yeah. I was recommending the Ken-Rad's 6SN7GT/VT231 or Sylvania 6SN7GT as signal tubes. I think Raytheprinter was looking for some suggestions on that also.
Supratek Tubes and Tube Swappin' for Everybody
I will have a Supratek Chenin in my set up in a day or so. Since so many folks are rolling tubes around here I was hoping to garner a comprehensive list of everybodies favorite tube compliments. Be it NOS or NIB or WLATB (Whatever's layin around the basement)
Being that the "Deal of the Century" thread is a little more like a novel I figured this would be a good place to post questions and answers related to one subject of Supratek amps and pres.
On to the subject of me. I don't have immediate plans to swap tubes as I've figured that Mr. Maloney would supply us with something listenable for the break in period. But, since so many have reported such dramatic improvments I want to ask this question:
What is your favorite compliment for quietest gain and dynamics in the phono stage?
I will be using the Chenin exclusively for vinyl ( I don't have a CD player) and listen to loads of early rock and roll and Jazz bands, smaller jazz bands mostly, quartets and quintets. Some classical, the usual Beethoven and Mozart, but usually just a lot of loud garage rock.
Ok, now lets see what happens.
Being that the "Deal of the Century" thread is a little more like a novel I figured this would be a good place to post questions and answers related to one subject of Supratek amps and pres.
On to the subject of me. I don't have immediate plans to swap tubes as I've figured that Mr. Maloney would supply us with something listenable for the break in period. But, since so many have reported such dramatic improvments I want to ask this question:
What is your favorite compliment for quietest gain and dynamics in the phono stage?
I will be using the Chenin exclusively for vinyl ( I don't have a CD player) and listen to loads of early rock and roll and Jazz bands, smaller jazz bands mostly, quartets and quintets. Some classical, the usual Beethoven and Mozart, but usually just a lot of loud garage rock.
Ok, now lets see what happens.
225 responses Add your response
well,i have almost 2 weeks on the 6106,the rest of my tubes are stock,compared to the sovtek 5ar4,the 6106 is much clearer all around,better defined and tighter bass,much more enjoyable ,,,im not sure that its fully broken in yet,now to decide on which NOS to try for the 6sn7 and 5881,i like tight bass,WITH SOME WEIGHT,texture,truth of timbre,holographic imaging,no softening of notes,,and a little money left in my bank account,,open to sugg. |
Hello everyone, This is my first post on Audiogon. I've just written to Mick about NOS tubes for my Cortese (built in January 2005), and yes, he recommends the Bendix 6106 along with the Amperex/Siemens 6922s for the phono stage, "... a good 6922 will make a big difference" but also recommends caution, "... a lot of hype and many ignorant, if not dishonest vendors out there". |
I have asked Mike these questions: Can bendix 6106 be used in Chenin rectifier (line level and phono inputs)? Or maybe it can be used only when line level input are used, or not at all ? His answer: " The Bendix can be used in any Supratek, and is probably as good as you can get. The 6F6GT regulator tube can only be used in the line stage pres, and there are a few brands that dont seem very reliable -I'm recommending that if you want to experiment with regulator tubes the Sovtek KT66 is a good sub. " |
Hi Jazz. Unfortunately...My typing skills are zero,I never did learn to type, not to mention that I'm a "certified moron" on these damned computers.I type with "one finger". hehehehe.....Hell if the keyboard didn't have the letters marked on the keys I'd have no chance at all! Yes, you have probably noticed how much longer the 6106 takes to power up the preamp when compared to other rectifiers. It also seems to take the supratek longer to warm up sonically with the 6106 in it. Furthermore, the 6106 operates at a lot hotter temperature [by design] than any of the others. When it's removed and cools down, unfortunately you will have to wait another 30 to 40 minutes for it to optimize the preamp. Another interesting observation.....About 6 months ago... I replaced my old 6106 in the cortese with a brand new 6106 and it sounded just dreadful,imparted a glare to the preamp that was unbearable to listen to. To run it in I powered it up [24/7] for a couple of weeks in the power supply of the syrah [unattached] and it still sounded rather thin by comparison, but the glare was almost gone at about 100 hours. It took a total of nearly 300 hours for it to fully flesh out.I loaned it to another supratek user[syrah] and he