It has been known for ages that humans are subject to a circadian rhythm, a daily cycle that affects how our bodies and minds work at different times of day and night. I would not find it surprising at all that our perception of sound is also subject to this pattern, though the result and reaction would probably not be the same for different individuals.
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What is it with this urge to explain away the things we hear? Not explain- explain away. The implication is you didn't really hear what you know perfectly darn well you did. It didn't really happen. You only think that it did.
Poppycock!
If it was circadian rhythm then turning the system on stone cold in the middle of the night would sound better. There. See how easy it is to debunk this kind of thinking?
Okay so first off its not the speakers that sound good late at night. The speakers simply happen to be the end of the line where the sound comes out. But all speakers do is output the sound they are fed. So if the speakers sound better odds are its got at least as much to do with the sound going into the speakers as the speakers themselves.
The question then really is, why does the system sound brighter late at night? I rather doubt it sounds brighter by the way. Never heard that myself. More likely if you listen closely you'll realize its the upper registers being presented much more cleanly and clearly than usual, with greater clarity and extension. Not quite the same thing as brighter, which is nothing more than a louder or tipped up top end.
Whatever, the question really is, why? Why would there be any difference at all?
Several possibilities. Probably all together have something to do with it.
One, the system very likely has been on a long time. Mine continues to improve for hours and hours. Its easy to hear, and happens regardless of time of day. When the guys came up from Portland recently I left things on and got up early and warmed everything up so good it sounded better in the middle of the day than it usually does later in the evening. So that's one.
Another is line noise. Everything connected to the grid is connected to every other thing connected to the grid. Just how far away this effect extends I don't know. But I do know without a doubt things done to my meter 100 ft from my room have equal impact to things done right there in the room. Or if you don't buy that how about RFI? Radio waves are everywhere, and not just from radio stations radio refers to the frequency not the content. All kinds of chips and things generate RFI. Every wire is an antenna picking it up. Even if you believe your power conditioner has the magical ability to provide perfectly pristine power there's still all the wire between the conditioner and your system. Every wire an antenna. You'd have to put a Faraday cage around your whole room to even put a dent in it.
Finally, and this is a new one I have to credit Max Townshend: seismic. The ground itself moves and not just from tremors or earthquakes (which on a micro scale are happening pretty much 24/7) but also the ground moving from cars and wind blowing on trees and buildings. All this stuff sends vibrations coursing through the earth into our homes and right up into our systems. Proving this is a problem is as simple as putting springs under your speakers and amp and stuff.
"Okay, there you go again, millercarbon," I can practically hear people saying, "But so what? What's the diff?" Great question. Glad you asked. Happy to answer.
If you buy into the explainer-awayer line then not only is there nothing to be done, but there is nothing that can be done. Its in your head. Its your circadian rhythm. Its your double-blind bias. Whatever. Never mind. These are not the droids you're looking for.
But, if you buy into any or all of the "yes we actually hear it" stories this means there are real things you can do to improve your system in the here and now: leave things on longer, work to improve power and reduce opportunities for noise to get in, and put things on springs.
The choice is yours. Choose wisely. |
I know it's a lot quieter at night at my house. I can hear and feel the train which is about 1500 yard at the closest point. At night I can really hear it if I listen.. I figured it was all the background noise that wasn't there in the day..
It sure makes for a quieter listening session, if the gear is warmed up and it's after 1:00 until about 3:30. My oh My. The WiFi is shut down from 0001 to 0600, along with a few other things, refer (doesn't come on), fan motors, all the crap.. LOT cleaner grid...
Between the two...a lot better, cleaner SQ
Regards |
Yep, there's usually less vibrations and less residual background noise.
You might also feel more relaxed and able to focus better on the sound.
For many years I used to feel that my car drove much quieter and smoother at night. It was like, wow I never realised what a good car this was.
Next morning, it was back to being plain Cinderella again.
