Regarding the yeti 1400, no you don't need a solar panel to recharge it. That's simply an optional element of the power system that you can buy. It charges from the wall socket. And price-wise it should be somewhere around 16 or 17 hundred. 1600 would be a good deal. I think list is around 2,000. REI sells them for people who want to go camping and solar panels are handy that way. But the yeti is a good thing to have in case of a power outage. Because it can charge your cell phone or your keep your refrigerator running.
Supratek or Don Sachs - which way to go?
I'm preparing to replace my SS preamp with a tube unit and have read with great interest many threads on this board. This is where I learned about Don Sachs model 2 preamps. They sound like what I'm looking for and those who own them consistently express their satisfaction with them.
Now I've just been reading and learning about the Supratek lineup. Wow. These also sound like fantastic works of art. Leaving me with a new question about which way to go.
Thoughts? Advice? Experience? Anyone care to share?
Now I've just been reading and learning about the Supratek lineup. Wow. These also sound like fantastic works of art. Leaving me with a new question about which way to go.
Thoughts? Advice? Experience? Anyone care to share?
184 responses Add your response
Sounds awesome.I will mention the biggest change in my system recently - a Yeti 1400 lithium-ion battery generator. It generates a perfect 60 hz sine wave and lowers the noise floor (I never knew I had a noise floor before). It has taken my system to the next level. I hope you can track one down just to try it. I have my preamp, power amp and Quad 2805s plugged into it. Thanks for continuing to keep the Flame Alive and sharing all the info on your system config. |
Greetings I got a GREAT Deal on a pair of the New Rogue audio 180 monoblocks(with the dark revision ,,,up graded caps..50%more power supply....naked vishay resitors...silver wire used thru out .Cardas.rodhium 5 way posts to nam a few of the upgrades)...Supratek Chardony pre(gen 3)...Martin Logan Montis electrostatic speakers(Luv Them!) running with the latest pair of Vandersteen subs,,,transport is the cambridge CXC(weakest Link) Acoustic Miror dac(maxed out) all with top of th Line Acoustic Zen cable...and i am not changing anything(besides the transport)...system is one of the best i heard( i know im Biased but these componets just melt together and the sum is larger than any one part...yep yep...its that good!!!!!!....as far as the MHDT Orchhid i found it to be a very capable dac for the price(Very nice tone ect ect)...But you could not pry my AMT3 dac away frome me...its in a class well above the orchid....other members felt the same way(But thats not taking anything away from the orchid....very good dac for the money)...so there you have it..this system can be listened for hours with no fatigue and a BIG smile on your face...TRUTH!! |
Thanks cal3713 for a unbiased opinion on the
Shuguang WE6SN7..i was thinking about buying the latest DS pre to compare it to my new gen 3 chardonnay pre...well i am going to pull thr trigger in mid to late november,,,,should be f---ing cool to have both and compare the 2 with my audio club...stay tuned...more chites and audio giggles coming |
@audio123 I bought a pair of the Shuguang WE6SN7 Plus tubes for my DS pre. They are very clear and nicely extended. Unfortunately I'm always trying to tame my accuton tweeters and they made me grate my teeth a bit. I'm currently running Raytheon JAN's with copper support rods in the driver stage and RCA Grey Glass VT-231s in the buffer stage. I could see how the WE6SN7's would be great if you didn't have the tweeter issues I've got. |
Greetings whitestix...and congrats on your new DS preamp...I am the proud owner of a New gen 3 Supratek Chardonnay pre...my Qusetion to you is how do you like the new
Shuguang WE6SN7 tubes?...I replaced the stock russian 6sn7 in my Chardonnay with the
Shuguang WE6SN7 and really like them ALOT....i went thru about 4 to 5 different combo's of NOS 6sn7 and foud the new
Shuguang WE6SN7 were more to my liking (although it was VERY close on 2 nos pairs In my system and with MY audio preference and ears)....just curious what you felt about the
Shuguang WE6SN7?...Did you try any other combo's? once again congrats on your new pre...which i was going to buy and it was a coin toss and sum ears i trusted to move the needle to Supratek(still may buy one to compare in my system...we now have 2 great pre's under $2500!!TRUTH) |
I have one of Don Sachs first preamps, since fully upgraded, but I decided to buy his new preamp, which accommodates the new WE6SN7 tubes that Don prefers and which has several enhancements over his current preamp. His current preamp is far and away the best preamp I have ever owned (after CJ, HK, Berning, Modwright, Belles, McCormack and others I now forget), and the new preamp will no doubt be even better. Like Don, I think there is magic in using 6SN7 tubes in preamps and Don has it all figured out. Same with the fine Supratek preamp. |
