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David,
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I received my Grange last February and love it. I had swapped out all of the tubes except for the Regulator position (just did not get around to it until now).
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I am waiting to see what luck other people have with their upgrades before attempting any changes of caps or adding a stepped attenuator.
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I will probably pick up a pair of 6h30's and have them cryoed to see how they fare vs. the stock Sovtek's that came with the Grange.
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Thanks again & Best Regards,
Larry
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I am assuming the Supratek can handle the 6H30. While often touted as a 6922 variant, it really is a much more demanding tube and should never be substituted into a 6922 application (though it's often safe to sub 6922 in place of gear designed for 6H30).
The 6H30 you should seek out is the 6H30P-DR. It's the premium version of this soviet tube, built with much better parts and tighter specifications. thetubestore.com has them in stock last time I checked. |
Hi Larry. Did you get yourself a Grange too? The partsconnexion.com up here in Canada sells the 6n30 as well as many nos tubes including the siemens ecc88's. Chris Johnson is the former founder and president of the now defunct Sonic Frontiers.A good guy and I think he provides a service for cryo'ing tubes as well. |
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Wc65mustang....Thanks for the heads up on the Siemens 7308 replacement for the 6922 position. I will check with Brendan and see what he might have on hand. I might even get them cryoed.
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David..... Thanks for the information on the Russian 6h30. Any idea as to where I might pick up another pair? I would like to see what cryoing them might do for the sonics. You never cease to amaze me with your tube knowledge and willingness to share....
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Thanks & Best Regards,
Larry
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Hi Gang. Larry/Mustang.....Yes, the 6h30 is a dual triode developed by the Soviet Army. There is no equivalent sub for it.Until the fall of the Big Red Machine,no one even new it existed. Victor Khomenko of BAT was one of the first to introduce it to the West and employ the 6h30 in a commercial design. He dubbed it "the super tube". More and more designers,DIY types as well as the industry giants [ARC,CJ etc]are now embracing this tube for use in audio circuit design and rightly so as it does possess some unique electrical characteristics that are ideal for use in audio circuits that other triodes simply cannot do. Unusually high filament current[transconductance]combined with very low plate resistance, as well as an ideal amplification factor whereby it can be employed as a single stage all by itself, without the use of any negative feedback or cathode followers. Not to mention it's a 10,000 hour tube thats very low in noise and microphony. |
Larry,
If I'm not mistaken it is a Russian designed (and built) tube with very few, if any, substitutes. Ecclectique and Whoopadeedoo, please jump in here.
PS I just bought a dynamite pair of Siemens 7308 (circa 1972) to replace my Cca. Absolutely the finest 6922/Cca/7308 that I've ever heard. Quite expensive at $410/pr but after a few hours with them, I have no regrets whatsoever. Check them out if you are going to buy yourself a Christmas present. You'll flip at the extremely low noise level and spectacular dynamics. A breathtaking tube.
And by the way, Merry Christmas to all Supratek owners and everyone following this thread. |
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Wc65mustang,
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Thanks for the quick response.
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I buy 90%+ of my tubes from Brendan for the same reasons. I would much rather pay a premium, get a great sounding tube and have someone that stands behind all that he does than try to save a few dollars and run the inherent risks involved in buying NOS tubes.
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I will get a hold of Brendan again and order a quad of the 6F6GT's and let you know how they compare with the Tungsol 5881's that I just received from him.
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Do you know of a good replacement tube for the 2 tubes that sit in front of the PX4's in the Grange. The stock tubes are SOVTEK's with the number 6H30(n)-EB. The (n) is a Russian letter that looks a bit like an English lower case N. I asked Brendan if he knew the tube and it was new to him.
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Thanks / Rgds,
Larry
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Hi Larry,
I bought my GT's from Brendan at Tube World. I've dealt with most tube vendors and I find that his selection and quality is unparalleled. He's not always the lowest priced but he stands behind the sale which to me is important when you're dealing with 40-60 year old products.
My Grange is microphonic but I wouldn't call it a "problem". There are a number of means to isolate and/or remove surrounding vibration without spending a ton of money and most importantly violating the doctrine of matrimonial harmony. :-))) |
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David / Wc65mustang,
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Thanks for the advice on the 5881's. I already bought a pair, but will pick up a quad of Westinghouse 6F6GT's. Would Tube World be a good place to get them ?
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Wc65mustang, Are you having any microphonic issues with your Grange ?
