SP10mk2: OMA Graphite plinth vs.Dobbins plinth

In Europe, there is Vinylista from Berlin producing plinths for Technics SP10R, Garrards etc. 

I need a kryptonite plinth.

Fern & Roby also use cast iron plinths.

These people are totally crazy; believes that turntable owners who want a plinth are all as rich as Rockefeller.

At least OMA has taste, many manufacturers in the same segment does not have a taste in my opinion, at least their designers. 

And if you will look at the prices for OMA plinth on the first page then you will see it's no more than others asking for high-end plinth ($2-3k). Still too much for us, but quite OK for many audiophiles. 

They quoted me $10,000 for their new Hypo-eutectic grey iron plinth that weighs 150lbs.

Muhahahahahaaaa nice!! These people are totally crazy; believes that turntable owners who want a plinth are all as rich as Rockefeller.
Those who are rich buy new turntables from the cost of thousands and thousands of dollars without old turntables without plinths.

Maybe it is not 100% Cast Iron, i don’t know what is inside. But the Cast Iron plinth for SP-10R is their next plinth after great success of the Pennsylvanian Graphite Slate plinth which i like a lot (visually).

Super heavy weight is not what i’m looking for, but aesthetically OMA plinth are so nice. For the round turntable like Victor TT-101 or Denon DP-80 similar shape of the plinth is nice. For two tonearms it is probably overkill. 

Actually for TT-101 we only need a small ring to support the drive and a some kind of toneam pod, so it is not as big and heavy as the huge OMA plinth for Technics.

All i know is that Cast Iron is cheap in my area, i’m pretty sure it’s cheaper than wood.

BTW (slightly off topic) : regarding the arm pod i just noticed that one of them has been made from Phenolic Tube, it was mentioned in this review. Anyone familiar with this material ?

I am sure OMA thought about it, but my first issue with using cast iron for a plinth would be related to the possible effect of a ferrous metal on the function of the motor.  Theoretically, the iron surround could distort the magnetic lines of force around the motor and thereby suck out some torque.  Just something to ask OMA about.

@chakster    I am skeptical because I do not believe that cast iron is an appropriate material, rather I think it is only a "marketing operation" as I do not believe that a plinth must weigh a great many many and many kg.

I am convinced that we need balance in our choices without necessarily exaggerating on every accessory.

@chakster You could reach out to Robyn Wyatt in New Jersey Robyatt Audio.
He had one on demo at a NY audio show. It sounded decent.

@best-groove

 I'm skeptical about reading all these things.

Why? What you mean? 
In my opinion Cast Iron looks great, i have no idea is it better than graphite slate or wood, but i know for sure that Cast Iron in Russia is cheap. A friend made this decorative cedar bump for my balcony, it is a replica of the original 1956 missing bump, and it is made of Cast Iron. So i think i can ask him to make a Cast Iron ring for Victor TT-101 or even a small plinth (i hope it is not expensive).   

mmmmmmmmm ... also cast iron now? I'm skeptical about reading all these things.

Anyone can comment about sound properties of the Cast Iron plinth and this material in general ? New video appeared here, watch at 3:55

I am thinking about DIY iron cast plinth for my Victor TT-101.
The OMA is the only company that use Cast Iron for plinth, and this is their next one after graphite plinth.

Deal all, please have a look

This a new producs from OMA
Cast Iron plinth for Technics SP-10R  

Link published on https://twitter.com/oswaldsmill 

Great info here. I contacted OMA as @chakster  want's to use some of his iron cooking pots for a plinth. They quoted me $10,000 for their new Hypo-eutectic grey iron plinth that weighs 150lbs. Wait for review from Fremer DJ before you buy!

Has anyone tried upgrading the power cord of the SP-10 mk2 power supply ?

I did it on the power supplies of my SP 10 but I have to complete the restoration and I do not know yet if the sound could miglorate.

I have not used IEC sockets because I want to keep my power supplies as original as possible, the only cable that is quite compatible with the original power supply hole is the VDH Mainserver; I had to widen the fairlead and work a little for the passage but I did it.

Here

The VDH is deprived of the cladding under the transformer to make the internal cables reach the terminals.

That company is USA offering many different solution to clean metal (guns, knifes etc), i think some stuff works well for metal parts of the turntables etc 

Here is another copper cleaning spray

Wow.... much expensive.

I used this; € 3.50 and solve the problem.

https://s15.postimg.cc/ps3xcoa4b/Smacbrilla-rame.png

@pani A reliable audiophile friend of mine installed an IEC inlet in the SP-10 Mk2 PS and tried several high end PCs.  No difference.