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Do not have this problem however were i live we have or own power plant. |
Things sound better at night, not brighter. Brighter ≠ better. |
It just occurred to me how we could perhaps test this idea. I see a lot of youtube videos of people's high end systems playing. You get to hear their system, sort of. It's obviously a flawed method, but it can tell you some important things like bass response and overall room sound. If the music sounds clean and natural in a recording like that you know that the system has to be working pretty darn well. With that in mind, might it be possible to catch the difference in sound by recording in the daytime and then with everything set exactly the same record again at night? Any major changes in the sound should be picked up by the recordings. |
"What is it with this urge to explain away the things we hear? Not explain- explain away. The implication is you didn't really hear what you know perfectly darn well you did. It didn't really happen. You only think that it did.
Poppycock! "
millercarbon, I firmly believe from my own experience that there can be profound differences in perception of the same sound at different times due to the state of mind of the listener. Some people, perhaps yourself, may be better at purely objective listening than others. I know my limits and have to be careful. Flying an airplane in clouds taught me really quickly that my inner ear sense of up and down is not well fixed, but is highly calibrated by what my eyes are seeing and what the rest of my body is feeling. I've experienced my sense of timbral balance change significantly at times. I came home one time after a long drive and turned on my system. The bass was severely lacking. I measured. It measured just fine. I listened to the same music on my headphones using an entirely different battery operated playback chain and the bass still sounded thin. It had to be my perception being temporarily altered, not the equipment output changing. |
Why is that surprising? Food tastes better/(ok--different) in the evening. Sex is better/different. Drugs are better/(different). Falling asleep is different. Having a phone conversation is different. Why shouldn't music sound better/(different)? |
All fine and well. If you say you can't tell your up from your down then fine, I believe you. If something sounds wrong and you need a meter because you can't figure out its because your ears have been hammered by a long car trip, okay, fine. I believe you. Totally.
Here's the thing. Why are you unable to make the same allowance? Why are you incapable of imagining anyone else being able to do something, simply because you cannot? If someone describes a Michael Jordan dunk it would never even occur to me to try and explain it away with a long diatribe on how incapable I am of making even a foul shot. Whole bunch of people are quite certain he flew 20 feet through the air around three other guys looping the ball behind his back and swoosh through the net. Sometimes incredible things we ourselves never could do in a million years, the next guy makes it look easy.
That's the way it is with me and music. And that's the way it is with a lot of other people too. Don't try and explain it away. Deal with it.
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Direct receptors of light? Yep.
Charles Ott proved that way back when - trouble was, psychology was even less of a science then, than it is now. I used to demonstrate some of his effects to students, just for devilment. |
There is a difference between having the same type of skills as other people, just better or much better and claiming to have skills that are beyond our genetics and physical capabilities including the way our memory works.
It is like so called photographic memory which does not actually exist. People who claim that makes mistakes on recall and their memory is prone to suggestion just like anyone else. They do have better memory but not photographic.
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You mean Dr. John Nash Ott and while he discovered links to human health and light spectrum he did not discover the light sensors in our eyes that regulate circadian rhythm nor extraocular light effects via the ear which does not appear to directly effect mood but has mechanisms, perhaps chemical based, that helps SAD and does generate a mild brain wave change.
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Quite right. Memory failed on the first name. Ott may not have discovered the cells, but he identified numerous effects, which no-one took seriously for years and years. |
Here's the thing. Why are you unable to make the same allowance? Why are you incapable of imagining anyone else being able to do something, simply because you cannot?
millercarbon, I know people can do things I can't do, and can hear things I can't hear. You may have better hearing than I do. You may be much less subject to perceptual shifts than I am. But that doesn't definitively explain what bwang29 is experiencing. I don't perceive speakers to sound brighter at night. Do you? If they really are producing brighter sound, then that should be easily measurable. If the brightness is really there but it's not measurable, then we have an interesting question of what exactly it means for the brightness to really be there vs it being a perceptual effect caused by the state of the listener's physiology. |
The only thing that will change "brightness" of a speaker at night would be a change in relative humidity coupled with a bigger room and moreso with limited absorption.
A poorly designed amp sensitive to AC voltage but seems unlikely.
More likely it is a day that thas desensitized you to low frequencies.
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