According to the price lists they are in one category, but anyone could comment on quality/performance? At the moment i use big Teak Wood plinth (just $750) custom made in Taiwan for my SP10mk2. Looking for upgrade in the future. I use my sp10mk2 with Reed "12 tonearm now. Doest the plinth actually makes a big difference in sound? My stand is well damped with glass, metal and sarbothane in between.
2) Steve Dobbins famous custom plinth cost $2650 including three Stillpoints feet and automotive show quality paint in black or white. Design has changed many times, still hard to find any current plinth picture online.
I know there are Albert Porter's and Artisan Fidelity quality plinth available, but i don't like the design (i mean just how it looks) for SP10.
What about the size Tenuto? Micro Seiki fits in (for Technics SP10mkII platter) like it was made for it, not like other mats which can be smaller or bigger in diameter. Micro Seiki is the best for Technics owners. The CU-500 is much thicker than CU-180
@downunder I used a common copper cleaning product and an old toothbrush because the mat is not exactly smooth but has micro grooves like vinyls I insisted a lot and performed more passes but in the end the result was excellent.
After polishing, with a spray I gave a couple of light shredded transparent varnish.
For me the Tenuto mat is a good product, well done, with a weight very similar to the MS CU 180 and reasonable cost.
I was thinking in the future to buy one for other SP 10s I own.
I am sure that there will certainly be greater wear on the thrust pad, adding weight not calculated in the design phase by the engineers who developed the SP 10. Fortunately, it is available as a compatible replacement part
chakster, do you, or others here, have any experience with the AT-666 mat? Â It was designed to add vacuum hold down but I recall reading of some using it just as a replacement mat. Â Raul in fact recommended it with the Technics SP series as a mat only. Â It weighs 1.4 kg. Â Also may be easier to find than the CU mats and for much less money.
With some of these heavier mats I'd be concerned not only with start-up torque but possible excessive bearing wear.
I would keep in mind that the "CU" mats made by M-S are expensive not merely because of their association with M-S but also because they are made of copper, which is very expensive these days. I recently had a copper platter sheet made for my Kenwood L07D by a very good machinist who is very reasonable in his charges; it ended up costing $700, more than $200 of which was the cost of the copper sheet that he started with. Well worth the expense; it replaces the stainless steel platter sheet that is standard on the L07D and seems to do a much better job of blocking EMI, even though SS is supposed to be a pretty good shielding material. I too also use an SAEC SS300, which I bought from Raul years ago. It's on my TT101 at the moment. I am not sure what it is made of and would be curious to know, but it's not pure copper.
Wow your CU 180 is really like new, the asking price has been adjusted!!!
My instead was so opaque and full of stains before
but after so much cleaning I brought it back as if it were new. after
SH10B3 base and tonearm panels have been developed originally to create the correct synergy with EPA 100 arm and SP 10 II; if you want to apply other arms you will need to work on the height of the tonearm panel to adapt everything.
My friend decided to make a custom armboard for his Obsidian Plinth. The reason is that the original armboard position is still too high for Victor UA-7045 tonearm to make the arwand parallel to the record surface. I don't know why Technics made it like that (it's very bad). The Drive is lowered down in the Obsidian Plinth and tonearm must be lowered down too, but it's not. For example the Victor US-7045 must be lowered down in the armboard for 7-12mm. Victor has VTA on the fly, but even at the lowest position it is not low enough. Here is the Victor UA-7045 on temporary armboard that will be replaced with a custom made armboard soon. Â
You are lucky, because ugly looking and scratched CU-180 goes on ebay for much higher prices nowadays. I sold my spare last year for $750 to another audiogon member, but it was MINT- condition, this is the picrure. It’s nearly impossible to find Micro Seiki CU-180 "as new" without scratches and dirt on it.
I paid neraly $1k myself for my CU-500 in mint condition, it was more than 5 years ago and i’ve never seen another for sale! Even 5 years ago the CU-180 was about $500 minimum.
I am not interested in replicas as i am not sure the gunmental of the 70’s is the same as that copper of today. Anyway, i prefer the original products.
