Sorlowski,
I am currently using the Sovtek KT-66(about $50.00 per match pair at tubestore.com in which I have no affiliation whatsoever)that Mick recommended to one owner here which he shared on this thread a while ago. It needs to play at least 50 hours before it shows its real character. With the RC VT-231, Mullard 5AR4, and TFK 6922 plus Mullard M8080 on the phono, my preamp never sounded so good. At least to me of course but I am very impress how the tonal balance becomes so natural in my system with this tubes as regulator. I have compared it to Sylvania 6F6G's which I thought the "it" tube for me, Tungsol 5881, RCA 6L6GC Black Plates, GE 7581, and GEC KT-66 Brown Amphenol base(the only two I have left) and I like the Sovtek better.
Do not make any conclusion about this tube's ability until about 50 hours as I mentioned, after that it gets even better.
Of course, you can take my post with a grain of salt. I am just sharing my findings that's all.
regards,
Abe |
Sorlowski. The tung sol 5881 is too pricey only because it is a good sounding tube when used as an output tube in push/pull configured audio amp as well as being very popular with the guitar amp guys where it's in big demand. It's really not that great a tube in the supratek anyway and certainly not worth paying the current market price for. The lowly 6F6g as well as many others inexpensive nos types like the 6v6,6k6,6u6 sound as good if not better for the same cost of the currently manufactured 5881's or 6L6's. The chineese kt-66 reissue is a very good tube if you want new. |
Thanks for your answers, but what reissue of KT-66 or other tube would give me most warm, details and drive (if such combination of features is possible) ?
Which new replacement will get me closest to famous WE 350B performance ?
Are tubes from Chinese Valve Art (KT-66) or maybe Harmonics any good ? |
Can anyone recommend a good, reliable source for Tung Sol 6SN7 "round plates". My '52 Syls are becoming microphonic and one is starting to spit quite a bit. |
Fiddler,
I don't have an email address, but go to Audioasylum.com and go to either the Tube or SET asylum and ping someone named Len. I purchased roundplates from him. He was very, very helpful about these tubes and alternatives, and the tubes he sent were as represented. Good person to deal with. |
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Anyone tried the EH 6SN7 gold pins? Or the non-gold pins? |
Fiddler,
Mick is using these in the new Cortese preamps. He said he has hundreds of NOS tubes on hand, but he really likes the sound of these tubes. I have heard that the gold pins are not worth the extra cost. |
You might think twice before fooling around with the 5881. I emailed Mick about tube rolling for my Grange and this is the reply:
"The best thing to change is the ECC88- it makes a real difference. People have changed the 5881's and 5AR4 but what that does is change the operating characteristics. It negates all the work I've done in setting them up, but we all hear differently and some people seem to like the (slightly)different sound. Or maybe they need to justify the cost of these expensive tubes.
My advice is to buy CD's, records and enjoy the bloody thing! Every time you feel like spending momey on it, put the money in the bank- in a couple year or so i will possibly have an upgraded design (design is where the real benefits come from) and you will be able to afford an upgrade trip".
That being said I just picked up a pair of 1960's Siemens Cca to replace the ECC88; I should have them by the weekend. |
Wc65mustang - Mick's comments have a lot of merit. Esp about the different rectifier/regulator combo really only serving to change the operating points on the signal tubes. I still recommend rolling all the tubes, but I would use some auditory/budgetary discretion along with a clear plan of action. I suggest rolling the rectifier first, regulator second, and signal tubes last. |
>>Mick's comments have a lot of merit.<<
Do you think? I'm sure he'll be glad to hear you approve. I would suspect the designer has a better idea than any of us as to what works and what doesn't. |
Ecclectique,thanks for the info!I think im getting over my somewhat irrational fear that the worlds supply of good NOS tubes is going to dry up before i can aquire a lifetime supply for my Chardonney,,,, |
WcMustang. Yes sir. We are more than certain Mick knows what works and what doesn't. However.... A new production 5ar4 is electrically the equivalent of: you quessed it... An old nos gz34/5ar4 and the sovtek 5881 is the electrical equivalent of a nos 5881/6L6 as well as many other substitutions in the regulator position. That's why they call it tube rolling sir. Pick your poison sir. |
>>Pick your poison sir.<<
I will go with the owner and designer of the equipment not an amateur audiophile with mid-fi knowledge and components "Sir". |