loves it paired with the 6f6g's in the regulation position. Yes sir: the 6K6g is another small power pentode that is a very good alternative tube option for regulation duty in the suprateks, however.... these were all originally made in either metal envelopes,st bottles or short glass gt types... the only 6k6 that is any good in our preamps are the earlier bottle shaped G versions with the round plate internals. The 6K6 metals are no good, the 6k6gt's are better but the G versions are the tube of choice. Note: There are a lot of other small pentode tubes from that same family that we can substitute for regulation duty in our preamps. Most of this family of pentodes... like the 6f6,6L6,6K6,6U6,6v6,1621,5871 can be used for regulation duty in the supratek and many are very gound sounding valves when used as an output tube in a good amplifier. However.... most of them were originally designed in either metal envelopes or glass bottles. My experience with them..... stay with the bottle types as none of the metals sound very good. Another superb tube for regulation duty is the 1621. This tube was used in the amplifier of wurlitzer's top model jukes, as well as some early Western Electric amplifier circuits. |
Ecclectique - it is great to see you active on the thread again. I tried the 6106 in my preamp for a week and it was very good. It opened up a bit after the first 24 hours but I didn't notice much change after that. Are we dealin with a breakin issue or is it an operating temp problem? If you take your 6106 out and let it cool off, how long will it take to open up again when you put it back in? Is that the heater element in the middle of the 6106? Looks like they ran it through some ceramic. Maybe that attributes to some of this. On another note. I have some 6K6G on the way. Mick said they would work in the regulator position. The plate dissipation is real low so I am hoping for some magic. |
What makes you believe the 6106 is called upon to do the duty of a 5ar4 in the supratek, one could use the very same analogy by saying the 5ar4 has to do the same duty as the 5z4, gz33, gz34, gz37 as well as a host of others. All of these rectifiers are recommended by Mick Maloney himself. RE: tube life???All the redbank family of rectifiers were developed exclusively for the Top secret American Missile Program. Their build quality and durabilty are legendary, and second to none. My 6106 has been in active duty for more than a decade and still test above 100% on both sides. It replaced a Mullard gz34 in my stock Dynakit stereo 70 way back in the early 90's. Whether it will outlast a Mullard gz34 in a supratek? I rather doubt it though, as the original Mullard gz34 lasted more than 20 years in the Dyna. Who the hell knows? but who here really cares anyway? |
What about the tube that just hangs under the cover, not mounted to anything, with just the wires holding it in place, located under the bottom cover of the Merlots? If someone can instruct me how to transfer a photo from my C drive to this site, I'll be happy to share a few photos within a few days. For now, let's just say that I was "less than impressed". |
Whoopadeedoo - if you're using a Chardonnay, just disconnect your power supply from the line stage and turn on the power supply. That's all it takes to burn in the Bendix. I had mine running 24/7 for more than a week before it started to sound good. While I really love the Bendix and what it does, I can imagine cases where it will not suit every system and every listening preference. At one point, I recall being very drawn in to the Gold Lion KT66 / GZ34 fat base combo for delivering the most seductive and involving musical experience. When listening, I realized that everything (tonally) was somewhat incorrect but I found I listened longer to the system. |
I'll cook them a bit more. All three Bendix I have are NOS/NIB, so I'll give them a fair shake by burning them a couple weeks longer. For 6106 users, how long does the tube life last? When called to do 5AR4 duty, the life should be significantly shortened. For all intents and purposes, the 6106 is very much like the 5Y3 in electrical operation. Sure, it's indirectly heated and sound better then any 5Y3 I know, but it's still very similiar to a 5Y3 in regards to electrical function. Thus, I expect it to behave much like a 5Y3 in a 5AR4 application. It has nothing to do with the 6106 being the best 5Y3-type tube. It's still a 5Y3-type tube called to do 5AR4 duties. The analogy goes: throwing in a metal base GZ34 in to a 5U4G circuit doesn't mean it will perform well simply because the metal base GZ34 is the best of its kind. In any case, I'll give it more time. FWIW: I, too, don't think the 350B will likely cause any damage in Suprateks (although it can happen). |
