It's all a matter of degree of warmth. Warmth is most obvious for HF, but the rest of the freq range is affected as well. The most clarity/detail is enabled by neutrality. With a reasonably efficient speaker and music that doesn't demand very loud SPL's, the AHB2 is the best for clarity/detail. No risk if someone doesn't like it--return before 30 days to either Benchmark or a retailer. But the V has a 15% restocking fee.
Stock Voyager GaN amp (350/600) Contrasted with my EVS1200 (600/1200)
The Voyager (V) I received is well broken in, and as the title says, it is stock. An upgraded version will come later.
I let the V warm up for ~ 24 hours while I listened to my beloved EVS 1200 (~$2300) playing a wide variety of Redbook CDs; The Judds, Chris Issak Heart Shaped World, Leonard Cohen remastered collection, Willie Nelson Across the Borderline, the Eagles Hell Freezes Over, and Jennifer Nettles Playing with Fire (love the music, but the mastering has a few ear bleed cuts- or does it???). I capped the session off with Roger Waters Amused to Death SACD, a huge, occasionally very dynamic, and intentionally phasey recording. While I enjoyed the hell out this listening session, but afixed in my mind was reading others reporting on their not fully broken in V amps frequently mentioning detail/clarity, the music via the EVS 1200 wasn't as focused as I felt it should, but have accepted for 2 years, as it easily outperformed my PS Audio M700s (MSRP $4000), FYI, their M1200s are based on the same IceEdge AS1200 modules as my EVS 1200, but untouched. They simply added their own tube input stage (MSRP $7000), and Audio Alchemys DPA-1 ($2000), wish I could have tried the monos ($4000), but...
Could the lack of focus be elsewhere, like the Wire World Electra 7 Power Conditioning cord ($240), connected to my Audio Alchemy DDP-1 + PS 5, which is IMO, my weakest PC, all the others are $700+, or my $150 Pangea XL coax cable? How would the V stack up? Im thinking it can't be THAT much better, and what about the huge power disparity in my ~ 26 x 38 X 12 lively room with lots of glass and open beam ceilings, which adds up to brightness?
I connected the V, but didn't want to start with any of the same discs, just in case the V needed to see some signal before being ready for the comparison, so I chose Getz/Gilberto Jobim and Astrud Gilberto SACD as a nice way to ease into the Voyager. I haven't listened to this disc in months, so no recent memory to taint hearing it now. Did I say 'ease'. Silly me.
I'll cut to the chase hear/here, from the first note, it was obvious that this is a special amp, but at $3500 MSRP? OMG: What a steal!!! The focus reminds me of how much sharper and with greater depth of field pictures taken with Leica camera lens are, compared to all other cameras and lenses. GaNs magic is the equivalent of Tesla EV motor speed- immediate: The V grabbed me from the first note.
More to come after I go through the Redbook CDs that I started with, but I already know it's a moot point. And wilder, still, LSA has already made a few tweaks, like the internal wiring for an additional $175.
Ric Schultz was right when he said expensive amps will be boat anchors
I let the V warm up for ~ 24 hours while I listened to my beloved EVS 1200 (~$2300) playing a wide variety of Redbook CDs; The Judds, Chris Issak Heart Shaped World, Leonard Cohen remastered collection, Willie Nelson Across the Borderline, the Eagles Hell Freezes Over, and Jennifer Nettles Playing with Fire (love the music, but the mastering has a few ear bleed cuts- or does it???). I capped the session off with Roger Waters Amused to Death SACD, a huge, occasionally very dynamic, and intentionally phasey recording. While I enjoyed the hell out this listening session, but afixed in my mind was reading others reporting on their not fully broken in V amps frequently mentioning detail/clarity, the music via the EVS 1200 wasn't as focused as I felt it should, but have accepted for 2 years, as it easily outperformed my PS Audio M700s (MSRP $4000), FYI, their M1200s are based on the same IceEdge AS1200 modules as my EVS 1200, but untouched. They simply added their own tube input stage (MSRP $7000), and Audio Alchemys DPA-1 ($2000), wish I could have tried the monos ($4000), but...
