Speaker Recommendation Help Please.

Nicely detailed post!  Opinions are like a**holes, everyone has got one.  As someone who has the Sabrina X's, I highly recommend them.  Although I have a small music room, 11x11x11, they are perfect for me, and I have them about 2 ft from the rear wall.  They are driven by a Pass Labs 250.8.  Don't worry about placement . .  although it's always good to have a Wilson dealer set them up, you can easily get them in close to if not the perfect place.  They go plenty loud (more than I will ever need).  Since they would be set up for your listening area, 10 ft is great, toe'd in slightly.  Plus they have all of the latest Wilson tech, like the tweeter from the super high end model, and the entire cabinet is X material.  

If you can't get more than a foot or so from the wall, you won't make Sophias (Ive had Sophia 2's for ~12 years) sound their best, and I doubt the Sabrina X would "thrive" without more air around it either.  You certainly can make the Sophias work, but you'll like need to significantly toe them in to create the best depth and imaging at the sofa location (mine are around 28" from the wall, and 10' from my ears.  Don't worry about the toe-in as far as filling the room and kitchen with sound, it affects imaging which is lost as you wander around anyway. I've not heard the Sabrina X's, so I can't say for sure, but @moto_man sounds about right on spacing.

The Wilsons definitely have a "house sound" you may or may not like, but if you do like the floor standers, the poster who recommended the Duette 2's is right on the mark as the 2's are designed specifically to be wall huggers, and are quite different from the original Duettes in that regard, so if you see some, do take a listen (horribly expensive new IMO, but...). 

While I am a Wilson fan, I've also never heard a Sonus Faber that I didn't like, though the sound is quite different. Can't go wrong there either - I wouldn't call them dark, but they are less forward than the Wilsons tend to be, and also they do have serious wife appeal factor.

Good hunting! 😀

Hi Everyone,

 

I wanted to start by thanking all of you for your thoughtful suggestions, help and kind words!!  Thank You!

 

Second: I bought a paid of speakers (YAY!!).  More on this in a minute.

 

Third: What happened.  Many of the suggestions were basically impossible to audition, unfortunately.  They just simply were available to audition, at home or otherwise.  I reached out to basically all the brands suggest and many were really helpful as they could have been, one of which offered that if I flew to the US to hear the speakers, and bought them, they would pay for my air fare: A really nice gesture.  The risk, however, was too great to take trips around the USA, flights, hotel, food, and so on, and I may still not love the speakers.  Not to mention the time needed away from the office...  I have to be practical and things that I can hear in my city are what ended up making the list.  So what made the list?

Sonus Faber Guarneri's
Wilson SabrinaX (and Sophia V1's)
Focal Sopra 2 & 3's
Paradigm Persona 7F
Klipsch K-Horns, Heresy & Cornwall's

Not the most comprehensive list, but it's what I could hear.  The closest Revel dealer is more than 6 hours by car away, so it also didn't make the cut.

Briefly  Horns (read, Klipsch) aren't for me.  That's not a knock on them, and I can certainly see why so many love them, but they just aren't my jam.  Again, no judgment, we all have personal taste, and variety is the spice of life, and others will not care for my taste.  And that's okay.  You do you, I'll do me :)

The Paradigms were really nice but have a "house sound" that is very similar to my Paradigms (recessed mids).  They are fantastic for classic rock.  Like, really, really good.  But I listen to more than that, and after having Paradigms for 20+ years, I want a change.  Been there, done that.

The Focal's.  I like the 2's more than the 3's.  Judge me for it.  I'm okay with that.  The 2's felt more "together" or, I guess the audiophile term is "cohesive".  They were easier to listen too, less "hifi" sounding and more just...  Good sounding.  I found the 2's less bright than than the 3's, but in the end, both were brighter than what I want.