Hi Gang. Whopadeedo. You stated "you preferr to run your gear with the tubes that were designed for it". Are you stating the spec for the rectification duty of your supratek is only rated for an gz34/ar4 and the 6106 doesn't meet spec? Your metal based gz34 is a fabulous rectifier to be sure[yes I have one] however, there are more than a dozen substitute rectifiers that will meet spec for rectification duty in your supratek.Please sir, don't interpret this post as being derogatory. Regarding regulation tubes....Mick recommends a max of 1.5 amps for heater current on the regulators. Well in the real world, that .1 amp draw for the heaters will fall well within the tolerance on any cuircuit designers paramaters if one is using regulator tubes to smooth the ripple of the rectifier, regardless of what type of rectification tube type used. The 6106 is rather unique in regard to run in time, as it requires a ton more burn in time than any other rectifier of it's type. The 6106 mated with the 350b's is any thing but lean in character regardless of the speaker used. I have auditioned your very own Merlin's in my own room and I would never ever consider it as sounding lean in character by any stretch, even in my rather large sound room [ 34ft x 27 ft x 12 ft ceiling] Great speakers by the way! I can remember responding to Bwhite's post as well as others regarding this very same issue in the original preamp of the century thread. If your 6106 was new out of the box, be rest assured; that 1 week of playing time isn't any where near enough run in time on the 6106. Furthermore... there is no better rectifier/regulator combo[6106/350] for any of the supratek preamps . Yes, the 6106 is closer in spec to a 5y3 than a gz34 however,it "isn't" a 5y3 and there isn't a 5y3 type rectifier on the planet that sounds anything at all like the 6106 in the supratek or any other gear for that matter. Your reply to Jazzdude regarding the 5y3 distorting sooner than a gz34 may indeed be correct. That said: a 5y3 type rectifier is NOT a 6106, and the 6106 will "not" distort sooner than my metal based gz34. It's the very same analogy as saying the metal based gz34 sounds better than a mullard, amperex, sylvania,phillips gz34. Patience my good man, give in more time[much more] you will surely be rewarded! |
Bwhite and Fiddler - my intent was only to bring the heater current issue to the attention of SupraTek owners at large. However they act on that info is up to the individual. We are talking about a small amount of power. Less than 1 extra watt DC for both heaters combined. But design specs normally exist for a reason. |
It's been about a week of burning in the 6106. It definitely sounds different then the GZ34, but not better in my system. I can only arrive at the conclusion that one's opinion of this configuration is very system specific. With my Art Audio Jotas and Merlin VSM, the 6106+350B combo was too lean. Swapping in my Audio Note speakers (inherently colored, full, warm speakers), the 6106+350B was better. I'm going back to my metal base GZ34. Besides the fact I prefer the sonics, I prefer to run my gear with tubes it's designed for. I've had transformers/power supplies (in other gear) damaged when substituting non-equivalents (e.g. ECC32 in 6SN7), so I have a inclination to play it safe these days. FYI: this damage is rarely immediately apparent, but rather it manifests itself over long durations (e.g. years). Just be careful when running your gear beyond tolerance. |
Jazzdude, before I ever tried the 350B, I emailed Mick and asked him if it was okay. He said it was okay and his only caution to me was to guard against unscrupulous tube dealers selling counterfeit 350B's. I have had no problem with my power supply that I know of and I have been using the 350B's for 1 1/2 to 2 years. BTW, I just got in two more 6106's and I got the music back. No doubt about in my Chardonnay. The bass is much tighter and the soundstage is incredibly more focused. The difference between the Mullard 5AR4 and the 6106 is rather dramatic. No going back for me. The 5AR4 has boomy bass and less defined edges all the way around compared to the 6106. But Bwhite may be correct in implying that there is a synergy between the 6106 and the 350Bs. |
Bummer. I'm going to remove my 350B's and go back to the Sovteks that the preamp came with. :) I don't know... is .1a extra heater current in a regulator really too much for the power supply to handle? I haven't heard of anyone having trouble with the 350B's and know quite a few people using them. The power supply problems I am aware of are caused mostly by fast starting - direct heated rectifiers. |