Surely there is a chance to buy some nice products cheaper once in a year or so, but i’m talking about the average price tags, vintage things like that only goes up in the price in time. It’s a good investment @best-groove
but the Micro CU-180 price tag is under $800 nowadays.
I saw the prices in vertiginous climb for the 180 year since a year ...are all crazy!!!!!
I can feel lucky that last year an audiophile friend sold me his unused CU 180 for € 300.
I think that in the current days there is nothing better wanting to buy a good mat at honest price look at the Tenuto of PureSound done gun metal at 370 euro new and sold by the same manufacturer on ebay.
thank you for information Audio Technica 616 feet, rare but with so much luck you could find. I will try to look for them.
The AT-616 is much bigger in diameter than the older AT-636. The 616 supports up to 60kg! But the smaller AT-636 support only 36kg max.Â
Actualy on those pictures you see the mega rare 2.7kg CU-500, not 1.8kg CU-180 mat.Â
SAEC SS-300 is the mat i use along with Micro CU-180 right now on my two Luxman PD-444 turntables. Saec weight is 870g, but CU-180 weight is 1.8kg. Actually even 1.8kg is too much for my Luxman, so the SAEC is better if the torque of the turntable is not so high as on the Technics DD.Â
Also the price for SAEC mats are much better/cheaper than for Micro Seiki mat. SAEC is a champ of the mats in my opinion, the typical price tag is under $400 (depends on condition), but the Micro CU-180 price tag is under $800 nowadays. The Micro has its luxury look (copper) and it must be scratch free and clean, the SAEC is just black. Â
I've seen a technical test of the most popular mats in the old Japanese magazine from the 80's. The SAEC is closer to the Micro CU-500 than to CU-180. I think all 3 mats are oustanding! Some of them just too heavy for certain turntables. Technics can hande all 3 mats with ease, even the superheavy CU-500!
Been working on the project for a friend who has purchased my Technis SP-10mkII with Micro Seiki CU-500 copper mat. He decided to go Obsidian way and i was looking for SH-10B3 plinth for him. Finally i got it and it looks better than i expected in my studio.
Not sure how we can find a dust cover, but he asked me to find one. Must be hard to find. The Obsidian base will be polished by a local guy next week. I think it will be even better than what we have now.
I’ve noticed that we have to make custom armboard, because the Victor UA-7045 tonearm must be mounted 7-12mm lower than the level of the stock armboard to make the arm wand parallel to the platter.
The stock footers will be removed and replaced by mi Audio-Technica AT-616 pneumatic insulators.
@nandric I was simply curious to understand why the Technics made this obsidian plinth (the photos are of my plinth) gray with veins rather than black like all those produced and seen in the world.
Is this a special series? I have never been able to discover anything about my strange plinth for this I ask in forums that I attend if anyone can know the story.
SH10-B3 - for SP10mkii & SP20 obsidian /wood base, 12kg
Guys, have any of you ever seen an original SH10B3 plinth different from the usual black color high gloss?
I own had this for quite some time, I am convinced that it is very very rare, the reason why Panasonic decided to apply a different color is completely unknown to me.
Try Jim Campbell (ebay jec965). He built my birch-ply and 3" slate plinths. A lot less expensive than OMA. Check them out in my systems. (No affiliation)
They are fragile/brittle and many have cracks/chips.
But what about sonic quality of the b3 and higher models ?
@nandric
So those ’’negative reviews ’’ are written because of those worthless
feet. I was lucky to find those AT 636 pneumatic footers but those
are not easy to get. However Raul owns the bigger kind and my
own the 636....
BTW your new metal racks are also part of your plinth. Deed
you use sand or lead plummet to fill in the tubes? I used the
so called ’’quartz sand’’ for my ’’Copulare’’ rack.