just a small update with my chardonnay gen 3 pre from Mick running with Shu Guang WE6S7N9(over 2 months and counting) and im getting goose bumps not only at night but in the Day!!...This Pre beat ALL of my expectations and then some...would not look back(BAT-32SE very good pre!)...not sure how his earlier models sound(im sure splendid ) but the gen 3 is SOMTHING ELSE...and for the money....guilt....and i didnt even try and beat him up price wise...if your on the fence....well you no the drill...jump off!!....TRUTH! |
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Also, because I wasn't using the second output, I decided to buy some additional capacitors to try in that location. On a whim bought two Mundorf Supremes as something very different than the Duelund copies Don uses on output 1. I find them substantially better. I totally believe in copper foil caps (have Duelund tinned copper on my tweeters), but find the Mundorf's better in the preamp. The Duelund copies sound kind of flat and dull in comparison. Better focus and front-to-back layering/depth with the Mundorfs. Plus they're a lot cheaper. $40/pair for 2uF. Will probably continue to play and try the v-caps that atmasphere recommends. TFTF as the CU-TFs are just too pricey at this point. |
Have finally put in enough time with my Don Sachs pre (all upgrades) to evaluate the unit. The difference between my source direct (I've used both the ps audio pwd & dsd units) and through the Don Sachs is not even close. Music sounds diffuse and unbalanced going direct. Adding the pre to the chain improves every dimension of the sound... bass, highs, clarity, and imaging. It's just better and I couldn't possibly go back to source direct. Also, I agree with the reviews saying that the sound is not at all syrupy, dark, or slow (i.e., tubey). The pre isn't really adding a ton to the signal... I'm just getting a better version of what comes directly out of the source. A very nicely transparent pre-amp. |
Yes, I can confirm that Mick is on vacation. He should be back in the next few days. BTW, there was some interest expressed over on the "preamp deal of the century" thread in a Supratek owners thread. I do plan to create one soon. It will be a place for us to discuss our systems, tweaks, equipment and so forth. BTW, I do expect to be able to compare a Don Sachs model 2 to my Cortese some time in August. Another individual on this forum owns the Don Sachs unit and lives not too far away. So, that should be fun! |
Greetings....Mick just shipped out my new Chardonnay yesterday and I am counting down the days till it gets here..,,So glad i found out about supratek thru this Thread...soo thanks to all....it will be replacing my old but still very good BAT VK-3i preamp...i was looking to go up the BAT ladder till i ran across this thread....I will be running the Supratek with a pair of Rogue audio 180 mono blocks(Latest Dark Upgrade)...speakers are the Sweet Martin Logan Montis with dual Vandersteen subs...Digital is the New Audio Mirror Tubadour 3 Dac(which is a STEAL at the price and made me sell my Schitt audio Yggy 2 Dac and not look back)..transport is the Cambridge CXC(weakest Link and hope to upgrade soon) all with top of the Line Acoustic Zen Cable....Supratek Stoked to Join the club...so Love..peace and chicken grease for all the great Help along the Way!!!!!!! |
Nice review. I used to have a Cortese and would consider purchasing another in the future. Agree that Mick is great to deal with. Hard to beat the Cortese if you want a great sounding preamp with a built-in phono stage. I'm intrigued by the new LCR phono stage. I hope to read more about it. My only gripe with the one that I owned was that the separate power supply really warmed up my small-ish room, much like some tube amps would do. I'm wondering if the separate power supply of the new Cortese model warms up your room at all? |
Hi all, Sorry if this runs a little long, but I recently took delivery of my new Supratek Cortese preamp with LCR phono stage. The purpose of this post is to share my decision making process and experience in the hope that it will help others “find their way” through what was, for me, a somewhat daunting process. Overall, I have learned a lot and my perspective on audio and hi-fi has changed. I used a Naim NAC 82 with a hicap power supply for about 15 years. The 82 replaced a Naim 72 that I’d had in my system for well over 10 years. I always enjoyed my system when using the Naim preamps but knew there was better equipment out there. As I prepared for retirement I started researching tube preamps. I read a lot on various forums, asked many dumb questions (still lots of those left to go) and decided to seek out a preamp