When I asked Mick about what tubes I could roll in the regulator position he said the heater voltage has to be 6.3v and the heater current can't be more than 1.5a. According to the western electric datasheet for the 350b it says the heater current is 1.6a. I recall someone in the "preamp deal of the century thread" said that using 350b's damaged their SupraTek powersupply. http://www.westernelectric.com/spec_sheets/350B.pdf Yall might want to check with Mick to see if the 350B is ok to use. I was interested in using the 350b myself but this kind of put me off a bit. |
Jazzdude, thanks for the post. Great feedback on the rectifier tubes. Keep that 6106 burning. I am not sure how long it takes to fully break in but once it does, its pretty amazing. However...it does not work well with all regulator tubes. I have not used the 6F6G so my experience with those and the 6106 is zilch. The 6106 works best with the 350B's. |
Here are my listening impressions of the 6106, GZ33, and GZ34 rectifiers in my system. These listening impressions were with the 6F6G in the regulator position. Beefy regulators with high plate dissipation may tend to reduce the audible differences between the rectifiers. In my system the differences between rectifiers were easily recognized. The Cabernet sounded great with all of the rectifiers I listened to. It all comes down to personal preference. 6106 - Some leanness from about 300hz on down. The rectifier WAS detailed and very good but gave up some pitch resolution in the bass compared to the GZ33. The 6106 required 24 hours continuous use before it even started to open up. GZ33 - The warmest of the 3 rectifiers in terms of freq response. Excellent low-level resolution. I've used this rectifier for about 18 months. The GZ33 required about 4 hours use before it opened up. GZ34 - This is the Amperex BugleBoy metal-base with double-getters. The measured freq response in my system was similar to the 6106. There was the same leanness from 300hz down. This rectifier gave me the highest resolution of the 3 rectifiers. It was very airy with excellent harmonics and the best pitch resolution in the bass. The GZ34 required about 4 hours use before it opened up. |
If any of you guys have a NOS Bendix 6106 that you have tried and don't like. I would be interested in purchasing it. Mine just died ! I turned my system on earlier today and let it warm up for about an hour and when I hit play....nothing. The tubes in the linestage were glowing, but the 6106 was cold. Just drop me an email and I will get back to you asap. Thanks in advance. PS - I've got to go back and see who I purchased this tube from. It was a retail tube seller and it was sold to me as NOS. The tube base looked really discolored when I got it (I know that doesn't always mean anything), but I bought this tube as NOS. It can't have more than 100 hours on it. Could have just been infant mortality or it could have been a used tube to begin with. |
I'll be a little while before using these, as my Sauvignon is brand new (today!), but for what it's worth Mick sent me these NOS tubes to play with: 6SN7GTA Australian-made by AWV "Super Radiotron". Black base. Italian Fivre 6F6GT NOS tubes. Black base. As soon as I get a chance I'll post some observations as I haven't seen these mentioned, nor have I seen these at any NOS tube dealers. |
Jazzdude, My mistake! It is a 7581 (GE with pink base). I made a typo on my post. ".... linestage only versions and the full-blown preamp with phonostage. SupraTek owners with the phonostages will have higher current requirements that will restrict the use of some of the lesser rectifiers and pentodes...." Exactly! This is the main reason why in the phono stage, the "chugging" sound was produced since the 6106 is basically a 5Y3GT isn't it? regards |
Amandarae - Are you sure that you are using the 7518 or is it the 7581? The 7518 only has a 2.5v heater and if that is what you are using you might want to get the fire extinguisher handy. You are right about different voltage requirements but the difference is mainly between the linestage only versions and the full-blown preamp with phonostage. SupraTek owners with the phonostages will have higher current requirements that will restrict the use of some of the lesser rectifiers and pentodes. Anyone who has a phonestage in their SupraTek preamp might want to check with Mick before rolling power-suppply tubes. |
