I have dedicated audio room 14.5x20.5x9 ft. Currently have Marantz Reference CD/Intergrated paired to Magnepan 1.7's with REL T-7 subs. For the vast majority of music I love this system. The only nit pick is that it is lacking/limited in covering say below 35 hz or so. For the first time actually buzzed the panel with an organ sacd. Bummer. Thought of upgrading subs to rythmicks but then I will need to high pass the 1.7's. Really don't want to deal with that approach.
Enter the Double Impacts. Many interesting things here. Would certainly have a different set of strengths here. Dynamics, claimed bottom octave coverage in one package, suspect a good match to current electronics.
I've read all the threads here so we do not need to rehash that. Just wondering if others out there have FIRST HAND experience with these or other Tekton speakers
Thanks so very much to Al, Kenny, and all the rest who are responding so promptly to my posts about the Brilliance, various First Watt amps, and Placette audios preamp and amp.
fyi: Guy Hammel told me that the preamp section he made for me is the audio equivilant of his preamp minus the various inputs and controls. So perhaps I misspoke when I described the gain as "slight." To control the preamp, I use his Placette passive line stage.
I compared the F-3 with the J-2 feeding my Tekton Design Brilliance speakers and honestly found an improvement in clarity usng the F-3's. The j-2' currently feeds a pair of d'Appolito MTM's that Eric built for me many years ago. It's less efficient than my Brilliance and suits that design well.
As you may have noticed, I've recently started a separate thread for the Brilliance speakers and I bet my posts belong on that thread rather on one devoted to the DI's.
Thanks for the amp recommendations. I'll keep them on my computer and try them out at some future date.
Meanwhile, I'll be describing my experience with the Brilliance at some later date. Thanks again to all who a music fanatic with idiosyncratic musical tastes. Tekton design fits my needs to a T I'm sure you move up the quality scale as you increase price. I'd love to discuss the way in which all of you have your Tekon speakers set up. Near field? Small or large rooms? toe in? etc.
Again, thank all of you for your help. Please forgive any posts I may have ignored. This thread is coming up fast and furious on my laptop.
Mazikrav, if the Guy Hammel preamp/buffer stage you referred to is this model, or is something similar in its impedance characteristics, it would certainly provide excellent impedance compatibility with just about any amplifier in existence. As well as with most source components, aside for certain tube-based models.
But if it provides just a tiny bit of gain as you mentioned you still would not be able to drive many amps to their maximum power capability when listening to LPs. If you were to go to a significantly more powerful amp than the F3, though, the amp itself would **probably** provide enough additional gain for that to not matter, as it would probably put out enough power anyway. Generally speaking there is a **loose** correlation between the gains of various amplifiers and their maximum power capabilities.
The F7 and many of the other higher powered First Watt models may be exceptions to that, however, because a downside of their minimalist signal paths is unusually low gain relative to their power ratings. For example, the F7 has a specified gain of only 14 db, while like most Pass Labs amps the XA30.8 which Kenny mentioned has a gain of 26 db. That means the F7 would require four times as much input voltage as the XA30.8 to provide a given amount of output power. That can be a significant issue in many cases involving the combination of a vinyl source and a passive preamp, or a passive preamp plus a buffer stage providing minimal gain. And the fact that the sensitivity of the Brilliance is about 5 db less than that of the DI just adds to the potential significance of that issue.
When you develop a short list of potential amplifier candidates, let us know and this issue can be looked at more specifically.
Al does bring up some solid concerns with your pairings but I remember you mentioning before the add on to your preamp.
I personally never have liked any of the different passive preamps that I have tried and much prefer a lwr gain active preamp.
I found the J2 to have more clarity than the F3 in my system and my ears.
If you are wanting to stay in the pass family of amps you might look at the X30.8.It's big,heavy and runs hot but also sounds very good. I sold mine locally and I never heard it with my DI's though,I'ts a very good sounding amp I just went in a Diff. direction at the time.
Thank you, Al, Kenny and everyone: I noticed the same dynamics problem a couple of years ago. As a result, (I I neglected to mention )my Placette is now supplemented with Guy Hammel's preamp stage, which I think is a buffer with a tiny bit of gain. This greatly improved my dynamics. I anticipate that it corrected the impedence mismatch. Can you confirm if this is truly so? I'm a 77 year old non-techi.
