Krall, Black Sabbath, Sublime and Enya on the same day!
I appreciate the comments from everyone. We'll do this again, though a little differently, next year.
Steve Lefkowicz Senior Associate Editor Positive Feedback
Kenny, it is true, I am not a fan of yours. It's not your fault, it has more to do with the fact that a number of the long term Audiogoners whose posts I enjoyed reading have dropped off for whatever reasons and have been replaced by a different breed of cat. I also think life is too short for pettiness, so I removed the post. For what it's worth (if anything) I am the director of a large company and deal with hundreds of people in a very positive manner and this thing is a one off. Peace and enjoy your speakers.
I attended the show and made a point to seek out the Tekton room. When I arrived I discovered that it was the Positive Feedback room and that they were demoing various low cost speaker systems.
I asked them to set ip the DI's and they allowed me to take the sweet spot as they moved them into place. They sounded pretty good considering the small room and inexpensive electronics.
I have previously heard the DI's at my local dealer in a large dedicated room with low powered tube gear. The sound was lush and magical, Despite the low cost ($3k) of the speakers.
My favorite sound from the show was the Sanders speakers and amps. These were simply in a different league for "reasonably" priced gear in terms of imaging, speed, bass quality and midrange purity. Other standouts were the Harbeths (midrange purity) and the phenomenal Elac Andantes for $5k. I include my favorites so that you can judge what kind of sound I am drawn toward when appraising a system. At home I own large Maggies.
The Tektons really are something special, and I wish they would demo them more at shows.
@corelli: It's incredible how music can be such an amazing time-machine. Your post took me back 17 years to a very small restaurant in Girona, Espana, where I heard the Koln Concert for the first time. Had I been with my date, I probably would have asked her to marry me on the spot. Lucky for her, she wasn't there. :)
Kenny, given your love of piano, here is one that is much more off the beaten track (tracks 1, 4, and 8): In Search of the Miraculous, with music by Fazil Say, Alan Hovhaness, Vache Sharafyan, Siobhán Cleary, John Surman and Rabih Abou Khalil. And the Hilliard Ensemble.
Came to mind, since it is music in search of unity...which hopefully we will find in this thread. : )
You would'nt think so if you would have had his last personal attack directed at you instead of me.
I'm referring to the last removed one on this thread was only here for about 3 mins and sure not many saw it.
Now I'm a big boy and take about anything I just think is really no need for it on forums.
Everybody has their own opinions that I always do my best to respect when I may not agree and I do my best to not personally attack someone or their system.
Kenny, Glad you like it. This work is a sentimental favorite of mine that takes me back 30 some years ago to my undergrad days at Michigan. Seems like yesterday I was peering out the window of the undergrad library listening to that piece on a sunny fall afternoon. That music class, an art history class, and a physics of music class were among my favorites. None related directly to my major. Thank goodness I was "forced" to take such classes!
I went to the show to enjoy some very nice sound systems in the way I go to the Getty to enjoy a Monet. I can't afford the Monet and in all sincerity neither can I afford the vast majority of the systems on display. But like visiting the Getty it was a joy to hear some great music.
For clarity (no pun intended), Tekton was not at the show, formally. However, I discovered my favorite room, the Positive Feedback Getting Started Suite. I believe the name of the gentleman who was hosting the room was Steve Lefkowicz. Steve needed to point out several times that he was not a rep for these companies. The goal of the room was to show that you can start enjoying better sound for as little as $350 (Schiit Fulla 2 -$99 - with a pair of Audioengine A2+ powered speakers -$249). The most expensive being $6000. They had on display 2 sets of Tektons, the DI's and the Lore. The Maggie .7's and others that I don't recall. I sat for a long time as Steve would ask "what speaker would you like to listen to" and then go about moving the speakers around. Then he would make sure to ask the same person what music would they like to hear. He did a great job encouraging people to listen to different speakers with the music they were familiar with. Back to my original statement of this being my favorite room. Because of Steve demonstrating several pairs of speakers all within my budget, I left knowing that getting a better sound system was right around the corner.