Has anyone tried upgrading the power cord of the SP-10 mk2 power supply ? It comes with a thin captive lead. Changing it needs some work. Before I try that I would like to ensure that it really brings an improvement

@best-groove I used a common copper cleaning product and an old toothbrush because the mat is not exactly smooth but has micro grooves like vinyls
I insisted a lot and performed more passes but in the end the result was excellent.

After polishing, with a spray I gave a couple of light shredded transparent varnish.

Here is another copper cleaning spray
https://www.flitz.com/brass-copper-tarnish-remover/ 

 Dear Raul, the mat on my star sapphire series 3 was most assuredly the original felt mat. Perhaps the dealer glued it to the platter before he sold it to me, but for whatever reason it was glued to the mat, and the surface was a felt like material. Just for your information, it was only later, when I acquired much better sounding turn tables, that I discovered how muffled and recessed was the sound coming from the star sapphire, meaning no disrespect to current SOTA turntables. Even with vacuum applied.   The experience did not leave me believing that there was anything special about the mat on that turntable, except possibly that it was especially responsible for the unsatisfactory results. My next turn table was a Nottingham analog hyperspace. It ran rings around the star sapphire in every way. Even more so after I acquired a regulated power supply to supply AC to the Nottingham.

has anyone ever tried the Comback Harmonix mats?

Dear @lewm : The original SOTA mat has not that " felt like material ". The SOTA mat was on sale as an after market mat and goes glued ( self glued. ) to any TT platter, in that way the mat is part of the TT platter and not changeable: it keeps fixed there for ever. Another very good characteristic is that its spindle center hole is small diameter enough for the spindle form part of the TT/MAT part. The mat has no " play " around the spindle even you have to push it with care but enough pressure to install it.. It helps to damps the metal spindle too. Was very good thinking item other than its undisclosed build blend material. Recomended.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

Fortunately, the ambient temperature in most of our listening rooms probably does not exceed 1000°C.

I have the original box and original manual for my Micro Seiki CU-180 which i am using now. There is a sticker on the box with model number and they call it "MICRO GOLD DISC CU-180". The manual is in japanese. 

Here is more about gunmetal:
Gunmetal is a type of bronze — an alloy of copper, tin and zinc, originally used chiefly for making guns!  Proportions vary by source, but 88% copper, 8–10% tin, and 2–4% zinc is an approximation. Gunmetal, which casts and machines well and is resistant to corrosion from stean and salt water is used to make steam and hydraulic castings, valves, gears, statues, and various small objects, such as buttons. It has a tensile strength of 221 to 310 MPa, a specific gravity of 8.7, a Brinell hardness of 65 to 74, and a melting point of around 1,000 degrees Celsius.

Raul, I am surprised that in your post above, you seem to be saying that the platter mat should be "seen but not heard".  That's a good goal, but in fact we know that the platter mat is always heard, even if it is heard to be neutral, which is the way I would put it.  Can you say more about the SOTA mat?  I used to own a Star Sapphire Series III with vacuum, and as I recall, it had a felt-like material that was glued directly to the main body of the platter; it did not have a removable mat.  And of course one could not put a mat on top, because it would interdict the vacuum.

Ferrari, Thank you for pointing out that the MS mats are gunmetal copper, not pure copper.  I did not appreciate that fact, because I have never seen, much less owned, an M-S platter mat.  I did read that the Tenuto mat is also gunmetal copper, not pure copper. However, my recent experience with a true pure copper mat that I had custom-made for my Kenwood L07D is consistent with your observation that pure copper seems to sound superb, and I do not really know why copper seems superior to all other metal mats I have tried, albeit on turntables other than the L07D.  Except whereas Raul concedes that a metal mat may function to block EMI, which I think has a lot to do with its superiority on my L07D. 

In this case, the pure copper mat replaced the OEM stainless steel "platter sheet" (Kenwood's term for it) supplied with the L07D.  Copper is superior to stainless as an EMI shield, which may account in part for my experience with the L07D. Both mats weigh about 5 lbs; I did not wish to greatly exceed the mass of the stainless steel platter sheet in creating the copper replacement, because the L07D platter is partly supported by magnetic repulsion, and also because I am categorically opposed to using after-market mats that are very much heavier than the OEM mat on DD turntables that rely upon a servo mechanism.  It may be OK to do it, up to a point (the capacity to tolerate a very heavy mat without disturbing speed stability) , but that point is likely to be different for different turntables.  One would have to test the speed stability on a case by case basis using sensitive equipment, in order to feel certain that no new problem is created by a very heavy mat.  And this is in addition to putting stress on the bearing and thrust plate.  Just my 2 cents on that subject.

from what I read in many 3ads in the world the best mat for the SP 10 remains always its original .... little expense much performances.