Could the lack of focus be elsewhere, like the Wire World Electra 7 Power Conditioning cord ($240), connected to my Audio Alchemy DDP-1 + PS 5, which is IMO, my weakest PC, all the others are $700+, or my $150 Pangea XL coax cable? How would the V stack up? Im thinking it can't be THAT much better, and what about the huge power disparity in my ~ 26 x 38 X 12 lively room with lots of glass and open beam ceilings, which adds up to brightness?
I connected the V, but didn't want to start with any of the same discs, just in case the V needed to see some signal before being ready for the comparison, so I chose Getz/Gilberto Jobim and Astrud Gilberto SACD as a nice way to ease into the Voyager. I haven't listened to this disc in months, so no recent memory to taint hearing it now. Did I say 'ease'. Silly me.
I'll cut to the chase hear/here, from the first note, it was obvious that this is a special amp, but at $3500 MSRP? OMG: What a steal!!! The focus reminds me of how much sharper and with greater depth of field pictures taken with Leica camera lens are, compared to all other cameras and lenses. GaNs magic is the equivalent of Tesla EV motor speed- immediate: The V grabbed me from the first note.
More to come after I go through the Redbook CDs that I started with, but I already know it's a moot point. And wilder, still, LSA has already made a few tweaks, like the internal wiring for an additional $175.
Ric Schultz was right when he said expensive amps will be boat anchors
111 responses Add your response
Having recently upgraded my machina dynamica springs reveals that the V is a chameleon. My V has 4 sorbothane devices glued onto the V, and as can be expected, the overall sound was slightly slow and muffled, which immediately opened up the V. Each replacement was followed by listening to the same few songs (in this case Rickie Lee Jones Naked Songs. Next under the DDPA-1 pre/dac. Both were revealing more clarity, so I ordered 3 more sets. First, I strategically placed 2 of them directly under the Oppo laser and the upgraded LPM toroid. Again a major improvement, then under the PS 5 outboard PS for the DDP-1. And lastly, under the 2 outboard XOs. At $26/set of 4, this is an absolute bargain. I also have 2 more sets coming which will allow me to take my EP 3.4s off the Harbor Freight dollys, which will lower the 12" concentric driver to better meet my ear level from the chair. After all were placed I then slightly increased the volume on the powered subs plate amps (some 10+ years old) to hear what impact that would have on the bass. Doing so was a mixed bag. Better would be to have a quality active XO. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08MT1R4KZ?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details hth |
The Voyager I have here to mod has EAR feet (rubbery type) that are mounted by screws. Sorbothane is a particular brand of material. EAR has their own formula. Here is what is on the Voyager I have here: https://www.partsconnexion.com/EAR-55839.html Neutrality can be all over the place because no one does straight wire bypass tests on amplifiers. Some call an am neutral when it has no natural warmth........what is natural warmth? Just your guess. I think you can have an amp that has natural warmth and super detail. The question is.....does the Benchmark have natural warmth.....or does it lack natural warmth? Again as you say......the degree of warmth. Then there is matching your whole system....two components that have a lack of warmth and you have no soul. So, if you have one that lacks....then you need another that adds to come back to neutral. I remember Michael Fremer's review of the Boulder mono blocks....he compared them to his Dartzeel amps. He praised the Boulders for being so detailed and dynamic.....but at the end of the review......he called them "dry".....saying they let go of the note to soon (not enough decay). People have said the same about the Benchmark......is it true? |
ricevs, Let me try to answer your observations-- "Neutrality can be all over the place because no one does straight wire bypass tests on amplifiers. Some call an amp neutral when it has no natural warmth........what is natural warmth? Just your guess. I think you can have an amp that has natural warmth and super detail. The question is.....does the Benchmark have natural warmth.....or does it lack natural warmth? Again as you say......the degree of warmth." Words are poor approximations of what we hear. I want as much transparency as I can get. Can we objectify "transparency?" YES--do the bypass test with and without the line stage between the source and power amp. Assuming no impedance mismatches, the totally transparent line stage will have no effect on the sound