iamasif,
The upgrade package consists of a clarity or solen bypass cap on the tweeter input cap and uses a much more heavy duty Janzen or erse coil on the 2nd order woofer crossover along with a little better grade internal wire.Mine were a upgraded pair already when I bought them but I have also upgraded further which is a whole another story.
Best of luck to you,
Kenny.
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@iamasif:
As Kenny says, your Emotiva has way, way enough power.
As for the centre channel integration with a different speaker, try it out and see if it works. Sometimes it does.
I don't know if you are only running 3.X or 5.X or more... BUT, I've been happy with 2.0 with the DIs. I have considered a Double Impact Centre, but I still have not finalized on it. You don't mention what you have for L/R speakers....perhaps Definitive also?
Once you have the Double Impacts in your system, I believe you will be able to answer these questions for yourself. With ease! : )
As for the upgrade, I went with it since it's cost is reasonable. Eric advises it based on the level of your overall system. In your case, perhaps the $300 could be applied elsewhere. I'd trust what Eric advises you.
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Thanks @davin_ten for your response.
I currently have 5.2 system Definitive Tech 8060 series (8060 powered towers, 8040 center and 8040 surround) with Pioneer SC65 AVR, this was my system for more than 5+ years, honestly to me my def.tech speakers with pioneer AVR sounded very good but something was missing, maybe a thought get into my mind that better equipment will sound good, maybe i want to experience this so I upgraded to XMC-1 preamp + power amp with Def.tech series.
XMC-1 a.k.a linux powered machine has lot of settings to play which when applied correctly will yield great results, even with XMC-1 + def.tech speakers i was not satisfied maybe its my room acoustics or i don’t have the technical knowledge to calibrate my system. Then I started looking for speakers (Paradigm, KEF, SVS, GoldenEar, Emotiva AirMotiv ...) I narrowed down couple of models from these brands but finally purchased Tekton DIs which I was not even aware a month ago.
Me too thinking of adding a DI center channel in couple of months but for now I want to use Def.Tech center channel which is 8-ohm, is there any harm in mix-match 4/8 ohm speaker.
Even with all new gear I still enjoy and like my Pioneer AVR/Def.tech speakers which I’ll be using in my living room.
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Charles,
What I have discovered in owning a variety of Set amps over the yrs is the c core or double c core transformers offer a extra amount of transparency allowing more and or better tone and harmonics,better overall clarity,better defined bass and dynamics and just a more engaging transparent toe tapping get lost in the music type of sound.The James,Hashimoto and Yamura transformers are very good as well but if I had a choice I would try to find a Amp that utilizes the c core type.
Offcourse this is all relative to being a good design,having a good strong pwr supply and of course a good set of tubes.
This is why I will always keep My Yamamoto A09s and I sold the rest.My ultimate goal is to have 2 very good systems at all times,a solid state setup and a tube setup.
Kenny.
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Kenny,
I’m not personally familiar with the Hashimoto but it has the reputation for being a very good output transformer . Israel Blume the owner/builder of Coincident feels quite strongly regarding the merits of double C core transformers. I suspect either is an excellent option in the hands of a talented amplifier builder.
As you acknowledge other factors concerning the amplifier design and implementation are important as well.
In regard to your comments about C core output transformers the attributes you ascribe to them I can attest to with my amplifier. #1 being "lost in the music type of sound ", yes indeed.
Charles |
"I’m not personally familiar with the Hashimoto but it has the reputation for being a very good output transformer." I own Hashimoto OPTs and interstage transformers. The OPTs are double C-core and are designed by former Sansui transformer engineer with over 50+ years of experience. Hashimoto doesn't believe in using silver or nickel in their transformers as they feel these metals do not sound natural. Only copper and Japanese steel are used. Hashimoto has excellent reputation and is on par with the best Japanese transformer manufacturers. |
teajay,
You've peeked my interest in the Micro as a preamp; a couple of questions if I may
What interconnects are you using between the Micro and the Triode or other amps you've run it with?
Have you had other 6sn7 or 12sn7 preamps that you can offer comparison impressions vis a vis the Micro?
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Hi Dracule1,
Thanks for the clarification of the Hashimoto output transformers. I was not aware of their construction but am well aware of their reputation. As I wrote above , Japanese double C core transformers are doing something very positive in my amplifier,.
Charles |
Dracula,
What Amp do you have that uses hashimoto transformers?
Kenny.