I confirm the problem with the 6106 regulator when use for the Chenin. There is no problem on CD source. In fact you can crank up the volume to the max (no music playing) and you will not hear any hum at all or tube rush sound. Not for the phono section though! With the 6106 as a rectifier, using the same test method, there is a loud "chugging" sound when the volume pot reached about two O'clock. So for the Chardonnay, the 6106 will work without problem since the one that is affected is the phono section. I was using 6F6G on my Chenin. But I am now enjoying a GE 7518 as regulators. It adds a little "muscle" to the already superb phono section (not that I am complaining!). I like the RCA 6L6GC'a also. It seems to me, after reading a lot of comments and experiences about regulators and rectifiers, that the Syrah, Chenin, Chardonnay and the other preamps have a different voltage requirements. I think as far as the tube rolling issue is concern, the only tube that is "universally acceptable" based on others experienced to everybody is the 6SN7's for the Suprateks. The others vary and should be specific to each model only. I think.... |
Fiddler, IME, the Sylvania Bad Boys is comparitively "dry" sounding versus the Tung Sol's more liquid, "wet" sound. For clarification's sake, I am not using the adjective "dry" with any negative connotation. It's a matter of perference. I like the Bad Boys; they've got better control of attack and decay then the Tung Sols, and the Sylvania 6SN7GT '52 have more spatial seperate and thus sound slightly more resolved. The high frequencies have an uncanny air to them. However, the Tung Sols simply reproduces harmonics that is extremely beautiful to my ears .... a bit more full and palpable. And they sound more balanced from top to bottom. |
Bwhite, You bring up a good point that new Supratek owners should take notice of. The Suprateks are ridiculously sensitive to microphony (not a good thing). I really don't know a linestage preamp that is more sensitive. You essentially need phono-grade quality tubes for line-grade application. If I had a gripe about the Supratek design, this would be it. And for this reason I hate selling 6SN7 to Supratek owners. I agree the CV181 does not work in my preamp. I think you may have misread what I posted. It's a tube that I do not recommend (for the Supratek or for nearly all other 6SN7 applications). I have Ken Rads with identical base prints - down to the alphanumeric date codes - but clearly different builds (tin versus copper grid posts, different mica varients, etc.). There might be audible differences as you say (I still can't hear marginal differences myself, much less "dramatic" ones). Whether you or I believe there are sonic differences or not, base print is a virtually useless criteria. I also find the 350B midrange very neutral, which is what I love about this tube. In comparision, the EL34 and EL37 midrange is a touch bloomy and warm. The 350B sounds fast and accurate. It does not, however, sound powerful IME. There is a leaness to the presentation that (reminds me of KT66 tubes) compared to EL37 and 6L6 tubes. The 6F6 also has possesses this leaness, and it too is very fast (faster even) and "accurate" like the 350B. |
Hi Whoopadeedoo - I really don't want to argue about it so... I'll take your word for it, printing means nothing, the construction is the same, and they all sound the same and we'll leave it at that. How many KR's have I owned? I don't remember exactly but I have owned many. As I am sure you know, the ratio of good "pre-amp" quality 6SN7's (low microphonics / quiet) to not-so-good is relatively slim. Depending on the tube manufacturer/type/vintage, its often very difficult to find a nice vintage 6SN7 which is adequate for use in a line stage...Particularly the Supratek which is quite sensitive to tube quality. Having said that, for several years, I purchased numerous KR Black Glass tubes from various sources and maybe, at best, 1 in 10 tubes were quiet enough (no squeeks, no microphonics, no crackle) to even be considered as usable. Of the KR tubes I purchased during that time span, I kept about 20 (10 pair). Also during that time, I was cycling through various amplifiers, cables and digital components. I discovered that I could "tune" my system with the various "flavors" of the KR black glass tubes. Initiallly I didn't know they were sonically different but after swaping back and forth tubes and matching with various components, I soon realized that they were all similar but very different. Certain marked Ken Rads were totally unusable with certain component combinations while other KR's were seemingly perfect. Using the KR's in a line stage preamp produces a much different effect than in an amplifier. So for those people who use these tubes in amps and hope to obtain various sonic results, I don't know what to say because I would expect the results to be much more subtle and possibly less noticable in that application. It is when the tubes are used in a line stage - particularly the