Speaker cable arrows???

What do you mean gonna be, you sick little monkey?

I welcome all stalkers. I have an open door policy for the closed minded. 🙄

Encoded message for Mr. High End Audio Smarty Pants,

https://youtu.be/SXk7TuxrDBI

Cables, inductors, capacitors, resistors, power cords, transformers, fuses. They’re all conductors. And all wire is inherently better-sounding in one direction vs the other. It’s not really brain 🧠 surgery.

andy2
And to make things even more complicated, an AC current is not AC that is it is not symmetric. Some of its aspect is sort of like a DC current.

>>>>That is interesting. How does it affect directionality, or does it?

andy2
To make things a bit more complicated, a speaker cable exists in a three dimensional space, therefore the electro-magnetic energy not necessarily confined as in a 2 dimensional circuit diagram for example.

>>>>>I’m pretty sure that has been covered already. Ad nauseam, actually. We have Poynting vectors up the wazoo.

The trouble with the theory that the writing goes is the correct direction is that the manufacturer of cables that don’t have arrows probably don’t believe in directionality OR don’t know about it. Otherwise, they would be 100% sure to put arrows on the cables since, you know, cables in the correct direction sound better. Obviously, on some cables where shields are present the arrows usually simply indicate which direction the shielded cable should go. However the shield is a separate issue so the best case scenario is the manufacturer is cognizant of both types of directionality whilst constructing the cables.

Has there been a troll incursion? Quick, man battles stations! 🚨🚨🚨

Are you from Mars, dude? 👽

Whoa! That’s heavy, dude! I’m going to think about that all day! 

Another stalker! Begone, dog!

The cross thread stalking in progress sign just came on. Perhaps a cross dresser? 💃

I’m from up there. 🔝

All the lonely trolls, where do they all come from?

Looks like this one’s officially bottomed out. 🍑 3-2. Trolls win again!

Almarg and atmosphere get credit for their initially interesting but ultimately kind of lame and easily disproven theory that fuse “directionality“ is produced by the irregularity of the fuse holder, not by the fuse wire per se.

glupson4,808 posts05-13-2020 1:37pm

"In the case the solid wire conductor being pulled through a die the deformation is primarily in 2 dimensions. Hence the directionality."

Primarily maybe, only not. Which makes the explanation not quite strong. Sometimes, your posts are written so authoritatively that I have to look for the word that explains them differently.

>>>>That’s because you’re a mental defective. 😳

Just happy if it keeps you on your toes. Good luck to you. 🤗

heaudio
Uhmmmm, most copper wires for flexible cable is annealed, which does cause recrystalization and improves conductivity, but importantly also makes it softer and more workable (and less likely to break). Some copper wire is intentionally not annealed to make it more difficult to hold a bend and increase tensile strength. Really, this is not a debatable item. It is done day in and day out and is well understood.

>>>>Look 👀 You don’t have to be a genius to figure out that stretching metal or hammering it further deforms what is originally a symmetrical crystal structure. You do know metals are crystals, right? In the case the solid wire conductor being pulled through a die the deformation is primarily in 2 dimensions. Hence the directionality. 🔛 Follow? Sometimes when your posts are written so authoritatively I almost believe you really are an authority. 🤗

You better look 👀 around for a better explanation, dude. Even a ball peen hammer can’t reform the crystals. All the King’s horses and all the King’s men couldn’t put Humpty Dumpty together again. 😳

Apparently all you have to do is mention wire polishing and suddenly all the helmet polishers come out of the woodwork.

djones51
After they pull wire it goes through annealing and recrystalization occurs. Controlled for direction is market speak. The current doesn’t care a whit which way the wire is oriented.

>>>>>Speaking of pulling where did you pull that out of?

OK, so pulling the wire through the final die deforms the symmetrical metal crystals of the wire especially on the surface but also below the surface, probably all the way to the center of the wire. Then the metals crystals look like the quills on a porcupine’s back. So which way is easier to stroke the quills, against the grain or with the grain? It’s the same idea with the signal traveling down the wire, it wants to travel with the grain. When the signal travels against the grain it gets distorted. That’s why AudioQuest controls their cables for wire directionality AND polishes the surface of the conductors. Better safe than sorry! 😐

heaudio123
Me thinks Nordost marketing people come to audio forums for inspiration ;-)

>>>>>>Actually, Nordost is like you. They are agnostic when it comes to directionality. They must have the same “gut feeling“ you do. 😬

br3098
I’m not trying to convince you and I know I shouldn’t have responded to your or anyone’s post about this. If you hear a difference I’m happy for you. I mean that seriously. I don’t, and the math doesn’t support the outcome you propose. But that doesn’t affect your listening pleasure.

>>>>What a nice guy! If you don’t hear it that’s the way it goes sometime. But it’s you and about five other dudes who don’t against 50,000 who do. Guess who wins? 🤗

So, you appear to take the position that you yourself don’t have to wait for test results for directionality. Controlled blind test or whatever, that it’s a foregone conclusion that directionality is not audible. That sounds about right. Your main arguments seem to be it’s your gut feeling and anyone who hears it must be crazy. You don’t even have to do any tests, tests are for the other guys, the naive schmucks. Not very scientific, but what the heck! 🤗 Nice manifesto!

You now seem to suggest the signal comprises audio frequencies, I.e, the audio waveform. Is that what you’re saying? I don’t wish to put words in your mouth.

The Non symmetrical crystal structure I’m referring to Is the deformation to the natural copper or silver crystal structure that occurs when the wire is drawn through a die, especially to the surface but also below the surface of the wire.