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Charles,
I know you have great love for your franks going 8 yrs. but have you had the chance to listen to the dynamo mk2.
Kenny.
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Kenny,
I haven't had an opportunity to hear the Coincident Dynamo amplifier.
Charles |
Hey facton,
Here's the answers to your questions:
1) I use MG silver ribbon IC's
2) I have had numerous preamps that use 6SN7 tubes, and have a large collection of NOS 6SN7, and none of them sound anything like the LTA Micro-ZOTL, so its the tubes plus the Berning ZOTL circuit. |
@iamasif: "....but for now I want to use Def.Tech center channel which is 8-ohm, is there any harm in mix-match 4/8 ohm speaker."
To your concern above, not at all. You may run into some volume issues which I believe your XMC-1 can adjust so that L/R/C are matched in terms of volume output.
The larger issue, I think, would be significant sound quality or sound signature differences across two different brands of speakers and their specific implementation.
I've used different Centers than my L/R speakers in the past, sometimes with good results. Your ears will let you know. : )
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Good to hear some feedback on C-core transformers. When I went to the Audio Note Kit site, their 34 C-core mono blocks looked interesting along with I believe their L4 preamp which used a triple c-core on its output. Not sure how important those are on the preamp output if using short interconnects. Any thoughts? There gear looks to be very well thought out with very high quality parts.
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Teajay,
The MZ2 is still amazing me as an integrated amp. Purity, clarity, blackest of backgrounds, amazing tone, very dynamic, amazing bass........what more could one want? Well.....maybe a tad bit more texture and air.....the meat on the bones you refer to. I'm currently using NOS 40's RCA 12SN7's with NOS 50's RCA 12AT7's. I have a pair each of NOS TungSol round plate and KenRad 12SN7's with a pair of NOS 40's Mullard 12AT7's on order. Any idea which of these might provide some of that meat on the bones? I'm sure the Mullards will add some of their famous warm tone. Any other tube suggestions would be appreciated. I figure I'll play around with tube rolling in the MZ2 until/if I get an amp. The Triode Lab 2A3 FFX seems like a winner to me, especially since it fits into my budget.
Thanks |
Mac,
I don't have my MZ2 yet I won't get it for 2 to 3 weeks.
I'm kinda like teajay,I have had a few really good 6sn7 based preamps and I have a pretty extensive collection of tubes,I will probably try my very favorite 6sn7 first and that is the Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z.These tubes are in current production and they are a little pricey but I found them to give the best sound overall to me and they are very quiet,I don't know how they will do in the MZ2 only one way to find out.
I will use rca 12at7's to start with they probably are the most neutral of the diff. ones I have.
For you the mullards might be the ticket.
Best of luck to you,
Kenny.
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Hey mac48025,
I'm laughing because you ordered some of the best sounding 6SN7's that were every created! I will be very curious what you think about the TungSols (are they the black glass 40's tube) which are my favorite in the Micro-ZOTL. If your KenRad tubes are the staggered plate version the amount of space and 3D imaging is fantastic.
Being as clear as I can be using the Micro-ZOTL by itself on the DI's is a wonderful match. No qualifiers at all. For my personal taste adding on the Triode Lab 2A3 is just the right amount of "frosting" on the sonic cake with the color and a little more meat on the bones it brings to the performance. |
Charles1dad, you're welcome. Hashimotos are relatively affordable compared to other ultra highend transformers and have sound that is competitive with any out there. |
Kenny, I bought my Hashimoto transformers for a custom amp project that can use both KT line of output tubes or 300B tubes in push pull parallel configuration. I also have Hashimoto interstage transformers so I wouldn't need coupling caps in my custom amp.
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Can anyone explain how the DI produces such great sound with those multiple tweeters right next to each other? I would think all the phase and interference problems would be audible. |
It has to do with the length of the soundwaves; since 6 of the tweeters are acting in the upper midrange frequency, they do not participate in the kind of tweeter range phase issues that others have complained about. Eric will provide you with specifics of this design and he is correct. |
Converter Update. After trying a number of DACs have found the ideal one for my set of DIs. It is an RME UCX that I had available as a unit no longer being used in the studio. Set up with its TotalMix computer interface, it provides readings of JRiver files that are startling realistic. In particular, it is superb at soundstage localization AND, just like the DIs, disentangles dense textures (such as large orchestras) with great accuracy. If you run across a unit, give it a try. |
Dracula,
I can tell you the DI's are extremely coherent with no phase interference or resonant issues.I've down some frequency testing on mine with the proper equipment and I'm just amazed with the results.