Next door was TAD. They had a brand new production model of a monitor
for $12.5K. It’s not even listed on their website. Absolutely, stunning!
Those little speakers put out a very big, lusciously detailed sound. I
didn’t know that a small cabinet could put out such a full range sound
in fairly large room. Curiously, they were using a High Fidelity Reveal
power cable for their electronics.
@steakster , completely agree with you on these. They "wowed" me at AXPONA. Amazing loudspeaker. What did they demo for you? They demoed "I Was Made For Loving You" by Maria Mena. I never heard that artist or that song. But it is in heavy rotation at my place now :-)
Now I personally haven't been to any shows in quite awhile, It's unfortunate to hear about bad demonstrations on any product,and I'm not referring just Tekton speakers.
At the end of the day,It doesn't matter how good a product is, If a manufacturer cannot properly market and support their products they are doomed in the end.
Disclaimer,I'm not talking about anyone manufacturer in general I'm referring to all.
I've been this hobby for 31yrs and in that time I have seen quite a few one hit wonders come and go and I'ts unfortunate because they had some unique products to offer but they didn't support them.
Take a look at the manufacturers that have been around a long time and that tells the tale.
Granny, Thank You for your wisdom in keeping some sense on this thread gone astray.
Jetter, I'm gonna ask you again, Give us something positive to read and maybe tell us something you are passionate about rather than your silly analysis.
I read about this speaker and other owners at numerous other sites plus contacted several respected and experienced Aphiles, like myself, directly. My eyes are not shut. Owners are really selling off highly reviewed speakers costing over $15,000 for these. Owners that are audio educated and well experienced, The builder is an innovative individual with some fresh ideas that will indeed benefit us all in this hobby/passion.
Fact is there are lots of people on multiple sites that are singing praises about the DIs. I think the idea that we have any business interest in Tekton is unfounded. i will say that with the show impressions I have read stating that dynamics were lacking definitely points to a bad setup or system synergy. Not saying they will be every ones cup of tea but their strong dynamics is undeniable in my room with tube or ss.
I tried the Freya preamp with my Double Impacts a few months back, and was not impressed. It sounded okay, but nothing special. The tube buffer stage was quite noisy through the DI's. Going to a better preamp made a huge difference in the sound. Tekton needs a better setup to show off their wares.
Nick, PM me when you get them in and they have settled-in. I'm really curious about your impressions. For me, it was between Spatial and Pure Audio Project Trio15 Voxativ.
"In a dedicated Tekton room with different components, they would probably sound great. I just couldn't get past the way they sounded in that room."
I do think the Tektons are good speakers based on the feedback from quite a number of people in various threads, including yourself. Ironically, if I hadn't heard them at LAAS, I may have ordered them without listening to them first.
As it is, on Monday after the show, I ordered the Spatial Hologram M3 Turbo S and am anxiously awaiting delivery.
@grannyring : And I agree with you as well. And your points are spot on. However, many manufacturers, and distributors and dealers who do have experience setting up gear and have a significant stake in making sure their products sound good, have very mixed results in terms of how they 'get rated' sound quality wise.
If a speaker sounds good in your system; If a speaker sounds good at your friend's home; If it sounds good in a dealer setup; And if it sounds bad in a hotel room; Does that make it a bad speaker. I'm saying it does not. And I'm also saying that its a mistake to make comparative decisions based on listening sessions at a show.
That doesn't mean you are not going to be happy with that choice. As you say the Acoustic Zen Crescendos were a terrific choice for you.
But would you have purchased them if they didn't sound good at both shows?
To me, they are a very good speaker irrespective of their performance at shows.
I've been interested in two of the speakers you mention liking at the show - ELAC and Spatial Audio. In fact I nearly purchased the Spatial Audio M3 Turbo S, and I still may in the future. But you've confirmed what I've been trying to say, which is that some speakers will sound good at the shows and others will not. And this generally doesn't correlate with the speaker (in this case) being good or not. As I stated in my previous post, it is a better assessment of who got it right in terms of setup.