Geez, Wc65mustang, why dump on Ecclectique? He has been very helpful to many of us here with tube rolling. And I personally have corresponded with Mick several times about tube rolling and his only advice to me, aside from offering appropriate substitutions, was to beware of unscrupulous tube dealers selling counterfeit NOS tubes. Didn't need the warning, but I appreciated it none-the-less. And I find it interesting that you are bustin' on Ecclectique about tube rolling when I came across this thread initiated by you: http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1081292815&openusid&zzWc65mustang&4&5#Wc65mustangIt seems in the case of the "Aesthetix Rhea" YOU are asking "amateur audiophiles with mid-fi knowledge and components" for their advice, but with the Supratek you are hammering Ecclectique for trying to help the rest of us. Don't you think the "owner and designer" of Aesthetix also knows what's best for the Rhea? Why is it anymore inappropriate to change the stock tubes that the designer chose in a Supratek than the stock tubes the designer chose in the Aesthetix? As long as Ecclectique's advice is correct regarding the electrical characteristics of tube substitutions, where's the beef, especially in light of *your* thread which I linked above. |
Wc65mustang,I think Ecclectique and Jazzdude are very knowledgeable and very helpfull guys ,,,please be nice, |
Raytheprinter says "are very knowledgeable and very helpfull guys ,,,please be nice"
Knowledgable is relative and helpful is questionable; the fact remains that the designer and builder does not recommend what these quasi audiophiles are doing. So keep on rollin' ladies. |
Wc65Mustang-Ecclectique's contributions in this forum and many others is immeasurable in both amount and value of knowledge and a great help to many. I await your response to Fiddler's question as well! |
Nice dodge, Wc65mustang!
How about answering the question regarding the Aesthetix vs. the Supratek.
Only a "lady" would weasel out when she was caught with her hand in the cookie jar!
And yes, "Knowledgable" is "relative"...especially when it is spelled wrong.
Either find a legitimate reason to criticize tube rolling in the Suprateks or go waste other people's time. Virtually every tube product made benefits from rolling tubes from stock tubes to NOS. The Supratek is no different. |
Fiddler,hee hee ,i never did win many spelling bees,i do know that some tubes sound better to my ears than the stock tubes in my Chardonney,i wish i did prefer the stock tubes,sure would be easier on my bank account! hope i didnt spell anything wrong!Peace,and happy listening to all!PS. i think you fergot a coma,,,, |
Perhaps Wc65mustang can take the money he is saving on tubes and enroll in charm school.
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I think that many of us respect Ecclectique’s opinions a lot. He had helped us not only in tube rolling issues but in other audio related issues as well. In relation to tube rolling I also was in touch with Mick and his position is that NOS tubes sound “different” in his Supratek designs, not necessarily “better.” And here comes the trick! Since audible perception is quite subjective, what for some people is only “different,” for other people is just “better.” Trust your ears and decide what route you want to take. Meanwhile, please, do not disrespect a gentleman like Ecclectique. Respectfully yours, Pablo. |
Fiddler, check your dictionary!!!!!knowledgeable,,hee hee,i guess i spelled it right,,,do i hear an apology?? |
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Wc65mustang,
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Take a hike....
. |
ray:
i'm not trying to me mean, but i've read many of your threads and one thing always irks me. since we are on the subject of spelling, it is chardonnAy not chardonnEy. but either way you spell it, it's a great preamp. i should know, i suffered through an 8 month wait for mine. :) as far as tube rolling goes, i'm using a bendix 6106, ken rad black glass vt-231's, and sylvania 5932's. due to my impulsive nature, i installed them all at the same time so i can't comment on each tube's contribution. but, i'm happy. |
Kgturner,thanks for pointing that out ,ive noticed a lot of good folks here make errors in spelling,or dont begin thier sentences with capital letters,as you know!!!!So what!I just thought id point out above that i did spell knowledgeable right,,i checked my dictionary!anyway ,enough of this,,i also am using a bendix6106 with kenrad black glass vt231,kenrad 6f6g and love this combo,ill have to check out the 5932syou mentioned,,,peace |
I might be getting a pair of Tungsol roundplates soon,,ive read so many good things about them,,has Tungsol made any other good 6sn7 besides these?my apologys straying off thread! |
Raytheprinter - that wasn't directed at you. You spelled it correctly. It was Wc65mustang I was referring to in my post. Check his post. |
Hey Wc65mustang,What a dumb thing to say....Ecclectique for sure is beyond your reproach.... |
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Hi All,
about tube rolling, would like to know
how many regulator tubes are in the new Cortese?