They sound nothing like the average line array that require very complex crossovers,the DI's crossover is quite simple and I believe Eric has a real winner here,I can see keeping my pair for a long time and I'm a very picky fussy audiophile.I probably in time will buy a 2nd pair for my 2nd system,that's how good I think they are.
Even though I bought a upgraded pair I have upgraded mine further and I won't comment on that because It's Eric's patented design.
If you get a chance to listen to a pair I would highly recommend it.
Kenny.
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@craigl59: What other DACs did you try before finding the RME to meet your needs best? Thanks.
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An Oppo 105D (=Sabre32), an Emotiva XMC1 and Stealth D-1, and an Audient studio converter. Would have liked to try some of the Schiit products but they do not have remotes and, so, will not work in this installation. Someone on this forum recommended a product but, at $2500 it was out of my range. Also tried another RME converter, the UFX, and it was similarly excellent. One of the advantages of the RME connections is that TotalMix avoids any kind of Windows driver need and, so, provides a custom connection to the DAC that is controlled entirely by RME's architecture. Am using a wired remote to control the UCX and this is not ideal but, at least, works. Let me know if you have other candidates. |
Kenny: I, too, have done a number of REW measurements on the DIs and agree completely with your comments. Unfortunately I posted some of the results on another site and was overwhelmed with negative comments. Many pundits do not understand the nature of room acoustics as they affect speaker response. What shocked me was that the response at 20hz was dead on at 0db. This is better than the Hsu Research subwoofers I have tested. For my listening habits there is no need for a sub. |
Craig, A DAC that should be on your short list sells used for $1500 to $1900, the Exogal Comet Plus from the former Wadia crew, best digital volume solution and just sounds sensational. |
Kenny, I plan on having the DI for home audition. I just made a major purchase of another pair of speakers, so it won't be until later in the summer. BTW, without going into details about your mod to the DI, did you make further upgrade with better parts over the manufacturers upgrade or did you actually make changes in the crossover points? |
Teajay,
I believe all of the TungSol 12SN7 round plates are black glass.....or carbonized glass. But yes, mine will be black glass. I can't take any credit for ordering nice tubes, they were all suggestions from Andy at Vintage Tube Services. I'll have them tomorrow. Can't wait.
I can see where you are coming from regarding adding a SET amp for that little bit of extra tube magic. I could be quite happy sticking with just the MZ but at times yearn for that extra meat on the bones. Besides, getting a 2A3 amp gives me more opportunity for tube rolling and Andy has some super sweet NOS 40's RCA 2A3's just waiting for me :) |
Dracula,
Just better parts,no reason to change any crossover points they are exactly where they need to be as Eric designed them,that's the magic of this speaker.I only refined mine a little for personal preferences most people would never need to.
Kenny.
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Kenny, I figured you selected better parts to suit your preference. If I get my hands on DI, I would entertain installing Duelund caps and resistors and scatter wound inductors. |
Hi All.
Sorry to barge in on your discussion, but I am looking for help. I am confused.
I am convinced Eric has engineered something special with his latest range of speakers, regardless of price.
I am putting together my "final" (haha) post retirement system. I have bit at a time purchased some reasonably hi end components and had chosen and paid for ($20,000) a boutique but well reviewed pair of speakers. Unfortunately the manufacturer ran into difficulties and I'm not sure I will ever get my speakers from him.
Anyway due to my probable loss, I was convinced I was now going to have to compromise on speakers. Then I stumbled upon Tekton.
After reading numerous positive reviews from trustworthy people, I feel I may not have to lose out on speaker quality. As part of my retirement budget I have nearly completed a reasonable large dedicated music room.
I had a brief discussion (telephone) with Eric and had decided I would go with the 1812's.
However, then I came across this thread, and and from that confusion!!
All of you have been glowing with reports on the DI's and DI SE's, which is great because Eric told me the 1812's have everything the DI's have (sound quality wise) and then some.
Ok so how do the
Ulfberht's fit in? They are around the same price as the 1812's. I am only interested in stereo. Which should I buy?
I notice Eric chimes in on this thread from time to time. I would be very happy to get his opinion as well, if possible.
Graham |
Graham,
How big is your room?
What type of music do you like?
What equipment have yo purchased?
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Hi Corelli.