compared to source direct to power amp. With all of the line stages and preamps I have tried over the years, when the line stage was added, there was a loss of transparency/detail and INCREASE IN WARMTH. That is the best definition of warmth I can come up with, and you know what I am talking about. On a more subtle level, you have found that different wires exhibit this phenomenon. I'll speculate that the shorter length of any wire, the better and more transparent it is. Eliminating contact points as from your binding post alternative no doubt increases transparency, and I will speculate that it also decreases warmth. See the next paragraph. However, NATURAL warmth has nothing to do with audio systems, but it is a characteristic of some live unamplified instruments and voices in a certain acoustical setting. The warmth in audio systems is NOT natural; it is just plain euphonic distortion with loss of information. Some have attributed this to even order 2nd or 4th harmonic distortion in tubes and tubelike SS electronics. Also see my latest 2 posts on Jay's thread on this subject. |
+2 @grannyring I have never seen anyone as desperate to prove themselves right as viber6. He has over 1500 posts on Jay's amplifier thread, all saying pretty much the same thing. It is truly sad to observe. Now he is preaching it on this thread. Live music is a physical, visceral, experience. Or as you put it, it has muscularity and meat on the bones when heard live. I have heard plenty of acoustic instruments live. Inside, outside, it doesn't really matter. Pretty much all of them are visceral. If a system creates a sound that is thin and thread bare without visceral impact, which someone clearly loves, I have zero interest. It doesn't sound like real, live music to me. |
Muscularity, meat on the bones…Density? Audiophiliac on YT did an episode a while ago addressing what, in his view, is needed for hifi to go that last bit toward the ultimate goal of sounding like live (presumably un-amplified) music. Aka, lifelike. He posited: Density. Maybe Density, Muscularity and Meat on the bones are describing the same thing? I dunno. The last two seem like the same—anatomically, at least. Lol. |
+3 granny Density is the precise word I could not pull from my brain when I instead said the Voyager couples better to my room. Also, no matter what the instrument I want to hear the leading edge of the notes as well as the body of the instrument, plus the harmonics and decay. The Voyager is capable of doing those far better than any amp I can recall owning, with 2 very distant possible exceptions being the Accoustat servo tube amps and a Kinetics KB 75 class A amp. I say capable, as the ability to sound live is recording dependent hth |
Totally correct--"Also, no matter what the instrument I want to hear the leading edge of the notes as well as the body of the instrument, plus the harmonics and decay." All these are attributes of live music. However, in audio systems which lose detail at all frequencies, "body" is dominant over fine detail. The audio system "body" is usually fuzzy, distorted mush, most notably from euphonic tube amps and most dynamic speakers. There is a difference between live unamplified instrumental "body" and this audio mush, which people with insufficient live unamplified musical experience do not fathom. |
Technics Integrated Review TAS https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/technics-su-r1000-integrated-amplifier?mc_cid=2c9d21110f&a... |
grannyring, Just listen carefully to natural live unamped music and nonmusical sounds of nature. The "tight" body of the live piano is like an anvil being hit with a hammer/mallet. The tightness of the bouncing basketball, the scary body of thunder all make audio system bass/midrange sound like a wet loose noodle. Have you heard a French horn or tuba up close? Their "body" is tight, focused, with quite a bit of HF overtones which contribute to the focus. By contrast, and by COMPARISON, the dynamic drivers and euphonic electronics of certain audio systems contribute mush and fuzz. This is not a debatable observation for armchair discussion. You either hear it or you don't, depending on your familiarity with live unamped sounds. |
Viber6, How do you know what he assumes? Are you a mind reader? The review is poor....plain and simple. No comparisons.....no real listening information. Just another money making review to please the advertisers. I am not cynical.....I just see what is at various levels. At the level of mammon....it is not pretty. At the level of spirit it is forever beautiful. |