One pair or two?
Thanks
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Hello Alma,
It was 2 pair of regulators (6L6's and 12B4A's) but I believe Mick has gone back to one pair (6L6's). |
Hi Gang. Just returned from a little holiday to catch up on the thread. HOLY TAMOLLY! |
Hello Slowhand,
thanks a lot for your reply.
My Cortese, built in May 05,and arrived to me last week has one pair of 6L6's.
I'll go for tube rolling after 200 hours, in your experience where to start? I like to try just one tube at time. |
Hi Alma,
I have heard 350b's in my Syrah and they are the best, but I cannot afford a pair. I like the 6f6g's a lot and they cost a fraction of the 350b's. I also like the GEC KT66's. Some people don't like them, but they provide a good contrast in sound from the 6f6g's. Where the 6f6g's are dynamic with solid, tight bass, the KT66's are warmer sounding with a warmer bass. I switch back and forth as my mood changes. That is what I love about this preamp!
Enjoy! |
What is a difference between GEC KT-66 and Genelec KT-66 ?
Are they both equally good ? |
Sorlowski, it's the same tube. |
Hi Sorlowski. They are the same tube and made by the same company. Sometimes can be labelled as M-O valve as well.Genelec was the British division of the General Electric Co. The kt-66 is a beam power tube and was developed as an uprated equivalent to the American made 6L6 and far superior sounding in most audio amplifiers when employed as an output tube. And one of the best tubes when used as a regulator in the suprateks. |
Thank you, I'm asking because all GEC KT-66 I have seen were gray glass, and Genelec KT-66 were clear glass, the some shape though. So I thought that they must be different companies. |
These companies simply underwent numerous brand and operational name changes through the years under different ownerships. MWT (Marconi Wireless Telegraph), Osram (Edison General Electric), Genelec (General Electric), GEC (General Electric Company), Marconi Valve, Marconi Osram, English Electric, et al (I'm sure I missed a few) are all essentially the same company at different stages during history.
GEC-branded KT66 came in both clear and grey glass, black or brown base. The reason why most Genelec-branded KT66s are clear glass is because this was a marketing name used in later years (when only clear glass KT66s were produced). Similiar, the reason why ST "coke" bottled KT66s were mostly labelled as MWT or Osram is because these were developed and sold during the earlier years. Although brand names aren't an abosolute indicator of vintage, it can give some general insights as to when the tubes were sold. |
Thank for info, I have though that Marconi is Italian company and Osram German company ?
Is there a difference in sound between gray glass or clear glass GEC, Genalex ? |
The Marconi companies were named after their famous founder, Guglielmo Marconi. He was an Italy, but he established and operated his company in England.
The grey glass version is usually regarded as tubier sounding: a bit sweeter, richer, and warmer. The KT66 did go through a few changes with it's oxide plate coating, which probably explains the differences in sound (likely has little or nothing to do with the graphic coating on the glass). |
I have a Cabernet and am looking for suggestions for the PX4. I would like to replace the stock tube with some sort of NOS (or just old and good) tube. Which brands have people tried and liked?
Thanks |
AFAIK there is no replacement for the PX4/n. |
Hey Gang. There was a PX4 that was developed and manufactured by Genelex back in the 30's. It is extremely rare and very highly sought after in Europe and Japan. Like the original PX25, next to impossible to find. A pair would typically sell for more than your cabernet. |
Wc65mustang, sorry, what does AFAIK stand for? And do you mean there is no better tube than the chinese stock tube that came in it? (surely not!) I see quite a few old PX4's on ebay.
Ecclectique, no I don't think I'll be putting a $5K+ pair of tubes in my $5k pre-amp!
Mark |
AFAIK= As far as I know.
Mick told me not to bother rolling mine. He said there is no susbtitute and that other manufacturer's px4 will make no difference. Instead I focused on the signal, rectfier, and regulator tubes along with the coupling capacitors.
Good luck. |
I find it extremely hard to believe that a vintage Marconi wouldn't sound better than a new Chinese PX4! Thanks though! |
Why not invest 5K and let us know? I have no problem spending your money to find out!!!!
:-) |
The Marconi's are on the order of $600 a pair. I will let you know once I get them. Chears. |