The room is approx 27' x 17' x10'
I have a pair of Halcro DM88 monoblock amps and matching DM8 preamp:
PS Audio DirectStream DAC: PS Audio DirectStream Memory Player: PS Audio P10 Power Regenerator: HiFi Racks Podium Reference rack: Teo Audio Liquid Cable IC's and Speaker Cables: QNAP TVS-1282T i7 NAS
All are still new in boxes waiting for my room to be finished. Oh! Cables are about to be ordered.
I am a ex 60's boy musically. Blues, folk, rock, bluegrass, cajun, some jazz, some country a little classical. Mad on Grateful Dead.
Love guitar based music eg Ry Cooder, John Hammond, Jerry Garcia, Leo Kottke...sorry, getting carried away here.
Graham |
I received my pair of DI’s without grills. I got a reply from Tekton that grills are in backlog and will take sometime to receive them. Meanwhile are there any cloth covers/socks available in market which I can use till I receive grills?
In my opinion these are big speakers, bigger and heavier than I expected. For convenience purpose instead of spikes can we use wheels, any ideas?
Very important question: Is there any break-in period for DIs?
I connected DI to my Emotiva Power amplifier/ XMC-1, my present listening position is at 10’ and i’m trying to set the levels for these towers. My radioshack SPL meter measures 80db at bottom db level (-12db) in XMC-1 (i’m using 75spl huss noise in XMC-1 to set levels and the range is -12db ~ +12db)
I am a newbie please correct me if i’m doing something wrong.
Thanks |
@iamasif:
I'm 2 months into my waiting period for the grills.
Soundocity was recommended to me by one of the regulars in this thread (sorry I have forgotten who specifically). They have a product with wheels.
Isolating the DIs will reap benefits. I had asked a similar question and there were many great options recommended by a number of regular posters in this thread. I'd search for Sistrum Soundocity Herbies etc within this thread.
In my experience, break-in wasn't very long. Give it a day or two. Others may have different opinions on this.
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@iamasif: Congratulations on getting your DIs and in system. Let us know your impressions once you have them setup and dialed in to your preferences.
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@deadfan23: Sometimes glitches can be a ’godsend’ : )
The only Tektons I have experienced personally are the DIs. Others on this thread have more exposure to Tekton Design offerings and I’m sure will be able to offer you good advice.
My room is approximately the same size as yours, and the DIs have no trouble at all.
I believe that you will be very happy with the DIs, BUT since this is a ’final’ system for you, it probably makes sense to push yourself further up Eric’s line. I had set aside up to 15K on speakers with an eye on trying not to exceed 12K. The DIs have allowed me to use the savings to enhance other parts of my system. I’m very thankful for this.
All the best with your choices.
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For immediate release
June 2nd 2017
Tekton Design LLC - we’ve completed the design phase of the patented Ulfberht loudspeaker and we’re absolutely thrilled to announce a forthcoming review by Terry London. Terry’s review pair are being produced now.
Eric Alexander - Designer
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Deadfan23,
The DI's are amazing and would work in your room but Eric's advise would be best to go on. I don't know of anyone that's actually heard the Ulfberhts but something tells me they will be out of this world. Since the Ulfberhts are from Eric's PMD line and labeled as the ultimate reference speaker I'd lean towards them over the 1812's but I'm sure there are things the 1812's can do better than the Ulfberhts for certain types of music and listening levels. I think Eric will be getting asked about the differences between the Ulfberhts and the 1812's. He will steer you in the right direction.
iamasif,
im using Herbie Audio giant threaded gliders with great success. They sure make moving the DI's much easier. |
Deadfan 23,
I agree that the DI's would be plenty of speaker for your room. Now as to which one would please you best--tough call.
You might be very wise to await Terry London's review of the Ulfbrecht if that is in your budget. Will it sound 4x as good as the DI's? No, but it certainly ought to do some things better given the cost difference. More effortless, even greater clarity, deeper soundstage--we shall see. But I do believe that the DI's will remain in the sweet spot on the performance/price curve of the Tekton line.
As for the 1812's, I don't have a clue. I have to believe they would sound different from the above two speakers as the driver configurations would have different appearing wave launches and dispersion patterns. One question I might have with the 1812's--can the woofer be placed against the front wall and the the other two arrays be brought out into the room to optimize bass extension (which probably is not a priority for you) while maintaining a great sound stage? I only bring this up because in my dedicated room I have the DI's 6 feet from the front wall. They sound great--but they do not go down to 20hz. Probably 32 would be my guess.