Ricevs, Yes, the review contained no comparisons, which we all wanted. He is an old man, so may not want to bother. Still, his few words are informative, like the amp being uncolored. This is much more informative than a typical young reviewer going off on his emotional tangents saying how a component gives him peace and improves his relationship with his friend, etc. That one word, "uncolored" is enough for the interested listener to go hear the amp somewhere, and better yet, try it himself. All too often, audiophiles hang on the every word of the reviewer as though he were a mystical guru. All these reviewers are full of BS. The best source of info is threads like this, where the owner doesn't have a business interest in the product which would bias his statements. In particular, yyz and tweak1 have done great jobs telling us honestly what they hear, comparing AHB2 and EVS1200 to Voyager/Peachtree. When they tell us the effects of your mods, the advertising bias and increasing uselessness of the mags will be further exposed. |
I’ve long felt AC was a hack reviewer, never not liking a product in decades of reviews (yes, it’s a double negative, but, in this case I think it makes the point clearer), but in this review his comments about the Technics mirrored my own with the Voyager, which is why I posted it, to help answer viber’s questions, and Im sure others. Last night I listened to a very very old favorite, Barbara Joan Streisand Columbia 1971 remastered from original tapes. Never ever has it sounded so life like, open, effortless, and dare I say; non digital. IMO (and to be fair, GeorgeFi all along, switching speed is a BFD), and quite likely the primary difference between it and my long beloved EVS1200. There is no going back Not the remaster: https://www.amazon.com/Barbra-Joan-Streisand/dp/B0000024XL hth |
@tweak1:
switching speed is a BFDThen how do you explain AGD's Audion at only 400kHz - at least the first gen? Granted, it's now at 800kHz in its second gen but the first gen is universally praised for SQ. I've said it in other threads: Alberto has an inside track on this technology and is way ahead of the game. Sure, other manufacturers will "brute force" it with higher speeds and even George's holy grail of 1.5MHz. But, Alberto's TOTAL design is smarter and superior to others and it shows in SQ. A telling comparison would be between Technics SE-R1 and the Audion. |
Merrill W. in his Element GaN's, told me that LOWER switching speed is actually better. This is because dead time is a fixed constant for the particular transistor, so if there is lower switching speed, there is a longer time before switching needs to occur, or that the fraction of time spent doing the switching is lower with a lower freq of switching. His GaN's use a switching speed of 400 kHz. That aside, I agree with art_boston who implies that the overall design is far more important than any 1 factor, such as switching speed. |
In case you're not following the LSA thread: posted by Mark from Corepower clearing the air on the Voyager design... Just felt that as this point I needed to send along a few points. Not here in any way to argue or attempt to interpret anything about the Voyager as said by others. I will however mention a few points as it relates to us. There were two of us involved from the very beginning of POC and Module Testing from the very beginning. That would be Doug Goldberg and myself beginning in 2015 (yes... you read that right) Post these early tests which included some AMAZING higher power modules... my friends Peter Madnick, EJ Sarmento and later, Dr Viet Nguyen contributed to findings and feedback. This is especially true for EJ and Peter. We have all tested and participated in DIRECT FEEDBACK with the maker. I have known this incredible guy I've known for well over 30 years. There were several suggestions made during the dev process on the lower power version of this module. This one was the 200 watt version. Walter ultimately decided that he wanted to go with the Higher Power Version which did slow us a bit. There were many (read please MANY) revs of the original module. If memory serves - 5 in total, and a huge amount of man-hours testing and listening. I personally have probably near to 300 hours in test and listening to the 200 watt version and then over 100 more with the current module. The team that developed these modules and SMPS are some of the brightest super-power Engineers known (to me or otherwise). A real Dream Team. Lots of decisions were made along to way productizing The Voyager GaN 350. I'm proud of the product, and I know our team is as well. This is a very special amplifier. Walter stuck to the program and our end users are reporting some fine results. Best wishes, Mark |