Dear @ferrari275: """  a pure Copper platter mat's tonal characteristics are superior in.........................................................................................

aluminum alloy..........I recall it was thin anemic sounding, not at all musical ...."""


Tonal/anemic characteristics?, I can't understand why we are looking for a kind of sound in the TT mat when what we have to look is for an " inert /non resonant " mat that can damped and don't interfere coloring the cartridge signal.. Metal is resonant no matters its weigth and unfortunatelly resonances/vibrations colors the audio signal and steel is no different. In the aluminum AT the LP is " running "  on vacuum and the SOTA is non-metal ones. Normally metal is a bad material in TT/tonearms/cartridges and the like. As less metal in a home audio system as better its quality performance levels. No, we can't disappears metal material from audio items  and in some specific items is need it.

R.

Dear @downunder :  """  any other mat I have tried... """

Try to found out the ATs and original SOTAs and test it vs what you already have, I'm sure that even your P3 will be an improvement.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

LOL.......it's nice to read about mat when the title of the 3ad asks for plinth he he he.

@ ferrari275 

What does the pure copper mats do sonically that are heads and shoulders above the gunmetal copper alloy's like the cu-180?   in your opinion.

chakster, the only other mat on my radar would be a stainless steel type.  Weight is a factor not to be dismissed but imho, it's not everything.  The Cu-500 is still Gunmetal.  During listening, I quickly ascertained my AF pure Copper platter mat was heads above the MS Cu-180 Gunmetal Copper alloy, so I had no real motivation to seek out their other mat but perhaps I will buy one to try anyway per your recommendation.  To clarify, does anyone know if the SAEC SS-300 compromised of any stainless steel at all?  At only 870 g it must be a type of lightweight aluminum alloy, no?  I presume by comparison measurements provided at the time by Micro they were referring to weight, density and resonant frequency...ect.  I had the hardened aluminum alloy Oyaide MJ-12 years ago and as I recall it was thin anemic sounding, not at all musical so I sold it. 

.......mmmmhhh   perhaps the heavy weight does not mean everything.

@best-groove My good sir, welcome to the eccentric world of high end audio, nothing means everything! :)
 

This is very interesting, because the SAEC is a speciall alloy of only 870g in total.

.......mmmmhhh    perhaps the heavy weight does not mean everything.

@ferrari275 you said you tried the slim CU-180 (1.8kg), but try the thick CU-500 (2.7kg) if you want to compete with the AF (3.6kg). Or simply add SAEC SS-300 in this competition. Micro Seiki made comparison chart with various mats of that era, the closest to CU-500 (according to their measurements) is the SAEC SS-300. This is very interesting, because the SAEC is a speciall alloy of only 870g in total. 

lewm
"I would keep in mind that the "CU" mats made by M-S are expensive not merely because of their association with M-S but also because they are made of copper, which is very expensive these days." 

Slight correction.  Vintage Micro Seiki CU series (180, 500) mats were manufactured from gunmetal Copper alloy, which although not "cheap" by way of material is still vastly cheaper than pure Copper to manufacture.  The Tenuto mat = gunmetal Copper alloy as well, however, this company also used to make a pure Copper version at one point in time but is now discontinued.  After having owned a couple of CU 180's in the past and now an AF pure Copper mat (3.6kgs.), in my personal opinion, a pure Copper platter mat's tonal characteristics are superior in every way.  

@rauliruegas 

Raul - as you know, nothing is for certain in turntables.  The MS cu-180 definitely sounds better than the thick or thin technics mat or any other mat I have tried - fits like a glove as well.

 With the Pioneer Exclusive P3, not so sure. the P3 rubber mat is original and does things that no other mat has done on the P3. That said, nothing wrong with the sound the Tenuta is producing.

4kg SS mat is a definite improvement

you will need a good supply of thrust pad to use as a spare with all ncredible weight. lol

Dear @sbank : What I'm trying to say is that both: the original SOTA and ATs are even better for those TTs, that's all.

Good that you are enjoying your system day by day experiences.

R.

Yes, @rauliruegas To make a rhyme you could say Tran Van Tan is the man. 
BTW, I see your comment "Sp-10s needs not those kind of metal mats" but can tell you that in my system with the SP10mkII, EPA250 and the Signet 111E that I bought from you, the 4kg SS mat is a definite improvement and a number of listeners including respected audio manufacturers who heard it in my system all agree that's the case. FYI, I looked around for the AT mat prior to purchasing mine, but not too many of those around anymore, their big suggested footers too. Cheers,
Spencer

Yep, i just sent you PM here on audiogon about your request for the footers, check it.
Saec mat went to Miami today.

the world is really small  :)

I will check the mail.