So far, Eric is the only one who has heard all three, so I'd be asking him very focused questions on the things that are important to you in a speaker. Good luck and keep us posted on what you find out.
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For immediate release
June 2nd 2017
Tekton Design LLC - we’ve completed the design phase of the patented Ulfberht loudspeaker....
Eric Alexander - Designer
------------------------
Hey Eric,
I’m loving my DIs, but I’m also excited about the Ulfberhts.
I don’t suppose you would consider offering any trade-in or trade up program for recent DI owner’s who need an excuse to upgrade?
Just think about it, because I am thinking hard about it. ;-) |
Thanks for the encouragement David, mac and corelli.
Nice sidestep Eric!! As suggested will wait (eagerly) on Terry London's upcoming review on the Ulfberhts before committing to either them or the 1812's.
I must admit I felt excited when I read Eric's description of the Ulfberhts on his website under
Details & Specifications:
Eric, how about an opinion from the source (you) as to your preference? Which in your opinion is the current flagship model?
Will the Ulfberts have walnut as a finish option?
Graham |
I have the Pendragons and they are the best Towers I have ever owned.Full range and sound good with Tubes or Sand amps.I drive them with either 2 Emotiva XPA100’s or a Primaluna Prologue 5 with KT88’s.I have some KT120’s for the Prologue 5 but have not rolled them in yet.I feed those amps thru a Schiit Audio Freya Tube Preamp.That purchase represented the most I have ever spent on stereo gear.I am a budget Audiophile I guess. |
Thanks @mac48025, @david_ten |
Hey Gentlemen,
It was almost two years ago, after I reviewed Eric's OB Sigma speakers, that he shared his great excitement with me that he believed he had created/discovered a break through, which finally lead to the DI's, and I would be the first professional reviewer to get a pair to evaluate his new design. I took this as a honor that he chose me because he trusted my opinion/honesty to report on his "baby" to my readers. I feel the same way regarding his decision to let me have the first crack at reviewing the Ulfberhts! I wrote in my review that the DI's are a "disruptive product" because they shatter the price vs performance ratio compared to any other speaker I know of on the market. My reference speaker of five and a half years which cost 19K were roundly out performed and now are in my secondary system.
So, am I some what excited to having the Ulfberthts in-house for review, you could say so! If Eric has built a speaker that takes the DI's performance profile to even a higher level this should be one fascinating listening/reviewing experience.
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@teajay Fantastic! The wait is going to be painful. : )
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@iamasif How are your listening sessions with the Double Impacts going?
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@david_ten - My listening room which is dedicated place for DIs is getting ready and will be done in next couple of weeks, for now I’ve placed DIs in main floor and its playing as-is without much fine tuning to the system, this is just to avoid rework of calibrating the system again in its dedicated room.
I must say even without much tuning to system/room acoustics the DIs are quite dynamic even at low/mid levels with much clarity which I never experienced earlier. Now I wonder how better a speaker (DIs) will sound after calibrating the system/room acoustics and how it will sound with an Analog system.
Just waiting for the work to be completed and meanwhile enjoying DIs as-is ! |
Iamasif,
the di's will improve with and every improvement made to components or room. Making a dedicated listening room really showed off what my DI's can do. As good as your DI's sound now, you'll be very pleased hearing them in your new room once you get them positioned properly and the room treated correctly. With all the bass they can put out I found installing floor to ceiling bass traps in each corner to be very beneficial. Good luck getting your room finished and take a towel with you to wipe off the ear to ear grin you'll have on your face when hearing them in it :)
teajay,
i dont know if I'll ever be able to afford the Ulfberhts but I very much look forward to your review of them. As good as the DI's are, and I find it difficult to believe anything could be a lot better, I believe the Ulfberhts are going to blow your mind. You were honored being the first person to review the DI's and Ulfberhts just as I was to own the first pair of DI's made.....wish I could say the same regarding the Ulfberhts!
i recieve my TungSol round plates and KenRad 12SN7's along with the 40's Mullard 12AT7's next Tuesday. I can't wait to try them in the MZ2 and share the results here. I'm sure I'll eventually get the Triode Labs 2A3 SET but I'm having too much fun driving the DI's with MZ2 right now. What a bargain combo....the $2k MZ2 with the $3k DI's........just add a source and you have audio nirvana! Thanks for the heads up on using the MZ2 as an integrated amp with the DI's.. |