Shows are a great place to start and widdle down a list of potential speakers. I purchased my AZ Crescendo speakers based on how great they sounded at two different Expona shows. Why even bother going to shows if they are of no help? Shows are important to me and many others. It is the responsibility of the manufacturer to make sure the gear sounds good. Never use brand new speakers with no burn in time etc...A builder should not bother to show a given product if they sense it will be paired incorrectly or set up in a rushed fashion.
Honestly the DI speaker is getting attention right now and seems to be a tremendously exciting new product. Now is no time for mediocre showing or debuting. Now is the time to exceed expectations and take the show/industry by storm. Huge missed opportunity from the point of view of this marketer. If his line of speakers is as untouchable as many claim in terms of value and innovation, and I happen to think they may well be, then please market them in a fashion they deserve. Perhaps Tekton needs some help as they are on the crossroads of experiencing something very, very special and successful or ...... not.
I respectfully disagree. I was in 3 other rooms at the show where the speakers I was interested in sounded great - the Mark Audio SOTA, the ELAC Adante and Spatial Audio room. Granted, some were being driven by components that I could not afford, but I realized that I was hearing what those speakers 'could' do.
It may be useless for you but it was not useless for me
My point, as I believe, other posters in this very thread have made absolutely clear is that feedback from a show is absolutely useless with respect to one component. Do you hear one positive report in this thread regarding the DIs from the LA show??? The only one I heard was from Eric himself, and that wasn't even first party...That was Positive Feedback self reporting on their own room. Did you expect any different?
Yet there are any number of satisfied owners of the DIs, most of whom compared them with comparable to much higher priced products and most of whom have decades of experience in this wild hobby of ours. And there are some who decided against keeping the DIs, whose reasoning and choices are equally valid. Those are the 'show reports' I would trust. Kenny (@kdude66) was being funny, but sometimes funny is also spot on. And he was!
AT BEST, in my opinion, all one can surmise is who did a better job at setting up their room, and that is it. There are so many factors that get in the way of hearing a pair of speakers, within the system they have been set up in, to sound right for the random listener walking in for an audition.
Having said all of that, and despite it, I truly hope there were attendees at the show that will be able to provide you the pros and cons you are looking for.
Another way to put it is that you are asking for the right information, but.........if you have to go to a hotel..... :)
In response to poster david ten I have DI's ,I think they are great speakers. I wanted to hear from others because I never get tired of hearing pro or con about the DI,s I realize no speaker is for everyone so my question to you is why do you have a problem with it.Products like the Di,s are great for our hobby,it makes High -End affordable for people that can't afford mega buck speakers. I love the Penguins and the Steelers tune in to all the sports shows to hear what others think of my beloved teams pro or con what's wrong with that?
I attended the LA Audio Show this past weekend specifically to listen to the Double Impacts and the Spatials.
The room and the equipment used to demo the Double Impacts did not do them any justice and I could not pull the trigger based on my listening experience. The room was hosted by Positive Feedback and they were showcasing low cost, high value systems so there were multiple speakers and components. For the Double Impacts, they were using a Schiit Freya preamp and a Schiit pre-production amp.
Very unfortunate as I really wanted to like the Double Impacts. I was able to sit in the designated sweet spot while listening. In a dedicated Tekton room with different components, they would probably sound great. I just couldn't get past the way they sounded in that room.
There was a report on another forum of someone who heard the Tektons at the show. He wasn't impressed and figured it was a bad setup. Must not have been a good room for that speaker.
@pts. It was a dealer demo. From what I recall he was demoing Elac speakers. The Tekton's were sitting off to the side wall. I asked if they were planning on playing the Tekton's at some point but the assistant who was there said she wasn't sure. Too bad, would have liked to hear them.
@aolprodj : Realize you are looking for feedback on listening at a show, ... and please don't take this as being difficult because I love the Double Impacts and would be happy if there were raves about them at the LA show....but I would think it would be the worst place to get feedback about them or any speaker?
Year after year, and show after show reports clearly go through a who's been GOOD and who's been BAD list. But I never see Santa Claus at the shows.
Perhaps I'm wrong about this and missing something entirely. Can you elaborate on what you are looking for and want to learn?
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