Dear @downunder : Sp-10s or those japanese massive old designs as MS needs not those kind of metal mats ( other than blocking EMI if that’s a real problem in the TT. ).

The best mat for any TT is the original SOTA mat, yes the one TT manufacturer. .
I said " the original " because the designer of that mat gone from SOTA and never disclose the SOTA mat blend build materials and after that the other SOTA mats that were builded and even copy after market ones are way different.

Other than that great mat as @pryso posted the AT 666EX and the AT 665BX. Both better than any of the ones named here. Its vacuum hold down function makes real impprovements, I wiish my SOTA could came with that function.

Btw, @sbank that Vient Nam gentleman works truly fine, good. Now, I'm thinking to change the the metal drivers in my speakers bor a less resonance/more inert metal driver holder. Thank's for share that link. Every day is a learning day !.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

@best-groove

I see your SP10 II and from the picture I recognized some identical images on ebay ........ it is you who had for sale on ebay until yesterday the mat Saec 300?

Yep, i just sent you PM here on audiogon about your request for the footers, check it.
Saec mat went to Miami today. 

@sbank   Well,  I will go deeper by visiting the site better  ;)

@best-groove Yes, they are in Vietnam. FWIW, shipping to USA was fairly quick and not too expensive. Cheers,
Spencer

@sbank   good jobs.... the company if I have not read wrong is Asian?

@downunder

The Tenuto fits the SP10 mk3 and Pioneer P3 fine. Not as perfect as the cu-180 - but at least you can remove it without the need for suction cups :-).

I simpy flipped over the entire SP-10mkII to remove CU-500 or CU-180 easily without any suction cups.

It sounds excellent as well - have not compared to the CU-180 thou. the one I have is 2.2kg, so is heavier than the cu-180 - same weight as the CU-500.

CU-500 weight is 2.7kg, so it’s heavier.

Hi Chakster - I would love your CU-500 or another cu-180 but the cu-180 is up to 3 times more expensive and CU-500 3-6 times more expensive than the Tenuto.

Hey, yep, but you never know what you can buy on secondhand market. However, as i stated earlier, i’m more fascinated by the classic japanese high-end (especially in mint- condition).

I can only use my CU-180 on Luxman PD-444 and it’s a perfect match for the Luxman platter, no wonder, because the Luxman was made by Micro Seiki. Only 3 silicone or rubber dots muct be placed between the CU-180 and the platter to rise up the mat a little bit. The thickness of the CU-500 would be better match, but the CU-500 is extremely heavy for the motor of the Luxman PD-444.

https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/37422426_2339189316099222_7361459351321575424_n.jpg?_n...

For my SP10mk2, I had a custom machined SS mat 4kg, 292mm diameter and 8mm thickness made by Tran Van tan <tvan_tan@yahoo.com.vn> for $200USD. He is quite skilled at making a variety of metal turntable parts for vintage tables(e.g. Micro Seiki,) at reasonable prices and of excellent quality. I considered copper, ss and two layer combo of the two. The mass & height considerations led me to choose the lowest price option of the three, ss, which gave me great additional mass but not too much for the SP10mk2 and provided the height that allowed a wider range of VTA adjustment when using my EPA250 arm.
After @dgarretson brought his ss and copper mats over and we listened to each and both, we found about 5kg was max weight that we'd be comfortable with and in general the closer we got to that amount the better the sound in terms of LF performance.  

His work can be found here: https://vnav.vn/threads/tvt-analog-shop-chuyen-cac-phu-kien-ve-dia-than.30728/page-11#post-1426052

Cheers,
Spencer

@downunder 

yes I know the Torqueo mat but my opinion is that it costs too much.

I'm not willing to spend a lot of money on a mat.

Thanks best-groove.   That is not in Australia, but there are other copper cleaners - just a bit hesitant to use as don't want to remove the laquer finish, so will probably keep as is.

  The Tenuto fits the SP10 mk3 and Pioneer P3 fine. Not as perfect as the cu-180 - but at least you can remove it without the need for suction cups :-).
    It sounds excellent as well - have not compared to the CU-180 thou.  the one I have is 2.2kg, so is heavier than the cu-180 - same weight as the CU-500.
    Since you seem to be in Italy - have you seen or used the TORQUEO AUDIO COPPER MAT . That also looks high quality but more expensive than the Tenuto.

  Hi Chakster - I would love your CU-500 or another cu-180 but the cu-190 is up to 3 times more expensive and CU-500 3-6 times more expensive than the Tenuto.

  cheers
  

@chakster 

I seem to remember from an old mail with the producer that the diameter of the Tenuto mat was 294 mm.

I see your SP10 II and from the picture I recognized some identical images on ebay ........ it is you who had for sale on ebay until yesterday the mat Saec 300?