I think you confused what I meant. All I meant is higher switching speeds is/are a big deal No, I understood what you mean. I am saying it's NOT a big deal if the rest of the design is "optimal". AGD is closest to optimal, so far. Obviously, there's was more to be had from the 1st gen (400) as their 2nd gen is up in SF (800). Does this increase result in dramatic improvement in SQ? I don't hink so, just incremental. What's the Voyager's SF? |
400K......and it sounds way good. Feedback smeadback.....Frequency of switching (FS) = BS........hehe. The only thing that matters is how something sounds. Listen, then you will know. The expensive Merrill GaN amps switch at 400K. However, I do think that higher switching speeds could give better sound....AGD, Nuprime and New Class D.....claim it does. Everything matters. So, no matter what the feedback is or the FS (SF) is......it all comes down to execution......comes down to listening....got to be tweaked to the max. One thing will not bring the whole....the whole brings the whole....and there are a lot of things to do right in the whole. |
Came across these iso devices from Korea. Haven’t found the price yet, but they look PRICEY https://www.monoandstereo.com/2021/08/hifstay-hardpoint-trinia-vibration.html I think I have 3 Maple Shade brass triple points and Herbies Hush Puckies with brass centers. I will swap these out for the springs under my Voyager |
One of my supreme torture CDs is Annie Lennox Medusa. My jaw dropped as I played it all the way through. The V has unraveled all that was wrong with all the class D amps I've owned, including the EVS 1200, which I suspect is the Switching Speed Although I've been using a 1"+ x 6 x 12ish heavy marble slab on top, when i tried to replace the springs with Mapleshade triple points and Herbies cups, I could hear the ringing. This morning I am going to remove the lid, as I did previously with both my EVS 1200 and Oppo 105 Ric says he is adding vibration deadening material to the Vs he's modding |
Ric - you should know better. The (good) Mad Scientist feet are underneath and a 25 pound weight on top. I'm the one with the bad feet. Any recommendation other than my orthotics and Hoka Bondi 7s?:) OK - the rest of me doesn't look so great either:) I will be posting more about what we listened on both amps to and perhaps more. The EVS 1200 is going to a secondary system (Selah Audio SA-2s and a Rel Strata III sub) and I am waiting on a used Teac UD-503 (which I will use with a mini fanless PC and JRiver) as the Teac has volume control and an analog input (so I can have fun with my modded Carver C-9 Sonic Hologram Generator unit being fed by an Oppo 103D, which is connected to my network). Canada Post is estimating delivery on October 27 as of right now. In addition, since my friend comes over most weeks, I've been helping him with recommendations for his system. At one point quite a while back, I brought over my Teac UD-501 (which I don't own any longer) to compare to his Schiit Audio Multibit DAC. He got rid of that his separate Schitt Audio headphone amp and bought a used Teac UD-503 (which he indicated smoked his old stuff and I made some cables for him to get rid of his Blue Jeans ones someone recommended to him) and now has an Apollon Audio IcePower amp in a shallow depth case (which he needed). So this will also allow him to hear things on similar electronics as he will likely be eventually building speakers with the help of a friend of his. Note that I'm only posting in this thread (vs. the others) and observation between the two amps. As some of you aware, there may be an uneducated individual (or perhaps more than one) who just don't want to understand that Class D now is not the same as it was a few years ago. There are those that have had relatioships in the audio industry who just want to protect those who may be selling things at retail which may cost (e.g 2-4 times) more vs. commenting from actual experience of using the product (and one really can't comment on what another hears or does not hear - well I guess one can comment but in some cases we know why). I have also discussed with Tweak1 about potential bringing down the modded Voyager (he's a hair more than 2.5 hours south of me) after he gets and breaks in new speakers. As with any evaluation of sound in one's system, the user will generally select recordings of their choosing (my friend who came over last night and wanted one additional song added to the list I made up last week which he was fine with) which they are familiar with in order to evaluate the system. Some feel the need to comment on the music selection as if it is a diner meny and they can order what they want. For those and for those that fit in that category or of the prior paragraph, you may have a future as a back seat driver. Please visit indeed dot com and best of luck with the job search:) |
