I bought a used pair of Silverline Audio's Conductor cables. Plugged them in and was very pleased with the neutral sound I was getting. Bare wire to the speakers, and bananas on the amp end. Then I realized that the arrows on the cables where pointing towards the amp. OOPS, I reversed the path direction, and couldn't hear any difference. Zero. My preference would be to have the bananas on the amp end.
Can I disobey the arrows, and run the cables effectively backwards?
While Ralph Morrison is not the last word on electromagnetism, I am not questioning his expertise, because I did read your links (and have one of his books), and there is nothing in them that disagrees with what I wrote Jea48. I am not questioning Ralph Morrison's understanding, I am questioning yours.
Why would I read the other thread you linked to. With the exception of almarg who always writes clearly, it is mainly a miss-mash of misconceptions and partial truths and I have better things that go through it in detail.
How much energy is outside the conductor and how much inside the
conductor? If it 80% - 20%? Maybe 50% - 50%? 95% - 5%? If most of the
“energy” travels outside the conductor please explain all the heartburn
over skin effect, for which very high frequencies travel closer to the
surface and lower frequencies travel deeper inside the conductor. Also,
frequencies of what? Thanks in advance.
Almost all the energy is outside the conductor. The product of the electric field and magnetic field inside the conductor is near 0, assuming a good conductor. The E-field penetrates the conductor causing charge to move inducing the magnetic field, and with high frequency, that e-field does not penetrate much into the conductor, but in either case, almost all the energy is outside the conductor.
So, you believe the “audio signal” travels inside the conductor, right? Regardless of whether the skin effect applies or not. I’ll ask again, the frequency of what?
Wireless is both ways my tablet sends and receives the "signal energy" is traveling back and forth just like ethernet and AC in wires.
No, the discussion would be the signal energy is not traveling back and forth from the transmitter to the receiver but rather the signal energy travels in one direction from the transmitter to the receiver.
How much energy is outside the conductor and how much inside the conductor? If it 80% - 20%? Maybe 50% - 50%? 95% - 5%? If most of the “energy” travels outside the conductor please explain all the heartburn over skin effect, for which very high frequencies travel closer to the surface and lower frequencies travel deeper inside the conductor. Also, frequencies of what? Thanks in advance.
And if you are late on a customer deliverable, they will travel anywhere but where you want them to be.
In digital circuits the signal and energy travel in the spaces between the traces or between the traces and the conducting surfaces.
... but I digress. The energy travels primarily outside the conductors as that is where the fields are, but the fields are a function of the properties of the conductors and the dielectric.
Don't ask me, I can't even get it out of the roll without putting a ton or kinks in it ;-)
Oh crap my home depot wire is not marked with the direction I should
install them. Does anyone know which direction will work best? I'm
freaking out here.
I woke up long time ago, rode a bicycle for about 12 miles, talked to many people, had a few pictures taken, checked audiogon threads, sang Francesca with Fabrizio de Andre (on the radio), made a few decisions, and a few more things. No pills, though. You want update around lunch time?
I have some odd feeling that I am not the only one missing points of your posts.
It is cute watching you flapping around pretending that you are ahead of the game. In this case, you simply cannot be. It would reverse all the theories of time, space, and pretty much everything else. Quantum physics and wire directionality would be turned upside down. Or back and forth.
Be careful with electrical statements, too. These guys seem to have read another book since 1950s. Maybe there was something new in 1970s. Keep it up.
Oh crap my home depot wire is not marked with the direction I should install them. Does anyone know which direction will work best? I'm freaking out here.
^ Not only that, when I had one cable connected against the arrow and one connected with the arrow things got out of control. Started hearing secret messages in music that was recorded with the same mixed arrow directionality.
Total and complete BS. If you hear a difference it is all in your mind. Music is an AC signal. Electrons go back and forth. Show me a difference in impedance one way or the other. You can't even with the most sensitive instruments. Back in the 80s MIT and I think they were the first to start making directional interconnect cables, were supposed to be the best and they were really big and fat and had the nicest RCAs on them. So, I bought several pairs and dutifully oriented the arrows in the right direction. A computer nerd/ audiophile buddy of mine laughed. So I got blinded and he started swapping the preamp to amp cables back and forth haphazardly. In a notebook on each page I wrote a B for better and a W for worse. There was no correlation what so ever and I was really stretching to make out a difference anyway, never really sure. Yes, pulling wire changes the metal lattice structure and electrons could care less. So, as far as I am concerned it is a marketing scam. I would also bet that the manufacturer has no idea which way the wire is going. They just print arrows on the insulation to keep up with the Jones. If you go out and buy the absolute best bulk wire like a Canare product there is never little arrows on it. The problem for audiophiles is that most of us do not have an extended scientific background and usually do not hang out with those that do. It is not that we are dumb, we just don't speak that language. So, we hear something that seems to make sense, and usually there is a small element of truth in there, and buy it hook line and sinker. Then, 1/2 of us really do think we hear a difference and the myth gets wings. Many times when I really thought I could hear a difference I was just fooling myself. Blinded there was none. The mythologists may laugh at me which is fine. They are the ones who are the suckers.
wolf_garcia My simple point that Kaitty can’t understand is that the component wires and traces will NEVER be checked for "directionality" because in that context it simply doesn’t matter...at all...dude!
>>>>That’s about the twentieth time you said that. It’s still not true. I’m only referring to drawn wire when I say all wire is directional. Are traces directional? Are connectors directional? You decide. Besides the high end industry never got the memo on directionality so of course they won’t check for it. Duh!
The greatest mystery surrounding wire directionality has not been discussed on this forum.