I'm listening to my Brilliance speaker at the mid-point of a ten foot equilateral triangle. The listening room is open at the back and runs the full length of the house with a dining area and a kitchen behind my wife and my listening chairs. As I hear them now, these speakers must not be toe in directly at my listening area, but somewhere behind where I hear them for best results. I love the clarity of this arrangement and hear a great improvement with the F-3's over the J-2's The only limitation is when I listen to very high volume material at levels over a typical concert hall experience. I expect that the only way to get greater clarity at high volume would be to go to amps that are much higher power than the 10 watts class A per channel that my F-3's crank out. I don't anticipate that the added increase in quality at high volume would be worth the added price, but I keep watching Audiogon, Reno Hi-Fi, or other sites offer in used, reconditioned Pass Lab amps. I'm open to all of you for suggestions or reflections.
Mazikrav, the First Watt F3, F7, F1J, and F2J all have input impedances of only 10K, which seems kind of low for use in conjunction with a resistor-based passive preamp such as your Placette. Although the potential downside of that will depend in part on the output impedance characteristics of your source components, which I suspect are favorable in the case of your solid state Oppo, and probably also in the case of your Sound-Smith phono stage.
But if you are considering going to a different amp, and envision staying with the Placette, it would be prudent to choose an amp having a much higher input impedance, e.g. 47K or more.
Also, fyi, if your Sound-Smith "The Voice" cartridge is the model having a rated output of 2.12 mv, and if you are using one of Sound-Smith’s 43 db phono stages, you don’t have enough overall gain when using that source with the Placette to be able to drive the F3 (or the F7, or many other amps) to their maximum power capability, at least on the vast majority of recordings.
Just some points to be aware of as you decide how to proceed. Good luck. Regards, -- Al
you might want to try spikes or feet with your speakers. I don't know about the Ulfberhts but it definitely improves the sound of the DI's and other Tekton speakers. Without something filling those threaded holes bass escapes from them making them slightly boomy. I learned that by leaving the spikes out in order to position the speakers easier until I found the best location for them. When I told Eric I was doing that he said not to as I wouldn't get the proper bass response without the spikes and therefore wouldn't be able to position them properly. Screwed the spikes in and the bass was much better.....so as good as your Ulfberhts sound now they just might sound even better with those threaded holes filled.
Kenny, can you point me to a link on building your DIY amps? I am interested in a project like this. Your version of the f7 really is interesting to me. Thanks!
I'm glad to hear that you are enjoying your brilliance speakers,they are a interesting design for sure.
I used to own the F3,very nice amp but is a little light on bass and dynamics overall.You might want to look into the F7.
I don't recall your room size and how close you are to your speakers. I presently own the F7 and a Diy sit2 that is class a push pull that uses 2 pair of Nos Sony Vfet's a side making 40 watts into 4 ohm.Quite a unique amp.
The J2 is also a very good amp as well,great clarity and focus but can be a touch light in bass system dependent Offcourse.
Craig, I didn't use any feet/spikes/gliders on the Ulf's or the DI's. Just put them on the bare carpet. Eric did mention building a plinth for the Ulf's, but I have not heard anymore about it. I'm guessing that it's to raise the height of the speaker for correct listening position.
I did start a new thread on the Brilliance. I'll continue to lurk on the DI thread as well and look forward to meeing u in Utah one of these years. I assume that Eric will out us both when it's practical. So here's a question for members of this forum:
I'm using a First Watt F-3 amp. What (if any) improvement might I expect near field by up-ing to a higher powered amp?
@kdude66 - I have rolled in quite a few different tubes, right now I have NOS Amperex 12AT7's, I also like NOS Mullards. The VT99's have more gain in the Micro ZOTL. It's a very Tube friendly design when it comes to rolling.
I drilled holes in the Lexan top of the Micro ZOTL but Mark sells a pre drilled lid for $50.
i am still using the Micro ZOTL alone and wanted to get good break-in time on the DI's before making too many changes an once.
I have a set of Apogee Stages that I am going to be selling because I am going down to just a HT system and removing the 2 channel setup. I have been really slow to sell the Stages since they have almost no use on them and I LOVE the openness. I know the Stages are different than the Duetta, but did you feel the Sigmas sounded better than the Apogees?
I spoke to Eric on the SIgmas because I wanted a pair at the price he is selling them at but since I am going to just HT did not have a place to put them. I got the Impression from Eric that the Sigma sound was different than the DI/Hulfberht sound.