Yes, my racks designed to be filled with sand. My ex AT-636 went to Australia for another SL 1000 mk2 owner. But i have 8 x AT-616 pneumatic footers designed for much higher weight, this model is adjustable. Maybe i will put them under Luxmans to try. TT-101 also waiting for some sort of plinth. I agree that the plinth should not cost more than a turntable (at least for me).Â
Chakster, We don't "need" anything, but it is in the nature of audiophiles to believe that we can improve upon what the factory (any factory) made for us by spending money on a fancy substitute or building our own. This is not always borne out in actual practice, of course, but we audiophiles have the additional privilege of relying upon only our own opinion to determine success or failure.Â
Also, for every SP10 Mk2 or Mk3, there is not necessarily a factory-made obsidian plinth to be found at a reasonable price, if there is one to be found at all. So there is no shortage of aftermarket entrepreneurs to satisfy the need thus generated. I, for one, am very happy with the 80-lb slate and wood plinth I had made for my Mk3, and I spent less than $700 to get there. In my dreams, I would have wanted to remove the Mk3 motor assembly from its chassis and mounted that into the slate directly. But it's too late for that now.
Chakster, I own Technics SL 1000,mk 2 with Obsidan plinth
but removed the mediocre original feet and put AT pneumatic
 636 footers instead. The plinth is actually a frame (not guitar
box) like Lew's slate plints. The armbase is according to me
also suitable for 12'' tonearms. I use (10'') FR-64 s and there
is sufficient room on the armbase for an larger arm. Waht kind of
 ''Obsidian plinth'' are you referring to?
SH-10b3 - this is what you got? I'm talking about Sh-10b3 as the most common obsidian, i know there are few more variations, but they are very rare. Even the SH-10b3 is about $800+Â
Technics did something wrong with that SH-10b3 if it's not the best match sonically with their SP-10mk2 turntable? Why do we need heavier and bigger custom plywood plinth, is that an upgrade over the stock SH-10B3? Â
chakster, if you are curious, Technics offered at least three plinths for their SP-10 series of motor units. Â
The first, for their initial SP-10 was a basic box frame. Â With the introduction of their SP-10 Mk 2 came the SH-10B5, a 38.2 pound composite obsidian plinth. Â The SH-10B7 was similar but weighed nearly 42 pounds. Â I thought there was another option but can no longer find reference to it on the Vintage Technics site.
Your teak plinth certainly looks nice, whether optimal for sonics or not.
@nandric my plinth is actually a frame too, but it looks more massive than Technics obsidian plinth (more room to mount "12 tonearms). I can't remember how many variations of obsidian plinth they made, never tried them, but i have those Audio-Technica 636 pneumatic feet.
Anyway, the idea is to use metal frame like this EMTÂ , why not?Â
the EMT metal rack looks awesome. Â please post pics
I am using with my SP10 mk3 / Technics plinth with your MS cu-180 platter mat with Stillpoint V's threaded into the feet positions, on top of a granite platform isolated by compression springs.
Next week i will get my rack for Luxman PD-444 powder coated, it's my own design, super heavy, can't wait to try it.
I have few more Technics SP-20 tutnables and looking at EMT metal rack here i wonder why not use similar custom made racks for my SP-20 or SP-10mk2 instead of traditional plinth? It's some sort of the "nude" style prefered by some a'gon members. But wooden pannel can be installed on top for the deck and for the tonearm. I think this industrial rack looks cool. Â
Some more info about EMT 930 / 927 seismic base is here. Â Â
I've received my "Obsidian Inspired" plinth. I had Acoustand install "type 1 black delrin height adjustable feet" from Ebay UK seller "kridon-image". The plinth has the simple look I was after. The black delrin feet blend nicely. Both plinth and feet are very well-crafted. The black painted wood requires care to prevent scratches. The plinth is lighter than I expected, but will sit on a very heavy Myrtlewood platform. My SP10 is on its way to Applied Fidelity for updraded sapphire bearing installation, with servicing and Krebs upgrade just added by Bill Thallman.I may have the table back for Christmas and will report on how it sounds once it is put back together.
Yes, Chakster, I'm getting the "Obsidian Inspired" plinth in satin black/medium oak veneer. I customized with adjustable black Delrin feet (from a UK mfr near Acoustand) that raise the plinth about 2cm higher than the sorbothane feet pictured on the Acoustand website. I'm trading off a bit of the sleek, "low rider" look with the stock feet for ease of leveling. Just had the SP10 painted in black automotive paint. We'll see if it all comes together well! Bill Thalmann is also adding the Krebs Upgrade and installing a new bearing thrust pad. Experts like Bill may not be doing comprehensive SP10 work in the coming years, so I opted to address electronics and motor/bearing in a single shop visit. My PSU is a Dave Cawley "Timestep", so I'm set there.