Supratek - that the difference in sound is obvious. The 6SN7GT marked Ken Rads are noticably dark, and rolled off. The VT231 marked tubes are the most even/neutral of the bunch, the NAVY tubes are far more extended in the highs than the other types...but still maintain the KR signature. Well.. your descriptions of the other tubes when used in a Supratek are weird, particularly the CV181 description. I know that CV181's do not work in Chardonnay and Syrah preamps (for whatever reason). The "midrange" on a 350B is more-or-less quite neutral. In fact, the 350B is oddly one of the least "involving" or romantic sounding tubes available when used as a regulator in the Supratek. Where it stands out and what makes it the best, is what seems to be the most brute force and blatant accuracy of all regulator tubes. Which may be why they do not float your boat -as you put it. You state you like what they did to the midrange and that makes me a bit curious as to what else is going on in your system that you'd identify the 350B as having a particular midrange quality (vs. everything else) in your system that was good. The 350B really comes into its own when used with a Bendix 6106. |
Fiddler - I'll give the 6106 a week at 24/7 and see how it does. The actual articulation of the notes from start to finish is fine and this is the most important thing. There is no question that it is a very good rectifier, but at this point it hasn't destroyed the competition. I have a dual-getter metal-base amperex bugle-boy gz34 that goes in after the 6106 The cabernet only uses a single triode out of the dual-triode 6SN7GT. The other triode used is the we101d. Which might explain a difference in bass output between my preamp and yours. I might give the tungs-sol round-plates a place in the hot socket one day. But for now I am working on finding the best rectifier and regulator. I am trying some alternative regulator tubes including the 6f6g and we'll see how it goes. One thing I can already say based upon my experiences. That is that the higher plate dissipation of the regulator will increase the operating point on the rectifier causing the signal tubes to distort more. So for the cleanest and most natural sound and highest resolution the 6f6g is going to smoke the 7581, 5881, el-37, kt-66, el-34, 6l6gc etc. And I am not really concerned with freq response for my system although I will note it. What I am after is the best execution of the note from start to finish and including the harmonics. I want maximum resolution of the music and for the preamp to still perform without a hint of strain. |
Interesting Jazzdude, I also run the Sylvania 6SN7GT 1952 "bass kings" in my Chardonnay and I have noticed no drop in bass performance with the 6106s. Actually, to the contrary. The bass quantity hasn't increased with the 6106s over the 5AR4/GZ34s, but the bass quality has improved. The bass seems tighter and more focused. Actually, everything is more focused. There was always a very slight fuzz that I couldn't find, but with the 6106 the notes are very crisp and clean. No more fuzz. When I first plugged the 6106s in months ago, I hated it. But with burn-in, it really transformed. Unlike the GZ33 & GZ37 which remained total dogs. Mick gave me a GZ32 to try, but it pop and crackled from day one so I took it out immediately. Jazzdude, a quick question. Have you compared the Tung Sol Round Plates to the '52 Sylvanias? If so, I would be really interested in your opinion of the two. I may try a pair of Tung Sols, but I am thrilled with the '52s. |
I just measured my system with Tact RCS. This is in-room response and no my room is not an anocheic chamber. Previous rectifier was a gz33. The current rectifier is a bendix 6106. Output below 300hz is reduced by a few db. There is a hump in response from 3-5khz by at least 2-3db. From about 8khz on up it just climbs a mountain. I am up at least 5-6db at 20khz. I can't consciously hear anything about 17khz but somehow I can percieve a 20khz test tone. |
I got the Bendix 6106 in the Cabernet. It is more than a little tipped-up. The bass is even less than that of the Sylvania Vt-231 with a gz34 or gz33 rectifier. And I have the Sylvania 6SN7GT 1952 tall-boys, which are well known for their bass, in the preamp right now. For example, when playing "poco a poco" performed by fourplay the drums are normally featured prominantly and there is a tension in the music between the bass section and the melody. With the 6106 the bass and drums become an accompanyment to the melody. What bass is present is at least well controlled but that has never been a problem in my system. I seem to have lost some pitch resolution in the bass also. For the rest of the audio spectrum the detail and resolution is very good, even excellent. There is a slight incoherence in the soundstage depth. Mainly due to the reduced bass output. So does the bass ever get bigger with the 6106 as it breaks in? |