Anyway - this is to follow-up a bit more. Got too much to do to get to a video (I'm so far behind on listening to music I bought and I bought two more downloads today and won't get to them for a bit as I have a USB cable on the way as part of a tour and I'll just have a week with that) and it's not quite Halloween so we wouldn't want to scare that many people. The modded Voyager is clearly better vs. the EVS 1200. The only thing I would have done if I had the mod done is leave the switch in and that's just my personal situation with having an integrated AV system. The Voyage has better soundstaging, tonality, bass, etc. On some of the recordings I heard things that were less present on the EVS. The playlist used (we later listened to other things one the Voyager) was as follows (PCM recording were all in FLAC and anyone is free to look up the reccording chain to their satisfaction - one of the cuts was from one of my favorite record labels - Sound Liasons - https://www.soundliaison.com/index.php and the cut used can be seen here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kf_S2l3Y_lM). 1) Private Investigations – Dire Straits 24/44.1 2) Liberty – Anette Askvik 24/48 3) I Remember You – Eilen Jewell 16/44.1 4) Fistful of Swoon – Vandaveer 16/44.1 5) Dance Me to the End of Time – Madeliene Peryoux 16/44.1 6) A Fool for You – Carmen Gomes Inc. 24/352 7) Tin Pan Alley – Stevie Ray Vaughan single rate dsf 8) Eleanor McEvoy – Mercy Mercy Me single rate dsf 9) A Case of You – Cristina Branco 16/44.1 10) Shostakovich Symph 10 In E Min, Op.93 : 3. Allegretto – Nelsons Boston SO 24/96 11) Libertango – Michel Camilo & Tomatito 16/44.1 The first two were used on Jay's comparisons and to get a bit of a frame of reference vs. his descriptions of the difference between the Rouge audio amp and his mystery 200W Class A monoblocks. The next two involved artists I've seen live in my favorite small club (which is now out of business - https://www.arlnow.com/2017/09/08/breaking-iota-club-closing-this-month/). I've listened to those cuts many times (as with most of the rest of them) and can be seen here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqu9MSfBPN8 and here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lby_GXOrNLU since many probably have not heard those). Tin Pan Alley is of course live. On the Vanadeer cut for example, there was greater definition in the soundstage where the singers were standing (vs. what I heard before). All in all it's a keeper for me and some of the more traditional (but now the ultra high end as in Jay's system) high end brands which cost more money are in for great competition for those interested in doing the comparison (vs. a brag factor that what they have costs more). |
Very cool review. Eventually I will get a modded V, but Im very happy with the stock one, especially once I lifted the chassis off the rubber feet with Nobsound springs and took the top off. It would still likely benefit from some damping material. Also, I would like to hear the stock V with the 2.8s as I am quite familiar with it 2.8s: Slight delay (I hope) to finally getting the 2.8s: quite possibly next week. For those who may not know, they are still at CDC warehouse in Miami after the truck they were shipped in was found to have BARRELS OF toxic illegal drug chemicals (the truck driver is doing time). This was just before the lock downs and January 6th, which had the CDC guy in charge quite busy |
cascadesphil, How about midrange and HF clarity, speed, transparency from the modded Voyager vs EVS 1200 (approximately a modded Rouge Studio N10-DM)? I am in touch with Rouge. The Pascal modules are claimed to be superior to IceEdge for clarity/neutrality. My Mytek Brooklyn Amp original version uses modified lower power Pascal modules. The Mytek is a sharper, leaner sound than the Studio IceEdge Rouge, which is still neutral but fuller in bass with full dynamics, as Jay had found. The upcoming Pascal MPRO2 module is stable to 2 ohms. The available MPRO2 has the highest clarity with analytical quality, but it is designed for speakers with minimum load of 4 ohms. |