Sonus Faber Guarneri.  Wow.  These are EASLITY the most beautiful speaker I have ever seen.  They had the Serafino's as well which are also stunning, but the Guarneri are just...  Something else.  I was heavily biased towards these from the get go.  Heck, I want a pair to have in my home, I don't care if they are even hooked up!  The sound...  They are the best speaker I've ever experienced (and this experience is limited) with vocals.  Especially female vocals. If I listened to that only, this would be the speaker.  People talk about sound having flash and bone.  I get what they mean now.  If you've never heard these, you owe it to yourself to hear them.  The are so unreal, they are human sounding.

Wilson Sophia V1's...  These made me well up.  There was an immediate emotional connection for me.  20 years ago I was sitting with a dealer and I asked what made a good speaker good.  His answer stuck with me forever: If the hairs on the back of your neck are standing on end, it's a good speaker.  My hairs we on were on full salute.  These are very special speakers to me.  But, and there are a few buts, they are old and the tweeters did have some deration on the surrounds.  I was concerned about longevity as the Wilson dealer warned they are likely near impossible to replace.  Apparently Wilson does not have back stock of them.  Second, and this was the nail in the coffin, they have a sharp leading edge.  They sounded good, amazing in fact, for a bit, but they the end and I didn't want to keep going.  Perhaps with tubes and tweaking it can be tamed, but I'm not going down that route.  For the money these go for...  What a steal.

Wilson SabrinaX's.  What can I say...  Take the emotion of the Sophia's, get rid of the leading edge, add in 95% of the vocal magic of the Guarneri's and put it in a small (albeit challenging to drive) cabinet and you have the SabrinaX's.  To me, it was the clear winner and there really was no second place.  These speakers have been getting very good reviews, and I get why.  I really do. Yes, the carpet in the front is terrible, the looks are polarizing, as is the brand, but to me, these are very, very special speakers that do very little wrong.  What is wrong?  Well, they don't image or do vocals as well as the Guarneri's (1 way vs 3 way, big cabinet vs small) they don't have the bass impact of the Sophia's (but a sub can be added if needed), they are demanding to drive (we all know about the wild impedance curve) and, so I hear, placement is a bugger.  But when amps well, and placed right, oh baby do these girls sing, and rock!  

 

So bought 'em.

 

Are they they best option for my room?  Almost certainly not.  They are pretty shallow so I should have about 22 inches from the wall to the back of the cabinet.  In the end, I made an emotional decision, taking into considered the best information I could get.  The speakers are made to spec (apparently) so after selecting the cabinet, grill and spike colours, they should be ready in about 10 weeks.

 

Now I have deal with an amp...  But that's for another thread.

 

Thank you all again for your help and I hope some of you aren't too upset with my decision.  Hopefully the speakers are Jekyll and Hyde in my room, but time will tell.  As long as the essence of what I heard (and it was with a Hegel H390 with a Zen streamer, off a Nucleus, Tidal + Roon) I'll be pretty happy.

 

Best,

-Paul

 

 

 

 

 

 

Congrats Paul!  Great choice and great writeup.  I hope the SabrinaX works well in your room and associated components let them sing.  Sometimes when you listen to a speaker or component in a dealer showroom and then get them in your home, you realize how much synergy matters.

I got myself a pair of Tunetots this week and they are stunners.  They are also the most sensitive to placement speakers I've owned and it wasn't until I added a subwoofer that they really bloomed. But once dialed in.. WOW.  As you found, Wilson's past reputation for sometimes being harsh does not apply to this current crop and there's no brightness or sharpness there.  Neutral, detailed, meaty, dynamic.  A real pleasure to listen to.

I've always pined for a pair of Guarneris.  SF was my first love.  I've owned Cremona Auditors and Ms, but the Guarneri Mementos are still the most gorgeous stand mount speakers in history to me and by all accounts their sound matches their looks.

Looking forward to your "Amplifier Recommendation Help Please" thread.  😄

Op - your dilemma was mine also.  I have had two brand new modern houses in the last three years.  Both houses were a combination Kitchen / Great Room.  My wife could not understand why I could not just get in-wall speakers.  I also had to place the speakers against the wall.  My room size was 25'W x 45'L with 20-foot ceilings. 