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Thanks & Rgds,
Larry
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Ecclectique,
Well it will be a busy weekend. I purchased a pair of Sophia 45 Mesh Plate last week and a friend of mine is letting me borrow the EL 45 which he intends to sell. So I have a new pair of Sophias that have never been fired up for sale. Then to complicate matters the same friend found a pair of vintage WE300B that I jumped at immediately. I'll leave you a note in a few weeks. |
Hi Mustang. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the EL 45 compared to the PX4 and the 300b.The 45 is one amazing tube when used as an output in a single ended circuit. Larry, my take on the value of the Tungsol 5881 mirrors Mustang's to a T. The guitar guy's love them,and the demand has driven up their market value significantly in recent years.The 6F6G/vt-66 family of tubes is still relatively inexpensive by comparison.The money saved would be a far better value invested in a great nos rectifier. |
Larry,
Mick told me that the Tung Sols are an improvement but not worth the expense. I have no idea what you paid but from my recollection they are a fairly expensive tube and I would have needed 4 of them. More importantly however, the 5881 is a much better output tube in a push pull circuit than it is as a regulator.
The Westinghouse 6F6GT in concert with the 1957 Philips metal base GZ37 (I changed all at the same time) increased the dynamics appreciably. The transients are also much quicker and detailed. IMO, an upgraded rectifier has a bigger impact than upgraded regulators in my Grange.
I just had the Hexfred diodes installed as well as an adjustable filament voltage switch. This will enable use of three different output tubes PX/4 (2.5V), 45 (4.0V), and 300B (5.0V). I have a pair of Emission Labs 45 mesh that I'll be playing with this weekend. |
Hi all,
I want to improve my phono stage by replacing the 6922 tubes on my Chenin and based on what I've read recently, esp. comments from Mick, this seems like a good thing to try. I've already rolled my 6sn7 with Ken Rad VT-231 "US Navy" from the '40s.
Can Chenin owners say which 6922 tubes do the best job, for the money? I know the Telefunken CCa are supposed to the pinnacle but they are very expensive. Tube World has a lot of 6922s for sale but which have you tried that did the best job for you? My price limit is about $250 for a pair.
Many thanks,
Nick. |
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Wc65mustang,
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Have you tried Tung Sol 5881's as well as the 6f6G's? I spoke with Brendan today and ordered a quad of Tung Sol 5881's.
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At this point, I still have the Sovtek's that came with the unit. I have one more position to roll after I figure out the best 5881's or replacements.
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Did you find a large difference when you changed out the 5881'S and if so what did you get ?
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Rgds,
Larry
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Hi Ray. The 6f6g [shoulder shaped bottles]were the first examples of this pentode and typically made in the 30's. The st glass version was introduced later [40's-50's] and then followed with the metal envelope types. In the suprateks, the G bottles are the better sounding. Most all G versions internals have a round black plate very similiar to that of the Western Electric 350b, although I have seen some with oval plates as well.The 6f6 pentodes were typically used in many early radios and juke boxes. |
Wc65mustang,They only have one used one in stock,,Thanks Ecclectique,Let me know if you find any!Thanks,Man,,,these seem to be hard to find NOS ! I have a used pr. of Sylvanias and Brimers,that sound good,but not as smooth and clean as the NOS,NIB pr.Tungsols |
Thanks Guys!Are the ST 6F6Gs made in the 1930s-40s ? |
Hi Gang. Mem916. Did those marconi px4's show up? |
Hey Ray.I will check my stash. I have a bunch of 6f6G's. |
Check with Brendan at Tube World 920-208-0353. Few tube vendors have a better inventory and know more than he does. I bought 4 NOS Westinghouse 6F6GT (replacing Grange stock 5881) regulators from him and they are superb. |
Hello guys,concerning my response above ;i love how these tubes sound,id like to get another pair just like them,how can i make sure im getting the same tube?on the glass it has the stop sign shape w/6F6G-G1M ,on the base it has the number 322136,any info would be great!Thanks,Ray |
I just recieved a pair of NIN,NOS,Tungsol 6F6Gs ST,Boy do these sound good,using them with RCA grey glass VT231,and stock 5AR4 Sovtek,great combo in my Chardonnay! |
Hey Slowhand. How good is that! congrats man. |
Kgturner. I have never tried the new valve arts as the regulators in my supratek however a friend bought a pair for output tubes in his 6L6 based Audio Note amplifier. The the results were pretty disappointing when compared to his nos 6L6's and a bad joke when compared my Western Electric 350b's. Worth a try as a regulator though.... who knows,might work well for that application. |
anybody bothered to try the valve art 350b? we and nu are too pricey for my taste. at $50 for a pair i might take the risk in the near future. |
The Marconi's are on the order of $600 a pair. I will let you know once I get them. Chears. |
Why not invest 5K and let us know? I have no problem spending your money to find out!!!!
:-) |
I find it extremely hard to believe that a vintage Marconi wouldn't sound better than a new Chinese PX4! Thanks though! |
AFAIK= As far as I know.