All those things are better on the modded Voyager. It is just in another league. My friend thought I was crazy when I told him I'm buying it as my system sounded so good. Keeping the EVS though. Now in a secondary system. At some point (waiting on roofing issues), the main system will be apart for a bit until painting gets done and I'll be using the secondary system as my main audio system for a bit. I don't know how the Rouge sounds (or what they use for everything internally). All I can say is I had a Mivera SE, (with the one half inch thick front and rear panels which were not made throughout the run of SE amps and he stopped making those) and everything possible upgraded, including two Synergistic Research Blue fuses (I added later) and the EVS was in a totally different league. Others heard it as well over my place. The (modded) Voyager is yet in another league. I broke the EVS in using a secondary system (and for a drop before I got the EVS I tried the Mivera in there and the Mivera was in that system for well over a year and I sold the Mivera a bit over a month ago) and the Mivera which imaged nicely, sounded flat vs. the EVS. So while I haven't heard the Rouge, which obviously did well in Jay's comparison (was it something like 43% thought it was better? And yes I understand the internet can't capture what is in the room), I'd think the EVS would have done better as besides upgrades to the internals, the modules themselves were modded (by the mad professor). There are others that Ric sold the amp to and compared it to the stock Mivera (I believe one of Ric's customers had a couple of Mivera amps and used them in mono to compare the to EVS). Yyz, who sold me the modded Voyager informed me he offered it to Jay and I'm not sure how much time elapsed, but when I bought it I don't believe Jay got back to him. It was also noted in Jay's thread (by ricevs on October 7) " What would be really cool is if Phil would bring over his EVS1200 and the modded Voyager he is about to receive to Jay’s place and they could do a four way shoot out with the stock Rouge and the Block Monos (make sure you use good footers under the class D amps....not the stock feet). You could do this in a few hours and then make a video where you both comment on the differences.....none of this silly 3 minute song A/Bs of unknown amps please. Just tell us what you hear. We trust you. You could then play a minute or two of the best of the three versus the Block....for reference. This would be very informational for many." I also noted on that day (in Jay's thread) " So as far as any shootouts that Jay wants to do, that is up to Jay." I'd guess I'm under 3 hours from Jay (and noted that) So I guess we'll really never know the answer. I appreciated what Jay did. What it showed to me is that the Rouge performed very well and how much additional money got things to another level. Jay also noted that everything before the amps contributed to the sound and it is the same in my place. I use a Lumin U1 music server and an EMM Labs DAC 2X (version 2) along with a Modwright LS36.5DM. I currently have the EVS in a system with a Sherbourn Pre-1 and a Teac UD-503 DAC. Those just aren't in the same league as what is in the main system. |
Viber - btw - the link to the Purifi mods (which I suspect would be similar if not identical) and review of them are on the EVS website - http://tweakaudio.com/EVS-2/Purifi_amp_mods.html Ric also does mods to IcePower amps, including the Rouge - http://tweakaudio.com/EVS-2/IceEdge_amp_mods.html I believe when I talked to him last (probably about almost a couple of months back), he had done mods to other IcePower amp brands (e.g. Mivera) to essentially do to them what he did with the EVS 1200. Everyone's priorities are different when it comes to upgrades. Some may not want to keep an amp or not touch it until the warranty is over. Others may want to upgrade what they perceive to be more important weak links in their system (or in the case of crazy me - systems) whether those are electronics (e.g. preamp, amp, DAC), cables or other tweaks (e.g. footers, fuses). Everyone has different priorities and budgets (not everyone is named Jay and can do what he does). A case in point is my friend who comes over most Thursday nights. We usually listen to music on the main system. Once in a bit, we'll do a movie or we'll listen to music on a secondary system. I'll also from time to time go over his place to let him hear something. I did that with my Mivera SE amp (which I sold about a month and a half back) and he needed a case with shallow depth for his set-up and he ended up with an Apollon IcePower stereo amp like this one -https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/apollon-audio-as1200-review-stereo-power-... I've also brought over tweaks and things like USB cables I've had in secondary system. He was blown away last Thursday by the one I have on a tour now (Hapa Audio AerO) which blew away a very nice cable of another brand (which is now in the system with the EVS 1200 going from a small fanless PC to my DAC) and I have one of the cables I auditioned on order. If I get over to Tweak1's at some point (he is waiting on new speakers), I'm sure there will be additional comments he can offer between the EVS 1200, stock Voyager and modded Voyager. If he still has the stock one in his possession at that point, I can hear that as well. The purpose of threads like this (and that's why I posted here vs. the others) is to give feedback on actual hands on experience with details about the music and components in play. To me it is of no value to listen to someone rant why something is no good based on some theory they believe (and they are free to believe anything) vs. having real experience with a product. |