I started with Wilson Duette 2's and I have to say they were wonderful and they are noted for being able to play against the wall.  But I got the itch so I purchased Sonus Faber Amati Tradition Homage speakers.  They also maybe were 6" from the back wall.  When I moved into my new house I went to Viking Acoustic Grande Voix dual horn speakers and they were the best of the three that I have owned recently.  And, my wife loves the look which is a major selling point. LOL!!!!

Sometimes, I think people make too big a deal about having speakers so close to the back wall.  Currently, my Grande Voix's are 13" from the back wall.  I simply placed a bass trap right behind the speaker and there is no bass smearing and the music is outstanding.  I also have a corner bass trap.

I think any of the speakers you have selected for the demo will work and I have heard them all.  When I went to SF, I direct compared to Wilson.  The SF won out in sound in a side-by-side comparison.  

Good Luck in your journey and you are right by selecting the speakers first.  It is easy to match amps to a particular speaker.  It is not easy to match a speaker to a particular amp.  

 

 

 

 

 

Why can't I stop thinking how good Piega's Coax 511's would look in the space you have available?

The more I listen to my friends Lii Audio Crystal 10 Reference Single Driver Loudspeakers the more I love them. These could be my End-Game speakers. 

Lii Audio has come out with a new model now called Silver-10 Reference that uses speaker cabinets made out of Marine Wood that sounds even better. The older Crystal-10 Reference model used common plywood for their speaker cabinets.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVez8PTTeAI&t

As a Wilson Sabrina X owner, first I congratulate you on your choice.  Second, I have to respectfully disagree with those who say that the Sabrina X's are bright speakers or that they are "hard to drive."  That has definitely not been my experience.  I find them to be wonderfully voiced and definitely not bright or fatiguing at all.  I also have no desire for more bass, although they are near corners so maybe that brings out more bass.  As for being hard to drive, I use a Pass Labs 250.8, which into 4 ohms is obviously a bruiser anyway, but is a fantastic match.  On the other hand, I can easily drive them with my PrimaLuna Dialogue Premier HP tube amp as well, so I think that those who believe that they are hard to drive are just relying on the impedance curve from Stereophile rather than actually trying them in the real world.  Congratulations on your purchase.  Oh, and just a word about placement.  The same Stereophile review states that a Wilson dealer moved the speakers .25 inches and got more noticeably more bass and focus.  I call total BS on that.  Unless the reviewer's head was in a vice, in the real world, we sit in our listening chair, move around, bend our heads to read, sit slightly differently in the chair, etc., all of which move your head more than .25 inches to one side or the other or forward or back.  So the idea that changing the placement of the speakers by 1/4 inch does anything significant in the real world is just illogical, unless, as I said, you like to sit and listen to music with your head in a vice so that you can't move.  Enjoy them.  they are beautifully made, look great (IMHO) and sound great!

@bigfatpaulie

First of all…Congrats on your choice! Great speakers!!!

My suggestion would be to have your dealer set them up for you since you bought them new, assuming you bought them from the dealer.
I’m still experimenting with the speaker placement in my room (15x14) and I can tell you the Sabrinas can sound like several completely different speakers depending on how you position them and how they interact with your room depending on how far from the front wall and side walls they are, toe in, etc.

So having a trained dealer perform the set up for you is essential. Take advantage of if it if there’ an option.

Secondly…I drive my Sabrinas with Pass Labs XA30.8 and I can’t detect any signs of amplifier straining. I hear synergy between the Pass amp and the speakers. They sound amazing.

Let is know your thoughts once you’re up and running.

Paul - congrats on your choice of Wilson SabrinaX.  Regarding placement, your dealer will set them up (otherwise you will not get warranty).  You may find that they don't need that much space away from the wall behind them. That was a major concern of mine, but my dealer thinks (my order hasn't shipped yet) they will not have to be "out into the room".  Regarding electronics, you can use a wide variety of gear --- from integrateds like the Hegel, to more expensive separates.   I'm using a Boulder 866.