"09-20-15: Chakster Steve, what about version for "12 inch tonearms? "
For 11" and 12" tonearms, I would need to draw new plans to incorporate longer tonearms into this plan. As it is, I drew my plan specifically for the tonearm I had planned to use in my instance, a Graham 2.2. And with no thought to producing any more.
I can say, after using this plinth for more than a year, I am happy with the end result. compared to a massive Baltic Birch constrained layer plinth, this 'light-rigid' plinth does indeed have a quicker sense of pace about it. Transients happen with a quickness not heard from the more massive base I had tried just previous. Plus, I have excellent bass performance in this setup that I would not have thought previously possible out of that tonearm and the two cartridges I've used on it. Very articulate and detailed...with great pace and slamminess. Better than I thought it would be.
My Acoustand SP10 MK2 plinth should be finished this week. My SP-10 is out to Bill Thalmann for routine tuneup, so I'll likely not hear it in the new plinth until November. I'll try to remember to post my impressions .
I have to link an old thread in my topic: http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1256765659&&&/Technics-SP-10-Tonearm-Pod-instead-of-Pl
All about plinth or no plinth (but pod) including comments from Jonathan Weiss (Oswalds Mill Audio) about his graphite slate plinth (best design imho). Nice reading.
Meanwile Technics "plinth" for their new turntable (coming out this winter) looks exactly like electric stove (lol), watch their presentation and sample unit without tonearm in these videos: http://youtu.be/gQoXsvRsLJA http://youtu.be/nOj9MTlLrG4
I had already tried a high mass approach with stacked layers of baltic birch multi-ply. Then the idea occurred to me that 'what if' one tried a lighter but rigid platform. Wouldn't spurious energy transfer into and around the lighter plinth somewhat quicker than with the previous massive plinth. That was part of the plan.
Also in use is a Minus-K BM1-150. I already had this one prior to the SP10 mkII project. I had ordered the heavy Minus-k model to accommodate some massive slate that was under a TD124.
I have a 160 lb aluminium plinth for my ptp4 lenco.The purpose is not to damp but evacuate the vibes through one big pointe.The two other feet are neutral .
Thanks Mosin, the one you have posted reminds me Monarch turntable (which is no other than SP10 motor). Unfortunately not for "12 arm. Anyway SP10 wihtout metal frame is much nices in any plinth and more flexible to tonearm mounting.
Monarch looks really nice on this picture: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ZNaWHl4mRFE/TtkNQILzxFI/AAAAAAAAD6s/4k1aZ5FkxN8/s1600/shapeimage_18.png
Kodo The Beat turntable in Steve Dobbins plinth also great: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/cd/28/30/cd28302908dfed6173dc3e5dd1c88853.jpg
I like the idea of two armboards on the back (Steve Dobbins style): http://www.xactaudio.com/kodo.php
David, you are right. It's a shame that i can't just go and check my SP10 in different plinths. I'm in another world. This Teak Wood plinth from Thai is virtually unknown, no feedbacks/reviews online, but the guy also made Garrard and Thorens plinth off the same Teak Wood. I don't like the Obsidian one as it's impossible to mount "12inch tonearm on it. My current arms are all "12 inch.
This is a picture of my SP10 in Teak Wood plinth with Thomas Schick tonearm (i'm currently selling):
Dear Chakster Are you in a rush to get a plinth? I am developing a very interesting plinth for my Sony TTS8000 - I am convinced that it will be transferable to the SP10. I don't want to give you too much detail save to say that it's not all about mass, nor all about damping, but getting a balance. thanks
I think all turntables benefit from isolation, I included it in my description only to give him fuller detail as to how I dealt with my plinth. When I heard the OMA plinth in their system before purchasing, they did not have it isolated in any way and it sounded terrific.
Of the three people using Minus K, none have parted with them and all have spoken as to enhanced detail, no negative attributes, but this is not a thread about Minus K.
I think a plinth which separates the motor/platter from the electronics should be ideal but cost more.
I did do away with the brake and the plastic housing, tightened the screws which hold the motor in place with a torque wrench to insure uniformityand the sound got better.
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