Just let me know when and if you're ready. No rush and no biggie. Just had a job over the weekend cramming the components into the back-up system. The EVS 1200 in that system had to sit in front of the entertainment unit and the little PC running JRiver behind the monitor/TV. All up and running and sounding really nice, although not in the same league as the main system. Now I have a couple of more systems to adjust (hook up and move stuff) where all the shifting of stuff around. Then I'm done for a bit (after the new USB cable gets here in a week or so). The room where the EVS now sits is not big (about 11x13 and not rectangular - the doorway at the front and closet in the back are at angles) and the power is lots more than necessary. Using Selah Audio SA2s (7 inch Seas woofer and Fountek ribbon tweeter) hooked to a Rel Strata III sub. |
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I just messaged tweak1, and I hope you get together and A/B the stock Voyager with your modded Voyager in each other's systems. There are many variables you discussed, so if you guys can keep it simple and constant, you can figure out what the mods do, pro and con." As Tweak1 noted, he doubts he will have the stock Voyager but has heard the EVS vs. the stock Voyager and it should be a good frame of reference whenever he's ready (it's probably a bit over 2.5 hrs. south of me). He's welcome to come to my place at anytime. I'd imagine my new USB cable (leaving one off since it is a pain to do) will be here about a week from today. |
I'd also like to point out that when I give an opinion, whether one sitting in my room would agree or not (and I would put Tweak1 in the same light), it is my opinion without any financial incentives received from anyone in audio industry. It is common practice in the audio industry to offer accomodation sales (some manufacturers may not do it on certain products, usually more reasonably priced ones, if there is not much of a profit margin and often these sales are at less than dealer cost). These accomodation sales are typically made to people in the industry, including, but not limited to, sales people working in a store for an audio dealer, audio dealers for their personal use, reviewers, audio manufacturers, people holding themselves out as providing audio consulting services, etc. So when comments are made by some, readers really should take this into account. It's not that any of them are horrible people. It's a business (e.g. https://www.wboc.com/story/44389434/global-consumer-electronics-market-analysis-till-2027-sales-reve... ) with big dollars at stake. Someone may praise a $100k amplifier but if is something they got as an accomodation sale for $50k, with an agreement to not re-sell it within a year (and it is not uncommon for someone to sell such things and make some extra money either), there's a difference between that an a genuine hobbyist who's just crazy. Some sites will be a bit more forthcoming and disclose that there are financial interests (e.g. https://6moons.com/audioreview/) and others may be silent on the issue. Not criticizing the way things work or anyone, but just stating reality. I think too often people forget about this. As noted within this thread, that's why I posted here vs. some of the others to strictly report my observations between the two amps as well as my personal experience with my own system vs. debate those who have industry connections and either expouse with very limited or perhaps no experience that all class D amps suck or other things which their persoanl interests do not allow them to be impartial. I've noted I've own some more expensive amps that I didn't care for as much and have had friends in the room that came to the same conclusion. I've got nothing against the brands I didn't care for as they are good companies. |
Adding this link to a review of the Audio Alchemy DDP-1 + PS 5. These have been in my system for several years, and I find them hard to replace without spending a lot more, though I would love to hear R2R but it would need a similar HQ analog volume control. The reason I am posting this is a guy is selling this pair for $1695 on another site. Here's the link to one of the reviews. If you are interested, just do a search
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