Bwhite, How many of each "type" of KR have you auditioned? How can you rule out it wasn't a build quality issue due to a small sampling size? I've handled over a hundred of each type (just sold about 30 pairs of the Navy type in the last half year) and they sound the same to me as the other prints. Tell us how you feel about the 350B, 6F6, KT66, Metal Base GZ34 and CV181/ECC32. I think everyone would benefit from unique opinions. ------------------------ Jazzdude, The Tung Sol round plate is something special in all my applications (I have five gear that uses 6SN7s: Supratek, Audio Note, Korneff, Cary, and a Wheatfield headamp). It's always very open and smooth, with good linearity from top to bottom (no particular spectral emphasis unlike, for example, Ken Rads that emphasis bass). The Sylvania VT-231 are a bit more airy in the treble, but it lacks bass performance compared to the Tung Sol. The Syl VT-231 mids are also not quite as solid, although some might prefer its more delicate presentation. The RCA grey glass is a lot more euphonic and full sounding compared to the Tung Sol. RCA always romantizes the music in my systems, and I love it for that specific reason. |
Fiddler, Here it is http://www.tubeseller.com/index.html Shoot Mr. Malecki (Bob) an e-mail and if he finds a pair, he will contact you right away. All tubes he sells are tested and has a 30 day warranty (see homepage). I bought tubes from him and if he states "NOS", it is really NOS unlike the Ebay stuff. An honest professional guy in my experience and I can truly recommend his services. regards |
Whoopadeedoo. The differences in sound are dramatic. I am not the only person who has heard the differences. If you have a the three sets (6SN7, VT-231, and NAVY versions) give each a listen and if you cannot hear a difference, I'd be quite surprised. It doesn't take any particular or special "auditory acuity" to hear. I didn't want to get into it but your descriptions and sonic impressions of the other tubes (350B, 6F6G, KT66, Metal Base GZ34 and particularly the CV181) leave me puzzled too. |
Hi Bwhite, You've arrived at the erroneous conclusion that base prints mean something. They don't. It was not uncommon for base prints to be labelled months after the actual date of production, sometimes completely removed from the actual site of production (e.g. at distribution centers, where a lot of rebranding occurred). With the two notable exceptions of 5692 and W/WGT-suffixed tubes, there was no such thing as as a military-designed 6SN7 .... only different base prints for military-designATED 6SN7 (the US military used VT-231 as its numbering system, the British used CV1988, etc.). Yes, these tubes had to be made to milspec standards, but no, they weren't any different then their commercial-bound counterparts. There wasn't a factory churning out just military-designated tubes. Factories distributed the same exact tubes with different prints based on its intended destination. A Tung Sol 6SN7GT in commercial red and blue boxes is the exact same tube as a Tung Sol VT-231 in tan military boxes. What are the three "flavors" of Ken Rad black glass you speak of? I've removed the glass from about half a dozen Ken Rads with various base prints (fwiw: I'd be happy to post pics of the internal constructions of some 6SN7s). Perhaps you've stumbled across some insight I overlooked. The only differences I've found is minor mica variations and grid posts constructed of different materials. It's logical fallacy to assume that the differences you hear in tubes is due to vintage or material differences. Each and every 40s tube was hand-assembled by both skilled and not-so-skilled laymen. Thus, they're subject to variations due to build quality alone. Chances are, any differneces you heard were quality control related more then anything else. To clarify, I am not doubting you hear differences. Some people simply have better auditory acuity. But you are the first person I know who can hear marked differences in Ken Rad black glass 6SN7/VT-231. I currently use a Chardonnay. |
Hi Jazzdude, I have both the carbon coated ST Visseaux and the tall GT glass version. I prefer the GTs by a small margin. If you want to sell any of your GT Visseaux, I'd love to buy them :-) Tung Sol round plates stays in my 6SN7 position the vast majority of the time. However, I love the RCA grey glass midrange when I'm looking for something a bit more romantic and full. I'll swap in the Sylvania VT-231 or Bad Boys if I want more air. -Len |