based around the 6SN7 tube; while there are discussions about which 6SN7 is the best, for the most part it seems this tube is almost universally well regarded for audio applications. Correspondingly, my search eventually boiled down either to a Don Sachs Model 2 or a Supratek. I had actually decided to purchase a Don Sachs unit before learning about Supratek but got hung up in the wife/budget approval process, so continued to research. The two companies/builders have much in common. Both are run by highly respected builders and are (as far as I understand) one man operations. Many of those who own pieces from either one of these builders describe the experience of listening to the equipment in glowing terms; many owners of each brand share that they came to it after ownership of products from many other highly regarded brands, such as Conrad Johnson and Audio Research. The reviews and comments on the internet seem to come from dedicated, long-term audiophile owners who swear by the product and state that their preamp is never leaving their system. One of the main reasons I decided to go with the Supratek was that it included an on-board phono stage. I figured this would allow me to get rid of my Linn Linto phono stage. I also needed (or wanted) five inputs. I’ve owned the Linto for over 10 years and it has sounded excellent. I haven’t had the time or motivation to do a hard-core side-by-side comparison of the Linto with the Supratek LCR phono stage yet, but I think the Supratek sounds a lot better. I just hear a lot more information coming off the records. I suppose that’s a preliminary opinion. BTW, my Linto is a 25th anniversary model, so it’s getting a bit old, and I had to have it serviced last year. Linn no longer supports the product but the Seattle authorized Linn technician took it on and performed a service, replacing all faulty parts with more highly spec’d components. I know I’m rambling here but please bear with me. I’ve started to write this review several times before and those earlier versions have somehow vanished into thin air on the internet. Mick was an absolute gem to work with. The preamp is beautiful to look at. It comes across as a truly unique, bespoke product. It is not a standard “closed box” preamp, though if you are considering either a Don Sachs or Supratek product you’re probably most interested in the sound, reliability and value. The sound: The first piece I played through the system was Shawn Colvin’s excellent 1994 release “Cover Girl”. I’ve listened to this cd countless times. Previously I thought I understood the lyrics. I now know I was wrong, because now I can clearly and easily hear them and know that previously my mind had been “filling in the blanks” to make sense of what it was hearing. I could go on and on about this cd but I’ll turn my attention to the second cd I played over they system – Pieces of Africa, by the Kronos Quartet. This is a wonderful 1992 release and the biggest difference through the Supratek was the incredible sense of cohesion of the quartet. Yes, the soundstage was huge, and each player clearly occupied a location within that soundstage. But this was merely a bonus, because the biggest delight was in understanding how the ensemble members were interacting and influencing each other. Amazing and wonderful to hear. Next up was the 2017 Rhino Records “Summer of Love” reissue of Van Morrison’s Astral Weeks album. Holy smokes. Now I can understand why hardcore fans and collectors love this album and pay big money for original pressings. I have no basis for comparing the Rhino pressing to any others, but I will say that the recording is very good to my ears and the pressing seemed to leave nothing out. If you haven’t heard it yet, I encourage you to seek out the soundtrack to the movie “The Old Man and the Gun”. The press seemed to make a big deal out of the fact that this is apparently Robert Redford’s last movie. But the soundtrack is a hidden gem, a small group jazz release that is beautifully written, performed and recorded. The sound via the Supratek was nothing less than superlative. Update, about four weeks in – The preamp has continued to get better, more opened up, so to speak. The audio writer, Harvey Rosenberg, coined a word – “whole-osity” to try to capture the way superlative audio equipment conveys music. When discussing the work of Nobu Shishido he said that his artistic intent was “to take us to a musical territory that is so refined that there is no conventional language that can describe it....this is the job of the audio artisan...to inspire us to explore the ineffable”. When I incorporated the Supratek Cortese into my system I felt that I was having the same kind of experience. The phono stage is amazing. Yes, I know my LP12 with Ittok is not really considered “high end” nowadays. There are numerous tables out there which are more highly regarded. In spite