Mick told me not to bother rolling mine. He said there is no susbtitute and that other manufacturer's px4 will make no difference. Instead I focused on the signal, rectfier, and regulator tubes along with the coupling capacitors.
Good luck. |
Wc65mustang, sorry, what does AFAIK stand for? And do you mean there is no better tube than the chinese stock tube that came in it? (surely not!) I see quite a few old PX4's on ebay.
Ecclectique, no I don't think I'll be putting a $5K+ pair of tubes in my $5k pre-amp!
Mark |
Hey Gang. There was a PX4 that was developed and manufactured by Genelex back in the 30's. It is extremely rare and very highly sought after in Europe and Japan. Like the original PX25, next to impossible to find. A pair would typically sell for more than your cabernet. |
AFAIK there is no replacement for the PX4/n. |
I have a Cabernet and am looking for suggestions for the PX4. I would like to replace the stock tube with some sort of NOS (or just old and good) tube. Which brands have people tried and liked?
Thanks |
The Marconi companies were named after their famous founder, Guglielmo Marconi. He was an Italy, but he established and operated his company in England.
The grey glass version is usually regarded as tubier sounding: a bit sweeter, richer, and warmer. The KT66 did go through a few changes with it's oxide plate coating, which probably explains the differences in sound (likely has little or nothing to do with the graphic coating on the glass). |
Thank for info, I have though that Marconi is Italian company and Osram German company ?
Is there a difference in sound between gray glass or clear glass GEC, Genalex ? |
These companies simply underwent numerous brand and operational name changes through the years under different ownerships. MWT (Marconi Wireless Telegraph), Osram (Edison General Electric), Genelec (General Electric), GEC (General Electric Company), Marconi Valve, Marconi Osram, English Electric, et al (I'm sure I missed a few) are all essentially the same company at different stages during history.
GEC-branded KT66 came in both clear and grey glass, black or brown base. The reason why most Genelec-branded KT66s are clear glass is because this was a marketing name used in later years (when only clear glass KT66s were produced). Similiar, the reason why ST "coke" bottled KT66s were mostly labelled as MWT or Osram is because these were developed and sold during the earlier years. Although brand names aren't an abosolute indicator of vintage, it can give some general insights as to when the tubes were sold. |
Thank you, I'm asking because all GEC KT-66 I have seen were gray glass, and Genelec KT-66 were clear glass, the some shape though. So I thought that they must be different companies. |
Hi Sorlowski. They are the same tube and made by the same company. Sometimes can be labelled as M-O valve as well.Genelec was the British division of the General Electric Co. The kt-66 is a beam power tube and was developed as an uprated equivalent to the American made 6L6 and far superior sounding in most audio amplifiers when employed as an output tube. And one of the best tubes when used as a regulator in the suprateks. |
Sorlowski, it's the same tube. |
What is a difference between GEC KT-66 and Genelec KT-66 ?
Are they both equally good ? |
Hi Alma,
I have heard 350b's in my Syrah and they are the best, but I cannot afford a pair. I like the 6f6g's a lot and they cost a fraction of the 350b's. I also like the GEC KT66's. Some people don't like them, but they provide a good contrast in sound from the 6f6g's. Where the 6f6g's are dynamic with solid, tight bass, the KT66's are warmer sounding with a warmer bass. I switch back and forth as my mood changes. That is what I love about this preamp!
Enjoy! |
Hello Slowhand,
thanks a lot for your reply.
My Cortese, built in May 05,and arrived to me last week has one pair of 6L6's.
I'll go for tube rolling after 200 hours, in your experience where to start? I like to try just one tube at time. |
Hi Gang. Just returned from a little holiday to catch up on the thread. HOLY TAMOLLY! |
Hello Alma,
It was 2 pair of regulators (6L6's and 12B4A's) but I believe Mick has gone back to one pair (6L6's). |
Hi All,
about tube rolling, would like to know
how many regulator tubes are in the new Cortese?
One pair or two?
Thanks
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Hey Wc65mustang,What a dumb thing to say....Ecclectique for sure is beyond your reproach.... |
Raytheprinter - that wasn't directed at you. You spelled it correctly. It was Wc65mustang I was referring to in my post. Check his post. |
I might be getting a pair of Tungsol roundplates soon,,ive read so many good things about them,,has Tungsol made any other good 6sn7 besides these?my apologys straying off thread! |
Kgturner,thanks for pointing that out ,ive noticed a lot of good folks here make errors in spelling,or dont begin thier sentences with capital letters,as you know!!!!So what!I just thought id point out above that i did spell knowledgeable right,,i checked my dictionary!anyway ,enough of this,,i also am using a bendix6106 with kenrad black glass vt231,kenrad 6f6g and love this combo,ill have to check out the 5932syou mentioned,,,peace |