“I am not going to be able to tell the difference between a 1lb and a 1.001lb weight in my hand, though it can be easily measured.”

>>>>>>> I’m pretty sure that argument is a logical fallacy.

Thanks for the input needlenose. 🤥

I don’t wish to put words in anyone’s mouth but nobody said the electromagnetic signal travels outside the conductor. What heaudio123 has been saying is the *energy* travels mostly outside the conductor - I.e., the magnetic and electric fields, which are not the signal itself. So far we haven’t nailed down what the signal actually is, a current, a charge, a voltage, an electromagnetic wave, a frequency, etc.

You said at high frequencies. Frequencies of what?

You also said audio transmission. What audio transmission are you referring to? The audio waveform? Current, voltage, Poynting vectors? Something else?

You also said the conductor material (and purity, I assume) makes a difference in the signal transmission. Why wouldn’t the non-symmetrical crystal structure of drawn wire also make a difference in the signal transmission? Especially if the non symmetry was visible on the surface of the wire. Yes? No?

Again, frequency of what? For that matter the energy of what, the “signal.” But what is the signal? Pardon the question. The audio waveform is not traveling down the wire or cable. If not the audio waveform, what else has frequency? Not current, not voltage, not the magnetic field, not the electric field. The alternating frequency? Also, the way I always see the skin effect stated, the “high frequencies” travel nearer to the surface - but not outside the conductor - whereas lower frequencies travel closer to the center of the conductor. Is that completely wrong?

So, you believe the “audio signal” travels inside the conductor, right? Regardless of whether the skin effect applies or not. I’ll ask again, the frequency of what?

Jea48, that was then, this is now. Can you answer my questions directly now? 

How much energy is outside the conductor and how much inside the conductor? If it 80% - 20%? Maybe 50% - 50%? 95% - 5%? If most of the “energy” travels outside the conductor please explain all the heartburn over skin effect, for which very high frequencies travel closer to the surface and lower frequencies travel deeper inside the conductor. Also, frequencies of what? Thanks in advance.

And thank you for the meltdown, too, glubson. I suspect you just woke up and haven’t had your smart pill yet. Hope you feel better. 

Mysigyn, thanks for the meltdown. 

wolf_garcia
My simple point that Kaitty can’t understand is that the component wires and traces will NEVER be checked for "directionality" because in that context it simply doesn’t matter...at all...dude!

>>>>That’s about the twentieth time you said that. It’s still not true. I’m only referring to drawn wire when I say all wire is directional. Are traces directional? Are connectors directional? You decide. Besides the high end industry never got the memo on directionality so of course they won’t check for it. Duh!

bob540117
Oh my! This question really gave me a start . . directional speaker cables?! I didn’t check for arrows — did I do this WRONG! Odds are good . . . Yes! I messed up, again!

Then I remembered that my cables are for bi-wiring and there is only one way to connect them. That was a close one!

>>>>Not so fast, Bob. All cables - including ones with dissimilar connectors like power cords, HDMI cables and bi-wiring cables - should be controlled for directionality during the manufacturing process, like Audioquest does, for example. Thus, when the dissimilar connectors are attached, the cable will be in the correct orientation directionality wise. It’s not rocket science. 🚀 

Glubson, Everyone and his brother knew there were reporting issues in April, way before the 22nd, especially from nursing homes. I pointed that out when the US reported 7,000 deaths on one day we’ll before the 22nd. By the way, that number 7,000 disappeared from chart the very next day. Furthermore, I suspect in your haste for recognition of something everyone already knew you missed the point of my post yesterday.

It is the current in the coil that produces the magnetic field.  Also, recall thread concerns directionality.

Glubson, did you take a smart pill placebo? 

I don’t think you understand how electricity works. No offense. I don’t think the other gentlemen do either. It is the current that moves the speaker diaphragm as explained below.

“The voice coil component of a speaker is actually just an electromagnet. Electromagnets are coils of wire, and they're normally wrapped around some kind of magnetic metal, like iron. By running an electrical current through the wire, you produce a magnetic field surrounding the coil; this field magnetizes the metal in the middle creating north and south polar orientations. The difference between an electromagnet and a permanent magnet is that you can switch the polar orientations on an electromagnet by reversing the current's flow.

Stereos use this property of electromagnets to repeatedly reverse the electrical flow. The amplifier switches the signal over and over, making the red output wire on the stereo switch between positive and negative charges. The voice coil's electromagnet is placed within a permanent magnetic field. The two magnets interact, and every time the electromagnet's polarity changes, the interaction between the magnets changes. When the magnets are repeatedly repelled and attracted, they move the coil back and forth quickly, kind of like the piston in an engine. The moving coil presses and pulls on the speaker cone and vibrates the air in front of the speaker. This creates sound waves via a driver that vibrates the diaphragm.”

That doesn’t make sense because there are two wires in the AC circuit, not just one. The signal must be traveling down one wire to the speaker while it travels in the opposite direction on the other wire. And vice versa. The signal can’t be traveling opposite to the direction of current and voltage in a wire, can it? That’s why both wires in the cable should be controlled for directionality, such that when the signal is headed to the speaker it’s going in the direction of least resistance.

I assume Ted Bundy.

High comedy! 🤗

Since all wire is inherently directional 🔜 speaker cables, internal speaker and electronics wires, inductors, transformers, digital cables, HDMI cables, fuses, ribbon connectors, capacitors, resistors, et al should be controlled for their inherent directionality during manufacture. The industry, sadly, moves at a snails’s pace. It probably hasn’t even got the memo yet. 🐌 If everything was in the right direction the audible effect of reversing one cable wouldn’t be subtle then, would it?