of the limitations of the Linn, the LCR phono stage extracts every ounce of music from the signal and conveys it so that the performer’s artistic intent is clearly conveyed. Detail, musical nuance, artistic choices, cohesion, the unity of an ensemble and so forth are beautifully conveyed. The line stage is similarly accomplished. Many musical pieces I previously thought simply boring or annoying have been transformed into something that holds my interest. While the accuracy and “hear-through” nature of the preamp enables the listener to “hear the hand” of the producer and recording engineer it doesn’t detract from the artistry of the performer. I’m not someone who switches equipment into and out of my system very often. I’ve owned my humble LP12 for nearly 30 years, my ESL63 speakers for five, my Naim CD 3.5 for more fifteen, and so on. I’ve seldom purchased new. Every piece of equipment I’ve owned has provided great long-term satisfaction. The Supratek is exceeding every prior experience and every expectation I had. I can’t envision any situation in which I’d replace it. It’s very good. |
@waltersalas I did not buy his amplifier. I am curious, but I ended up building my own First Watt F4 (25W class A, zero negative feedback). Since upgrading from Coincident Super Eclipse IIIs to Pure Reference Extremes, I’ve been trying to better my Coincident Frankenstein SET mono-blocks because the PREs need more power to shine (primarily in bass). I’ve tried a Lyngdorf TDAI-3400, Pass Labs XA25, and Atma-sphere M60s. In all cases, the Franks won out despite the improved bass performance. Eventually I decided to build an F4 to supplement my Franks as a booster amp on the PREs’ bass cabs. The F4 has no voltage gain and only provides current to the input signal. Surprisingly -- on these speakers -- the F4 was actually the best of all by itself. It has almost all of the inner detail of the Franks, but with the best bass control of the amplifiers I’ve tried. It’s also the clearest, with a super low noise floor and no discernible distortion. After discovering this, I sadly put my Franks up for sale (still available if anyone is interested), bought the parts to build a second F4 so I could have two 50W monoblocks, and ordered the Sachs preamp to provide voltage gain. Driving the F4 by itself, my dac maxes out at around 90db. I’m very surprised by this outcome, but I guess it’s just a situation of stumbling onto a really good amp/speaker match. I presume the F4 isn’t more widely loved because: a) it’s an older design not available new, and b) it shines best on an efficient speaker with a relatively flat impedance curve. I’m probably most surprised that it surpassed the Pass XA25 since that’s providing the same amount of power out of a newer, presumably better, circuit from the same designer. Just got lucky I guess... In the 6 moons review of the F4 the key descriptive phrase was: "relaxed ultra resolution." That is a brilliant description of its sound. My longer description is smooth, slightly sweet, and ultra clean with an enormous soundstage and great layering. Plus I can keep it on 24/7 and not have to fret about my tube life. Can’t wait to get the Sachs pre in the chain to see how it changes the sound. Music is already the best I’ve ever had and I’m hopeful for much more. |
@cal3713 Congrats on your purchase of the Don Sachs preamp. I'm waiting on one myself--in fact, he's working on mine this week and may be ready to ship in a few more days. Did you also buy his KT88 amp? I did, though it will be several more weeks before it is done, and therefore quite awhile before I can hear what kind of magic they make together. I figured, in for a penny, in for a pound. As for the Supratek, I have owned two of them, the Syrah and the Chenin and truly enjoyed them both. In fact, I'd say that selling the Chenin is one of my few regrets in audio. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one, though I would not be keen on shipping it back to Australia if it needed repair. Mick was great to work with and may well have tech support in the US. I don't know, but would check if I were buying one. This may well be a case where you can't go wrong. I certainly hope so anyway. Look forward to comparing notes on Don's preamp. |
We well I need to chime in on this thread and it’s been quite a while since I’ve posted anything on any audio site. I’ve owned a Supratek Syrah preamp for many years. I had one problem with the power button early on and contacted Mick. He quickly sent me another switch free of charge and I bought this preamp used. Excellent customer service. I have not heard Don Sach preamps, I bet they’re excellent. I can only speak for my Supratek which is probably going to be the last preamp I own. I tried many other preamps prior to the Supratek. I owned a Modwright SWL 9.0 preamp before this and kept it to directly compare. The Modwright had excellent detail extension and dynamics, but it was a little too clinical for me. The Supratek had all the detail extension and dynamic, plus it was bigger sounding, and natural. It doesn’t analyze. It just makes music and flows with emotion. I am a professional pianist and know what live music sounds like. I am very critical on the way it should sound. I still on my original tubes and it’s been over 10 years now I believe. I don’t think you can go wrong with these preamps. I’d bet if he had a dealer network they’d be three to four times more expensive. True bargain! |