It is why all the posts made by the many of us who prefer our speaker cables inserted with the arrows pointing towards the amplifiers and our fuses inserted in the opposite direction of most have had our posts deleted? Which of you are reporting us to the mods? Is it too much to bare that we like our cables installed in the reverse direction?
bob540117 Oh my! This question really gave me a start . . directional speaker cables?! I didn’t check for arrows — did I do this WRONG! Odds are good . . . Yes! I messed up, again!
Then I remembered that my cables are for bi-wiring and there is only one way to connect them. That was a close one!
>>>>Not so fast, Bob. All cables - including ones with dissimilar connectors like power cords, HDMI cables and bi-wiring cables - should be controlled for directionality during the manufacturing process, like Audioquest does, for example. Thus, when the dissimilar connectors are attached, the cable will be in the correct orientation directionality wise. It’s not rocket science. 🚀
Glubson, Everyone and his brother knew there were reporting issues in April, way before the 22nd, especially from nursing homes. I pointed that out when the US reported 7,000 deaths on one day we’ll before the 22nd. By the way, that number 7,000 disappeared from chart the very next day. Furthermore, I suspect in your haste for recognition of something everyone already knew you missed the point of my post yesterday.
I just love Audiogon. In my emails there is occasionally a thread I can’t resist. This one is a perfect example and it amazes me that someone would ask this and then others might entertain it as a serious topic. It’s kind of like driving down the road and seeing one of those little cars covered in SJW stickers. I always want to pull up next to them and see if they have three eyes or something.
My simple point that Kaitty can’t understand is that the component wires and traces will NEVER be checked for "directionality" because in that context it simply doesn’t matter...at all...dude!
The signal energy travels down the cables in one direction >>>> from the source to the load, (amp to speakers), in the form of an electromagnetic wave.
@jea48 dude, you really might want to take a remedial physics class. I will ask again: please explain to me exactly how to make a passive conductive cable with unequal impedance.
Oh my! This question really gave me a start . . directional speaker cables?! I didn’t check for arrows — did I do this WRONG! Odds are good . . . Yes! I messed up, again!
Then I remembered that my cables are for bi-wiring and there is only one way to connect them. That was a close one!
I, in fact, noticed and explained those teeth on April 22. I told you that you will get it a few weeks later.
Anyway, so you have something to reveal to your readership in a month or so. The secret in those teeth amplitudes increasing recently is in reporting logistics and death distribution. New York State has a very well organized system, augmented during recent circumstances. Many other states do not have it organized that well in real time so you get dips during the weekend. When proportion of deaths in New York was overwhelming, delays in reporting from other states were much less prominent. Once proportion of New York state deaths decreased, imperfections in reporting dilligence in other states became more visible.
If it sounds better it matters. I have arrows on my cables. I run them source(pre) to input (amp). also dac (source) to pre (input). I haven’t tried them in reverse because they sound so sweet.
Mr. Geoffkait, I don't think it best to quote HowItWorks articles that poorly quote Wikipedia. The result can be less than coherent. Take this sentence,
The voice coil's electromagnet is placed within a permanent magnetic
field. The two magnets interact, and every time the electromagnet's
polarity changes, the interaction between the magnets changes.
The voice-coil is the electromagnetic, and the voice-coil's magnetic field interacts with the permanent magnet field. Perhaps that is what they meant, but you get the impression they didn't really understand it.
The signal energy travels down the cables in one direction
>>>> from the source to the load, (amp to speakers), in the
form of an electromagnetic wave.
That is not really true and is shown not to be true with a simple case, a DC voltage and a load. There is no continuous electromagnetic wave to transfer energy. What there is is an electromagnetic field that cause electron movement with causes a magnetic field. The product of those two (power) always points to the load which is the direction of power transfer.
In a transmission line, the changing e-field causes electrons to move which propagates down the cable as an electromagnetic wave, but technically, other than losses, no work is done. The "wave" sets up the fields, but does not define the transfer of energy ... at least using classical EM theory.
The reason for the weird cyclic “dragon’s teeth” curves of the daily deaths and to lesser extent the daily cases curves is that reporting is not consistent over the course of the week, all weeks.
That’s the reason there is an approximately seven-day cycle to the dragon’s teeth.
On Sunday or Monday the curves hit a minimum and hit a maximum later in the week.
OMG Have I created a Frankenstein monster? Have I been cloned? It’s like looking in the mirror. 👀
I don’t think you understand how electricity works. No offense. I don’t think the other gentlemen do either. It is the current that moves the speaker diaphragm as explained below.
“The voice coil component of a speaker is actually just an electromagnet. Electromagnets are coils of wire, and they're normally wrapped around some kind of magnetic metal, like iron. By running an electrical current through the wire, you produce a magnetic field surrounding the coil; this field magnetizes the metal in the middle creating north and south polar orientations. The difference between an electromagnet and a permanent magnet is that you can switch the polar orientations on an electromagnet by reversing the current's flow.
Stereos use this property of electromagnets to repeatedly reverse the electrical flow. The amplifier switches the signal over and over, making the red output wire on the stereo switch between positive and negative charges. The voice coil's electromagnet is placed within a permanent magnetic field. The two magnets interact, and every time the electromagnet's polarity changes, the interaction between the magnets changes. When the magnets are repeatedly repelled and attracted, they move the coil back and forth quickly, kind of like the piston in an engine. The moving coil presses and pulls on the speaker cone and vibrates the air in front of the speaker. This creates sound waves via a driver that vibrates the diaphragm.”
That doesn’t make sense because there are two wires in the AC circuit, not just one. The signal must be traveling down one wire to the speaker while it travels in the opposite direction on the other wire. And vice versa. The signal can’t be traveling opposite to the direction of current and voltage in a wire, can it? That’s why both wires in the cable should be controlled for directionality, such that when the signal is headed to the speaker it’s going in the direction of least resistance.
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