If you move to the DI you'll have to let us know how different the sound really is. Eric characterized the Sigma to be a 2 channel class A type speaker. Not 100% sure what that meant, but I took it to mean less dynamic (movie soundtracks) and more musical, but much music also requires dynamic attacks, so really not sure what to make of the sound difference.
@teajay - I can concur the 12AU7's in the Micro ZOTL work fine with a little less gain. Also i am using NOS Tung Sol VT99 with adapters replacing the 6SN7's and they sound wonderful
Very interesting thread! I too am a Tekton owner having bought Eric's Sigma OB's 9 mos. ago based almost entirely on Steve Guttenberg's review. I have consistently found his reviews to coincide closely with my experiences but buying any speakers without listening to them was out of character for me. I was pleasantly reassured when I received them and they performed just as Steve had described.
I had spent most of the last 15 yrs with Apogee Duetta Signatures (bipolar panel speakers for those not familiar).- dbx BX1 amp - CX1 preamp - Hsu Research subs and 2 different but similar dedicated listening rooms. Base panels on the Apogees required replacement about 10 yrs in and tensioning was a bit of a pain but I thoroughly enjoyed this system with very little alteration and loved the openess of the bipolars.
Before I moved from CA to CO in '13 I sold the Apogees, took the Hsu subs and have made do with B&W monitors and the subs for a couple of years, but I missed the bipolar sound! My search led to great reviews of Eric's Pendragons et al...then the Guttenberg review of Eric's Sigmas and his killer sale price of $1700 for the pair! That did it and I have to say I have the best sound I have ever enjoyed! Eric Alexander, thank you! ....but now the DI and these new ULF's! I can sense you're going to be into me for quite a stack before you're done with me! ;-) I'm looking forward to hearing more!
No, because the 901s were always on elevated stands, they avoided the dreaded canine addition.
On the other hand, have a pair of Maggies that were liberally anointed and they come with a can of Resolve liquid and a hand brush. After multiple treatments, they should be like new (LOL).
Seriously, as a lifelong audiophile, equipment that enters never leaves. Once a piece is drawn into the black hole, the only movement is to the other side of the hole -- the Goodwill...
Mike Kay (Audio Archon) who is a dealer for both LTA and Tekton has just added to his stable of wonderful lines the gear the preamp of David Berning. Mr. Berning shared with Mike that you can safely replace the pair of 12AT7's in the Micro-ZOTL with 12AU7's, which have less gain, but can offer wonderful sound changes with different brands of NOS tubes. Mike is finding that if you want to add both color and image density, without losing any dynamics/speed/transparency the change to the 12AU7's just might be what you might be after in your system. I have not had a chance to experiment yet, but I trust Mike's ears and am looking forward to try out my numerous NOS tubes to see what I can get in my system this weekend.
Did you use any mounting feet/dampers on the ULFs? Considering their weight wonder if this is helpful and, if so, what types of devices are appropriate.
Sorry to see that the DIs are going down in comparable quality.
Mac, I'll have to revise my original estimate of the DI's versus the Ulf's. Broken in, the DI's are only about 70% of the way to the Ulfberhts. Nothing really changed until I got to 30 hours on the speakers, then they gradually opened up. More detail, crystal clarity, no more "in your face" soundstage. Horns sound so smooth now, and drums have a wonderful punch to them that sounds just right. Vocals are a real treat with an almost ethereal quality to them. This caught me off guard with some of my old recordings which had never been very impressive in terms of the vocals. Now I am hearing what these guys could actually do.
And gosh, lpretiring, I’ve got a nice set of Bose 901s in the garage, hardly used and only 3 years young. Great holographic soundstage, not so much anything else...
Make sure one of your first listens is to the Gershwin: Rhapsody in Blue. This is easily the best recording of this standard -- by a long shot. Perfect for the NYP, Bernstein, and that pianist. If you're running a tube amp, let me know how the timbres sound.
I'll check it out Craig. Btw, I recieved the Bernstein 80 cd collection you recommended......man, what a sweetly packaged set it is. It will take me months to go through the collection and I look forward to it.
My 75 lb pit is a diva and thinks he's a lap dog too. How can one not love a loving dog in their lap?
The grills for the DIs were finally delivered yesterday.
I'm with you @mac48025 The grills look very nice and streamlined, but I've become accustomed to the non-grill look...it is also much softer since my DIs are gray. The pure black looks strong in the room.