The system sometimes creates false error prompt messages that indicate the contributor’s post was rejected when in fact it was not. It’s happened to me more than once, which usually prompts me to resubmit the post. I recommend copying one's text and exiting back to the thread to see if one’s post went onto the thread. |
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A bit long .. Have been out of A'gon for a while and accidentally bumped into this thread while checking something in Mick's site; felt I owe it to myself, my fellow audio hobbyists and to the truth to comment... Have been a Supratek user for over 14 years; my present Grange full function preamp is my third unit from Mick. Have had many communications with Mick over the years regarding fine tuning and "improvements" to my unit that the audiophile bug propelled me into... All of them were patiently and courteously attended by Mick although I suspect in retrospect that many of them seem very silly and unnecessary... A couple years back, after several mods, parts switching and "improvements" made to my unit by a local tech, my unit developed a problematic intermittent noise that no matter the many attempts to correct by various local techs could not get rid of... Because of the changes and mods to the unit, I was a bit reluctant to contact Mick, but nothing else worked so I finally did and candidly explained the situation hoping he could help my situation. Without hesitation he told me to send the unit to him that he would fix it... Long story shortened, a few weeks later I got my unit back with both the line and the phono circuits updated to current design while working around keeping some of the expensive parts I unjudiociously had put in and that he did not necessarily agreed with, but that after auditioning he considered were not detracting from the unit’s performance ... He charged a token amount for the updating of the circuits snd for the parts he added and replaced... I do not know of many other manufacturers that would had accepted the unit, corrected the damage I had caused, and upgraded the unit with the dedication and respect he did. He did much more than respond to a guarranty that he could had justifiably refused; that is my experience with Mick's lifetime guarranty... As to the internal wiring issue, to me it is a plus... the "spagheti" type layout (as he calls it)... is more robust, precise, efficient, optimized to the specific audio/performance goals, and more reliable; to me it looks more artisanal, more custom made, more "form follow function" type than the cold "cookie cutter" layouts some other PCB board designs present, no offense intended... For a more technical and detailed explanation refer to Mick's blog at http://supratekaudio.blogspot.com/2019/04/wiring.html I do not know Don Sach’s products; upon reading through this thread, went to its site and read about them... they seem a very interesting alternative... Made by whom seems a pasionate, dedicated proponent. A nicely presented, clean layout american made product at very realistic prices make them very worthy of consideration... I have met Ralph years back at an Audio show; he was a very nice, down to earth and delightfull gentleman. Have enjoyed his posts in A’gon through the years and his pasion and willingness to take time to share his, knowledge and experience with us, more common audio hobbyists ... On this occasion however, in my humble opinion, he crossed a bit the line of respect and consideration to a fellow manufacturer... Many years back a close friend was a dealer for Atmasphere so I have very well experienced various of his products closely. Recently I had at my system one of his preamps... Although I have some issues with the appearance and the high quantity of tubes of his products, I respect and consider Atmasphere pretty good audio products. I personally, however, would never prefer an Atmasphere preamp over any of Mick’s offerings. My personal preference... Again, in my opinion, if you are looking for a vivid, highly realistic and and balanced audio experience from a unit designed and build directly by the expert hands of a pasionate, audio artisan with 30+ years and hundreds of proven units all over the world, do yourself a favor and give serious consideration to Supratek... Sincerely and respectfully, Jose Rodriguez |