Wish I didn't have to mount the grills because of the budding and growing 3 and a half year old audio dude. He's been telling me what he likes and doesn't like. Beth Orton, not so much. London Grammar, Yes, though he asked if it was a guy singing (Hannah Reid has a deeper voice). Trilok Gurtu a Lot! Calls it spooky music. Caught him bopping to Bass Drum Bone! Fantastic. :)
If you're looking for scary recorded "shots" check out the Telarc Wellington's Victory album (Beethoven) with 1) digital firework sounds so loud that 2) there is a warning on the label. Normal volume levels will cause immediate ear fatigue and destroy most tweeters.
The Telarc engineers got carried away, you see...
But my canine family knows about the big boxes and sleep behind them when the music is active. Their 'decoration' occurs when I am not looking. On those rare occasions when they have been caught, they were spanked.
But Cavaliers are not a dogsmart breed and do not remember this kind of correction for any length. They are about interpersonal relationships and lap dog love. And they are professionals in these two areas...
Yikes Craig! Thankfully my pit doesn't even notice my speakers or ever raise a leg in the house....but I can certainly see your need for grills now. Maybe a properly timed canon shot from the 1812 overture when your four legged friends raised their legs would scare the p*$$ out of them and save your subs from such humiliation :) In all seriousness, while I personally prefer speakers sans grills, I can appreciate the cleaner look with them.
Yes Jeffery, keep us posted on the Ulfberhts development. Now that they've broken in more how do the DI's and Ulfberhts compare?
Mac and Jeffery: My natural Cavalier Spaniels like nothing so much as to raise a leg on a speaker; BUT, what they really prefer are subs. Have got a 15" Hsu Research sub at the other place that has a multi-decorated, round grill that would not, I suspect, pass a health test. SO, I need the grills and, in any case, prefer that look over a large number of speakers -- no matter how impressive they might appear. Keep us apprised, Jeffery of the ULFs development as a number of us are interested.
Yep, I got grills with them. I don't think Eric likes to make grills, as they usually take months to show up. I need them to keep my cat's fur off the drivers. Dusting these monsters would be a chore! As for fireworks, I was playing John Wick through my Enzo's awhile back, and it sounded like I had a running gun-battle going on in my house. Surprised my neighbors didn't call the police.
Wow Jeffrey, that is awesome. I really liked the DI's so I can't wait to get mine. As a matter of fact, I think you should send me yours so I can confirm your findings :-)
🐸 green with envy here Jeffery. I can only imagine how amazing the Ulfberhts sound. I just might have to start saving and spring for a pair next year......by then Eric will probably have introduced 6 more new speakers!
Grills? That's sacrilegious Craig! Why hide all those drivers? ;)
The Ulfberhts have over 50 hours on them now, and they have really opened up. As good as they sounded at first, they are truly stunning now. Crystal clarity in the midrange, but no harshness. The bass on these speakers is fantastic. The soundstage has receded somewhat, it's at the point of being just right.
Bill, good for you. I also took a look at the review after Terry mentioned it and eventually found the website. It sounds like a good buy and an easy one to take a chance on. Looking forward to your impressions and experience with it.
I took the plunge. I believe the exchange is $832 with shipping included. Delivery supposedly within 2 weeks. I emailed back and forth with King himself several times before purchasing. Very courteous and responsive.
Thanks for the heads-up on that KingKo integrated review. I found the Steve Hoffman thread on it where the reviewing author gives yet more details. Supposedly it's a very good headphone amp too, that can do a great job with the Sennheiser HD600's, which is no easy task. Definitely not an after thought. I believe there were additional windings from the transformer to the headphone out, which would most likely make all of the difference. Possibly making this a tough standalone headphone amp to beat for the price.
Sounds like a wonderful little amp for very little money. Like you mentioned, supposedly easier to take it even further with inexpensive tube upgrades and adding a dedicated preamp, not that it's required to make it sound good.
I will most likely buy this amp to compare with some others as I continue to build my system around the DI'S.
If it pans out, the DI's with the KingKo amp might be the budget system to beat.
Is there anyone here who is interested in starting a separate thread discussing the Tekton Design Brilliance? We've had our pair for nine months.
They work so well with a First Watt F-3, a VPI Classic 2, a SoundSmith Voice Cartridge mated to a Sound-Smith preamp and an Oppo Universal Player. All of these feed to a passsive preamp by Placette.. I'd be interested in discussing all the options you DI fans have reviewed but with the Brilliance speakers.
Yes I'm awaiting to hear about the DI SE's and the mini's. Since I sold my Zu's over the weekend I will be shopping for replacements,no great hurry though.
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